All things being equal, which would be the better 4wd to own, a 580E or 580K Phase-III? What if maintenance costs are priority over ultimate performance? As many of you have probably been following, I'm trying to find a good backhoe for personal intermittent use and not commercial production. Thanks
I would take the superK everytime. They are balanced very well, because of the transaxle. The drivetrain is nearly bulletproof.
Mitch, would you consider the standard 580K with phase-III transmission to be as good as a superK? My understanding is that there is preference for the earlier non-phase-III transmission due to it's simplicity of repair. However, if I'm understanding you and others, the phase-III transmission is stronger and more reliable. Is that a correct assessment? Garret
The K is the better choice if the condition of both machines are equal. the backhoe is not attached like the E , its just a better machine all around. I've seen them with over 12k hours still going .
I agree with Mitch504 and Dickjr. All things being equal (condition, maintenance, options, etc.), I would take a K phase3 over an E. Not to take anything away from a E as they are good machines, just that having operated and wrenched on both, my personal preference would be the K phase 3. I also seem to recall the transaxle on the K is an adaption of a Case Ag transaxle and in many aspects bullet proof.
Ok, I'm looking at an E, less than 2/3 the price, 4wd, 5000 hours, has had the reverser just replaced, all cylinders re-sealed, e-hoe, 4-in-1 bucket, enclosed cab. If it will do the job I need, I'm going to buy it. I recognize it's not as good as a K, but hope it would be maybe 80% as good. Resell when I'm done I know will be harder, but perhaps that will be out-weighed by the lower risk of high-dollar repairs, and well maybe I'll just keep it since it won't cost as much to begin with. Thoughts?
A phase III is a superK. same machine, 2 different names. An E is a good machine, I just like the superK better. Either one would be fine. 4wd is important if you are going to do a lot of loader work, not so much if it is going to be mostly hoe work. An extendahoe is great to have, as is a 4-in-1 bucket. You mentioned in the other thread winching out a backhoe, once you learn how, it is nearly impossible to stick one. You lift the front end with the loader, and the rear with the hoe. Then, you roll the loader bucket at the same time that you push or pull with the hoe. I have taken one that was sunk till the mud was flowing across the floor, and walked it about 50 yards on the buckets to get to hard ground.
I was under the impression that the standard 580K over serial 20000 was the phase-III transmission, same transmission as the superK, but not the same tractor as the superK? I understand that all Phase-III transmissions are more costly and difficult to repair? I did like the superK better, just sitting and riding in it, but I'm not sure why really, as they seemed very similar. I agree, however I ran into two problems where we had to winch. Maybe this will help clarify. 1) I was hauling loader buckets full or dirt down a slippery driveway (asphalt caked with clay), then making a sharp right turn to dump it over the side, in effort to build up the road side, which had only a few feet between curb and steep bank. On one of the loads, I went too far over the curb and couldn't back up, but because the bank was steep, there was no where to put the loader bucket down and push backwards. I could have put the backhoe bucket down and pulled, but I would have dug into the asphalt and torn it up. All 4 wheels spinning, and was just slipping more and about to go over the hill. Only thing to do was put down the stabilizers to hold it while I went and got the truck to winch it back up the hill. 2) I went down the slippery clay caked driveway, but couldn't get back up several times. Same situation, using either bucket would likely tear up the asphalt, plus it's about a 50-100 ft. distance, pretty far to try and walk the backhoe. I had both a Ford 555B 4wd, and a JCB 4wd, I can't remember which I was in, but probably the Ford though. By the way, that JCB was an awesome digging monster of a backhoe, seemed to do twice the work the Ford did. I know most don't like to own them, but I sure was impressed using it. Garret
Not going to get the 580E, although I think it would be a good backhoe, once a few things were repaired, especially with the 4in1 and extendahoe. Also, it was a Super E, for whatever different that makes. Repairs would not be bad, but prevented me being able to really test it out. Had a broken off fuel line between the distributor pump and an injector, so was only really running on 3 cylinders, and spraying some fuel. But, it ran good (for 3 cylinders), and everything seemed to work, all cylinders had just been rebuilt, lots of new hoses too. Almost new tires all around, as far as wear goes. The best tires of any used backhoe I've ever looked at, bar none. The Extendahoe was not on the machine, but looked to be very low hours, and was complete with cylinders and bucket. The front axle on this E was very tight, hardly any discernible king-pin play at all. MUCH better than any of the K's I've looked at, which so far all seem to have king-pin looseness. I'm back to finding a 580K 4wd. Still kicking myself that I somehow got snookered out of the good one that was just down the road from me.
