Hello, I am doing a flush and fill on my 1998 555E and I am having trouble figuring out the type and capacity. My manual states on page 1-156 in the cooling system section it states that with a cab (mine has a cab with heat) the capacity is 4.2 gallons. On page 1-107 in the engine intro section it states 6.3 gallons and makes no reference to the cab or not. For me, I have flushed the system with distilled water so I need to know the capacity to add the correct amount of concentrate to get the mixture correct. Also, for the coolant type, in the cooling section of the manual on page 1-156 it states to use water 50%, Antifreeze 50% and if the recommended coolant is not used you must add 5% of the FW 15 SCA additive package. The manual states that this is a wet sleeve engine so it needs the wet liner protection. In the engine intro page 1-107 the manual states to use a low silicate ethylene glycol anti-freeze 50% and distilled water 50%, Ambra Agriflu NH 900 A coolant. I cannot find any info on this coolant. When I called Peak technical support they recommended their Fleet Charge, a low silicate, nitrate type, ethylene glycol based formula that is precharged with SCA's. I bought this, I also have on hand Shell Rotella ELC which is what I bought to add 1 gallon to the system when I first bought the machine. After my research, I do not think it is the right stuff. It does not have SCA's, nitrates, or silicates which I believe I need because the manual states I need "low silicates" and an SCA additive if not using New Holland Coolant. I am thinking I will be fine with the fleet charge but am curious if that is what the machine calls for as I cannot find info on the NH900A coolant, I would like to put in what is recommended. I am not sure about the capacity, the way I am flushing it would be nice to know. Every time I drain the rad and refill I put in about 3.5 gallons, which would leave .7 gallons left in the engine and heater core if it was a 4.2 gallon capacity or 2.8 gallons left in the engine and heater core if the system is 6.3 gallons. Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
I called the dealer, which is probably what I should have done in the first place. The parts guy stated that the antifreeze the book calls for is CNH part 73344406, according to a website I found the coolant is ethylene glycol, low silicate, and pre-charged with SCA's. So, the Fleet Charge should be an OE equivalent. He also stated that the capacity is 6.34 gallons, does this make sense that after draining the rad and getting 3.5 gallons out that 2.8 gallons would be left in the block and heater core? I am not familiar with working on heavy equipment or diesels it just seems like a lot.
That is a good recommendation. I would have enough on hand to fill 7 gallons....the extra can be spare as needed, if there is any. Don't buy it from NH... over priced and same as the peak you pointed out. Do not mix the stuff you previously purchased with the peak. The peak or equivalent is what you want...any name brand precharged heavy duty is good.
Thank you for information and advice. I really appreciate it. Fleet Charge it is, I will add my concentrate (3.15 gallons or 1/2 of capacity) and top off with distilled water, then check my mixture after running it. This usually works well for me. Thank you!
There was no ELC when they wrote that manual. Either ELC or SCA will work fine, but don't mix. I don't think you have 2.8 gallons left in the block and heater core. There should be a drain plug to drain the block, but ever without it you'll get most of the water out. If in doubt, add two gallons of concentrate and if you can see the level, start it, mix it for a couple minutes, then test it and go from there. If you can't see the level after two gallons, then add one of distilled water, then concentrate until you can see the level.
There is a drain, but they recomend removing the lower hose to get more out...I would do both.
I would park it with the front end in a hole to drain after the flushes, I still can't believe there would be more than a gallon left.
Thank you for the clarification on the ELC and SCA. It makes sense, they are both designed to do the same thing (protect the wet liner of a diesel engine) but just a different way.
Thank you! I was not aware of the block drain bolt by the oil pump. I ended up using the hose that goes to the plastic resivour, I tried to use the petcock on the radidator but could not get it loose. The large hose made quick work. I ended up running about 33 gallons of distilled water through the system. I am not sure when it was last serviced and didn't want any mixing. The coolant was orange that came out.
So, I ended up putting the 3.15 gallons of concentrate and about a half gallon of water, then another half or so while running the first test run. I will test the coolant mixture after a couple weeks of running and report back. It was a success, the new thermostat is now working and I replaced the plastic reservoir as the cap would not tighten and it is supposed to be under pressure. Hopefully, it is all set now.
Thanks for reporting back...nice to know you are all good! Others with similar units on here have had to replace the coolant reservoir as well. I opened mine this morning to add a bit, and it was under pressure.
I usually put in a gallon of antifreeze then a gallon of water and continue to full. Easier that trying to calculate how much in needed
I keep at least one empty jug around and mix it before pouring it in. I may go a little rich to compensate for any water left in the block. It doesn't get that cold down here.
Pre mixed anti-freeze is a good choice for some people because it has the correct water added to it for a cooling system.
The problem was he thought there was as much as three gallons of water left in the block, so he'd need to drain that, or use concentrate.
