I have had this machine a few months and used it for about 8-10 hours around the house, it already had this problem when I got it... in forward it seems to track basically straight... in reverse like back dragging it veers to the left pretty bad... if you skid to the right it seems fine... if you skid to the left it moans and wont do much... I checked the linkages and everything seems fine there... the brake doesnt seem to work I adjusted the nut on the linkage and didnt seem to matter either way the plate is tipped(I dont know which way is even suppose to be brake applied) the machine seems the same and it doesnt seem to apply the brakes at all.... Im not worried about the brake working, but I dont know if it has anything to do with the weak left side , I doubt it but I'm just throwing it out there.... I need to drain the "hydraulic" fluid because like a dummy I topped it off with actual hydraulic fluid,, instead of the motor oil it suggests in the engine compartment. is there a actual drain plug? where should I start on the weak left side. Thanks
Welcome to the forum wayne1234. :usa Are you talking about a Bobcat 533? Haven't worked on many of the small Bobcats, mostly 743 and up. It would be unusual for a drive pump or motor to work fine in one direction but not in the other direction. Not impossible, but unusual. I'd take a closer look at the linkage. I think what your saying is when you pull the drive levers fully back until they stop that the machine tracks to one side? And to keep straight you have to adjust the stronger direction to compensate? Is that pretty much it?
yep its a bobcat533... it moans on the left side, like when it is very cold out... or your trying to work a machine too hard ,,, but has no power,,, it starts to engage at about the same amount of travel on the stick ,as the other sides stick... just doesnt get any faster or more power... I actually watched the hydraulic valve that the sticks move and it seems to go all the way in and out ,, same as the other side... it almost acts like its in a bind but doesnt seem to be,,, if any of that makes sense... I may try jacking up that side and see what it does then...
But you were saying it only does this in reverse, right? Works fine going forward?
it seems fine if your going straight forward... if you try to skid turn it doesnt do well like that side has very little power
Ok, given that...that sounds like a bad motor. I'm just not sure about your machine, but most Bobcats have a case drain filter on the drive motors. You'll have 2 large hyd hoses going to a motor, then a smaller hose that has a cylindrical aluminum thingy connected in the hose, that's the case drain filter. If you remove it and take it apart, check for metal debris in the filter. If there's a considerable amount of debris, you've probably got a bad motor. If so, one thing you could do to verify, and I know it's a PITA, but you could remove the motors and switch them, see if the problem moves to the other side. Just a few thoughts from a jumbled up mess in my head.
Thanks, that defiantly gives me some direction. I am going to try and mess with it tomorrow...
well I got her up on jack stands and there isn't any binding... but I did notice something ,, I had a bobcat773 a couple of years ago... and I have used a buddys 763.. The way they all operated is if you wanted to "skid turn" right you full forward left stick, and full back right stick. This one (533) I noticed it will only let you go say 40-50% in opposite directions on the sticks and then it pulls the other stick along with it... nothing seems wrong with the linkages I think this is how it is suppose to work, can someone please confirm?.... And with the wheels off the ground I can clearly see the left side does "engage later on the stick movement... So if I try to "skid turn right" if i move the left stick forward all the way and pull the right stick back the right side is stationary at best or slightly still moving forward... hence not a tight turn seeming weak.... now if I only 1/2 way go left stick forward, and right stick full back the right side goes in reverse and the left side goes forward ,= tighter turn...... Is this how the stick controls are suppose to be on a older machinge meaning they will only let you go say 40-50% in opposite directions? meaning you can not physically have left stick all the way forward , and right stick all the way backwards?
Ok defiantly something is wrong... while on the jack stands ,the left side wheels I can turn by hand forward and reverse,,,,, no mater what the stick position,,, on the right side I CAN NOT turn the wheels by hand , no matter what the stick position... Clearly something is wrong ,, I assume the left side,,, again in the left side when I turn the wheels by hand I can hear hydro fluid sloshing.. sounds like its coming from the motor... Now I need some advise... Thanks guys
by the way it is very easy to turn the wheels like 2 fingers easy,,, so do you guys think it is the drive motor or in the hydraulics?
how do I get the freaking chain assembly's off I don't see a master link or something like that, I got the motor unbolted but cant seem to get the chains off the sprockets... help
I haven't worked on one of these little Bobcats. On the larger ones, the motor bolts onto what they call a final drive, which is a gear reduction box, and the final drive output shaft has the chain sprockets. So on these, you can remove the motors without messing with chains. Sounds like yours might be different. On most other Bobcat models, if you have to remove the chains, you have to remove an axle sprocket, either front or rear, whichever is easier (yeah, right), and in many cases you have to pull the axle far enough to release the sprocket. Once you have a sprocket released, you can remove that chain, then that will give you the needed slack to remove the other chain. It does sound like you have a bad motor if you can turn the wheels by hand.
Cant you just use a chain breaker then replace the chain link? It seems it would be easier then trying to pull an axel.