Looked at another one today, and I'm starting to feel rather done with it all after this weekend. I've put 350 miles on the truck driving to see various backhoes, got dog bit, and still kind of pissed at the person that did me wrong on that original 580K I came here about. I'm starting to feel the wisdom of just sucking it up and plunking down $10K to rent one now that I'm a full week behind.
$10k Is that 2-3 months of rental? I might have missed it in a past thread, but what type of work or job do you have planned?
Might not be 10K, but I'll need one on and off for 6 months to a year, for the first part of the project. The major tasks are to excavate a large basement, and dig several deep holes for some foundation pad and piers. Need to go down 12 ft, preferably without removing any more material than necessary, which means as straight down as possible about 6x6 ft. Then I need to remove a couple dozen 75-100 ft. trees, level up the ground in many spots, and cut a road a couple hundred feet. Plus lots of moving of materials around the site. Can't get a semi or long straight truck up here, just 4x4's only, so there will be a lot of just hauling and loading materials. This is on the top of a ridge in the forest. I need a backhoe for a year and I just need to buy one and be done with it. I didn't realize how challenging it would be!
scott, I don't know if purchase rental is available in your area. But in Illinois it is quite common to rent machines with the option of having the weekly / monthly rental charges go as a credit to buying the machine. Dealers and rental companies both do it. It is a good deal because when you are done with it you can either let it go back or keep paying until it is paid off.
So I made the deal to get the 4wd 580SE. Just decided that it would do the job fine and it was cheaper, has enclosed cab, E-hoe and 4in1, extra buckets, good tires, most cylinders just re-sealed and a few extra loose new parts (always a good sign, right?). Garret
The effort it takes to buy a piece of equipment (and not get schooled) is very notable. Some (a lot?) of us who just love this stuff do it with epic enthusiasm. Wisdom says: 'work on keeping your mind right' and there's some other stuff about 'expectations' ....these help keep this an aspiration. Can you post a picture of your machine?
Thanks for the words of wisdom. I'm probably going to need it, as this one's partly a project, which is certainly ironic, as the last thing I needed is a project backhoe to help build a project garage to house my project everything else. I got to be crazy. However, this one seems ok once a couple little things are sorted. Every single backhoe I looked at needed something done to it, so in the end I think this one needs the easier things done to it. More or less. More on the more later, once I have it home. Yes, you'll be seeing photos once it's here. I just have to remember that everything's a challenge in life. Some things more than others, and that in the end persistence pays, if you don't croak in the process.
Finally got my backhoe home. It felt good to drive it up the steep twisty drive to the top. Now all is right with the world as I can see the beginning of my penultimate project happening soon. All I need to do is fix the right brake, the left steering cylinder, and change the buckets out. Oh, and about a dozen other things. It's good it came with extra parts! Garret
I had 580k, put 12,000 hour on it and not a lick of problems. Good machine
Need to go down 12 ft, preferably without removing any more material than necessary, which means as straight down as possible about 6x6 ft. Please rethink what you plan do do with this hole. Saving digging a bigger hole is not worth yours or any other life. Unless it is 100% shored it would be foolhardy to try to work in a 6' ft X 6' hole 12 ft deep. Cave in deaths are the number two cause of construction related deaths in the U.S. behind falls.
What am I planning to do with this hole? I've seen plenty of holes core-drilled to 30+ feet with no problems. Rebar and concrete went in just fine, no one was hurt. I don't see how anyone would get hurt in a hole if they are not in the hole? Are you saying it will hurt the backhoe bucket?
Should not hurt the hoe at all. Glad no one is going in the hole. Just see cave ins with bad results all to often in the safety newsletters we receive at work. A six ft square machine dug hole is a lot different than a round drilled cassion.
Just bought an 88 580se enclosed cab 4x4 does anyone have any idea what it might weigh doesn't seem to be much on the Web about them. Thanks
I had a 580k two wheel drive and it weighed approximately 8 tons. A 4 wheel drive I am guessing is about 1,000 pounds more. Yours is an SE but should be close to the same
here's the spec sheet. The last page will allow you to add options and their various weights: http://www.casece.com/en_us/Gallery...per-E/cce_LB_E Series_NK_specs_07-27-2009.pdf
If I'm right the E was made in Italy, K in USA. The E has the hoe mounted very differently to the chassis. I believe the K is a heavier tractor. Mine is I believe early (1988). It is a well built machine, but the open center hydraulics, like the E isn't near as smooth to operate as the Deere 410 series. Two functions at once gets squirrelly! Lift, curl, swing and crowd too close to a building, you'll need to fix siding. The Case K is short, with tight turn radius, uses a great torque converter design, and is sweet as a loader. The scorpion style of carrying the backhoe is great, but makes it very tall. If equipped with extend a hoe, they are very tail heavy, and benefit from loaded front tires, extra front counter weight, or toting a big boulder in the front bucket