Yes, I kind of rolled the dice as I needed to do something. The 6.3 gallon figure seemed to be the predominate number. I usually flush the system multiple times with distilled water and assume that there is a significant amount left in the system even after "draining," at least this has been my experience in automotive work which I have some experience in. Then, I add half system capacity in concentrate and top off with distilled water. This has always worked perfect for me .... except when there is a discrepancy about system capacity ... then it all goes down hill! Thanks everybody for your advice.
I bought some pre-mix Prestone one time and it read weak on my hydrometer. I check every time I mix one gallon of distilled water to one gallon of concentrate and it ALWAYS reads -32F so I know the hydrometer is accurate. I don't need it any stronger than zero but I felt cheated so I never bought another gallon of pre-mix. Not sure if the Fleet Charge is available in pre-mix anyway.
All the principal Peak coolant products for diesel engines including conventional SCA, nitrited ELC, & nitrite-free ELC are available pre-mixed AFAIK. https://www.owi.com/commercial/brands/final-charge/heavy-duty-coolants
I need to do the same with my 555E but didn’t realize how expensive antifreeze is nowadays. Sheesh.
Yes it is crazy, like oil!! Another reason to buy the concentrate and a $1.00 gallon of distilled water.
After reading this string, I'm glad I am independently wealthy...
If you think antifreeze is expensive, then look at some of Nige's pictures here, post #20 and explanation in the last paragraph of #19: HeavyEquipmentForums Somewhere else he's posted similar pics of engines from a company that ran recycled coolant.
Do you think the rust and poor condition is a solely function of using low quality tap water / coolant or an example of the superiority of ELC? Maybe a little of both?
I looked at the Peak stuff that was posted above and it seemed to be roughly half the price as concentrate. So in a sense it’s about the same price for 2 gallons total as it would be for the concentrate + distilled water. This seemed odd too as that usually ain’t the case. I guess I will have to see what is readily available in my area.
Yes...............
Both, personally I think well maintained SCA is as good as ELC, but we all know coolant is not well maintained, so ELC is better. Nige has strongly suggested Cat ELC as the best, with Peak Final Charge as similar (peak makes antifreeze for Cat and others). Beware that Final Charge is no longer one product, the old one is "Global" and now there's "Pro series" which is POAT (phospated) and a NOAT version also (nitrated that may have been around for a while).
AFAIK Peak's parent outfit OWI still manufactures Cat ELC. Whether it is identical to the corresponding Peak product I'm not 100% certain. Peak's product line is confusing - to me at least. With Shell products it's easier to tell the difference. The original nitrited (NOAT) product corresponding to Cat ELC is RED. The newer (POAT) nitrite-free product recommended for a lot of on-highway diesel engines is a GOLD colour. The "original" SCA-based phosphate-free antifreeze/coolant is PURPLE. https://www.shell.us/business-customers/lubricants-for-business/products/shell-antifreeze-coolants/_jcr_content/par/textimage.stream/1612294525235/ed32a958b5f716828bc0263e249fbc27490a294c/rotella-elc-nf-product-brochure.pdf
At least in the US, Peak's SCA product is called "Fleet Charge". And "Final Charge GLOBAL" is nitrite free, so a different product than "Final Charge NOAT" which I had never seen before making that post. Final Charge global has been common, now both global and "pro series" are side by side at Walmart etc. Fleet charge (sca) is common in hardware/farm stores.
Hi I just purchased a cat 1986 416 backhoe. It came with no manual so I found a owner operator manual for a 1990 cat 416 backhoe online and I’m waiting for it to arrive. Can anyone tell me if many changes were made on the 416 between 86 and 90 that might change the way I service and operate the backhoe
So now with this ELC being added to the conversation here, should we be purchasing ELC or SCA antifreeze for our 555Es?
Use whichever you prefer. As Delmer pointed out earlier the difference between the two is that ELC is maintenance-free where a system using SCA does require some attention to keep it in tip top condition.
Ok so if I change all the fluid in my machine as I plan to do in a few weeks if I go with ELC then I’m good to go? Nothing to worry about since ELC covers the wet sleeves also?
Correct. Personally I would suggest to use the ELC with the nitrite-based additive package, aka NOAT. It seems as though the nitrite-free POAT ELC is recommended more for on-highway than off-road engines from what I've seen up to now.
Thanks Nige.
What in the world have I gotten myself into....
This must have somehow got mixed up in the middle of a different issue. Two questions Jim: 1. What is the Serial Number of your machine.? 2. Do you have an image of the manual you bought online.? There should be a reference number (e.g. SEBUxxxxx) at the top RH corner of the front cover. What is that number.?
Fun, headaches, more fun, empty bank account, more fun, second job, more fun, anger, fun, hatred, even more fun, and so on……