Yes I used a grinder and got a link out that way,,, The chains are a 60H standard stuff... Upon further inspection that "weak" left motor has been replaced before ... I would say in the last 2-5 years... it is a TRW Ross Gear code Z70 r 78 A, CODE MAE 24024 .... The older and must be original and working fine right side is a TRW Ross Gear couldn't make out first digit I think it is 093 84 A, code MAE 24033 Both have two same cast numbers of 3288034 & 3289602... They look the same and I assume that was just a newer replacement model... But I definatly am going to swap the motors to the opposite sides, I was going to today but after struggling with the chains and also a broke hydro line upon removal I just cleaned everything up,,, went and got a master link and dropped the hoses off to be made they said it will be ready in the morning.... you guys see any problem with the different numbers on the motors or is this common? since the weak left side motor is newer it has me wondering if there is a hydro problem.... guess ehen I get my hoses and get her back together we will see.. Thanks for your help Wayne...
If it turns out you do have a bad motor, you need to check those case drain filters coming from the motors. When motors grenade inside, they put out bits of metal. The hyd filter filters these fragments from the oil (yeah, change the hyd filter), but the case drain filters will catch fragments as well and need to be taken apart and cleaned.
where are the case drain filters? on the smaller hydro hose it is a normal hose with a 90 elbow into the motor... the hose connects to a "T" with the other sides small hydro hose it is a aluminum block "T" the last side goes to the back of the machine ...I did take it out thinking it was some kind of screen it is a plain block Also I wanted to get any debris out of the hydro lines from grease, and that is one of my bad hoses.... Anyways I was just messing with the motors, and noticed the right side "good" motorwhen I spin it by hand it has some tension and builds a little air pressure on the big outlets depending how i spin it.. nothing seems to come out of the small third outlet ... The "bad" left side is very easy to spin by hand, doesnt seem to build any air pressure by putting my fingers over the large outlets but it does spit some air out of the third small outlet... does that tell us anything? man I'm trying to get out of swapping out those motors only to pull them again , but if it has to be done then it is what it is ... Thanks again for your help
also do you think any big deal on the different #'s on the motors or is this common?
Again, I haven't worked on one of these "smaller" Bobcats. It seems you are describing the case drain from the motors and the two motors connect to a tee. That's not the way the larger Bobcats are. It's possible they don't have a case drain filter on your machine. You have two case drain lines meet at a tee, what hose comes off of the tee and where does it go? That would be completely normal on a good motor. You should feel air coming out of the small third outlet (case drain) on a good motor if you turn it by hand. Yep, I'll bet a dollar to a donut that's a bad motor. The case drain of any motor is to drain off any internal leakage that leaks by the close tollerance of internal components of a motor so the case of the motor does not build internal pressure from the leakage. Excessive leakage (air coming out the third hole) indicates the motor is trashed inside. Don't know anything about the motor numbers and what diff it makes.
after the case drains come together at the "T" a larger line goes back inside engine compartment up to the cooler, out of cooler to the front of the big pump housing ... filter seems to be later in the equation,,, how worried should I be? I guess it has been this way for a while before I had it , and I have used it this way for about 10 hours or so .. when I got it I did all the filters and a full service hoping it would change something it didn't... so what ever particles when it had its problems at first have been long gone ... when I pulled the old filter which was really old I did turn it upside down and let it drain in a pan looking for chunks or metal flake and it was really clean ...
That would be completely normal on a good motor. You should feel air coming out of the small third outlet (case drain) on a good motor if you turn it by hand. [/QUOTE] Do you mean I should NOT feel any air coming from the third small outlet on a good motor?
Well it appears that your machine doesn't have a case drain filter on the motors, that's nothing to worry about. The main hyd filter would be there to filter the system oil. I can tell what your wanting to know at this point..."do I have a bad motor?" I'm not there looking at your components, but I can only say if you have a motor that is removed from the machine, you spin the shaft of the motor by hand, you get no pressure build on either of the large ports when you put your thumb over the ports, but get air release from the small (case drain) port...you have a bad motor. I can't say this for certain...but that's pretty much the way it works for case drain motors.
Do you mean I should NOT feel any air coming from the third small outlet on a good motor?[/QUOTE] Sorry about that typo...on a "good" motor, you should feel "no" air coming from the small (case drain) outlet.
About the levers not being physically able to be moved to opposite positions from each other that's the way it's designed. On our Bobcat 732 the two levers are mounted to long sleeves on a cross shaft that goes from the left side of the machine to the right side. Then where the two sleeves meet they have a finger looking thing from one side reaching into a slot that's hooked up to the other lever. That way they're prevented from being moved to fully opposite positions... Probably the same on your 533... As Atco says, I also think that your motor is most likely finished... I noticed a lot of drive motors for different sizes of Bobcats on Ebay over the last few days so you might be able to find something there for a decent price. Hope I've been at least a tiny bit helpful...
Well I took the "bad" left motor into a local hydro shop. it is bad, grotor. is what they said and at first they thought they could get parts. but they cant... here is the delima.. the "new replacement motors have a higher rpm so if I only replace 1 it will go in circles they say... so there is a company on ebay (that is actually local to me)that sell the char lynn replacement motors that have the faster rpm. so I would need 2 it comes to almost $2000 for both with taxes... OUCH!!! I have of course looked on ebay and havent found that exact motor... The other monkey in the wrench is the machine isnt in the best of shape like I have to give the engine a shot of eather to get her going .. I am weary of putting too much into a hole... I know it must have some salvage value.. for the parts.. I have seen a local case 1816b that has a rebuilt gas motor for about $3000. which has only 700 hours. and thy say the meter is working... you guys know anywhere else I can look for a used wheel motor? or what other hydraulic motors would work ? Thanks
I'm thinking it would be fairly easy to adapt 2 new motors , but I dont see many that have a case drain... can someone help me figure out something that would work as far as the hydraulics go? it looks like the 4 bolt mount is common, and you could have a machine shop make the gear to shaft piece,, I actually saw the gears at TSC, when I got the chain link... Thanks for any input
After talking to a hydraulic supply company. thy are saying you dont have to run a motor that has a case drain. Does this sound right? They found the specs on the old motor and I would have to make up the sprocket part . but the motors are mega cheap.. it is a surplus center. so both motors would be 400 shipped.
it seems I would want a straight shaft not a tapered one so I cane use ay hub,,, unless it is a 1" tappered like the factory.. which that surplus motors werent... the search continues
Try calling Ron, the owner of Fluid Power International and see if he can give you some input. http://www.fpihydraulics.com/ Mayber even e-mail him some pics of your motor. Some Bobcat motors, like the Rexroth that's used on the T190, is Bobcat only. But there may be something avialable for your machine. It's worth a try.
At least yors moves , i bought a 60xt and after about 20 hrs my left side wont move at all , and being in northern sask cant get any help:Banghead Good luck
weak left side wish i would have seen this earlier I have 1997 763 and had the exact same problem. The dealers mech. said it either the pump or the drive motor. And to test he told me to get line plugs and he told me exactly which ones. I got them them and plugged the lines from the pump to the motor at the motor. after giving some stick to move the side the pump dead headed and tried to stall (exactly what he wanted me to look for). my next question can the pump be fixed and he said usually there destroyed inside. well about $950 and about 2 months to come from bobcat everything was running, thank god it wasnt the pump that would have been a nightmare waiting to happen. but hopefully this will lead you in the right direction if it happens again.
well got it going hopefully this will help someone in the future... I ordered a set of motors from a internet hydraulic surplus center... type that in and you will seethe results... I matched it up with the same hydraulic stats that the origional motors had .. they also have a case drain so no new pluming was required.. had to have the chanin sprockets bored to a straight 1 1/4 bore , instead of the tapered shaft the old motors had... it had a 2 hole mount so I had to re drill the mounting flange.. but it fired right up and works fine. these motors were $600 shipped and $100 at the machine shop getting the gears bored and a collar made to space out the gears. The motors are a M+S hydraulic modle MLHSYA 315 C4C burden has them... I did however have a ton of time in research it took me about 6-8 hours of disassemble on the old stuff, have at least 10 hours in research and about 8-10 hours on reseambly. The rpmon these motors is a touch higher so it is a little faster but not by much.. I also had to drill a drain on the chain wet oil sumo because the motors do not fill in the hole oil tight like the original ones did I am using motorcycle chain lube on the chains now which is what my case 1816b does from the factory, plus this is not used commercially on a daily basis.. my machines may see only a few hundred hours a year on them... Here are some of the specs I found on the origional MAE Motors 19-20 GPM 190 RPM at 20 GPM 8200IN LBS torqure 3000PSI max cont 4000PSI max peak... these figures helped me decide which motor to get... Let me stress this is not for the faint of heart . but the alternative is $2600 in parts from the bobcat dealer. and I was willing to take the risk. you may not want to.I have used it now and everything works great.. now I have 2 skidsteers because I did buy the case I talked about earlier... Just like when you got your first one you find reasons or chances to use them both or when someone borrows 1 you still have something ... Thanks for the input it defiantly helped me and hopefully this will help some one in the future...
Also I have the one good origional motor the at was on the right side it is going to go up for sale so hopefully I can recoup some of my money anyone on here need/ want something like that before it goes to ebay?.. The other "bad motor has also been reassembled but needs a new rotor which isnt available but the shaft and housing are good if someone has a broken shaft or housing... I know I would have paid a pretty penny for these when I was looking .. Ill hold on to them for a couple of weeks before I put em up for auction...
Good to hear you got 'er up and running again! Sounds like it was quite a bit of work! One thing about the sump though, the axle bearings are lubricated by the oil in there as far as I know so you may need to do something in that department... I'm not trying to be a spoilsport or a prophet of doom, just trying to keep you from having issues in the future after all the work and time invested...
yeah I also used the chain lube on the sxle bearings.. I figure with the low rpm related to a bobcat instead to a motorcycle chain .. the lube should last a while and I will grease them like the joints every few runs , since my top plates dont need to be oil tight now I can easily remove them... spray some lube and go on.