Got the machine stuck in mud deep up to hubs in front, a huge struggle to get out. After that something is tweaked in the front; the steering turns ok, but, the machine won't turn, like the front end is lifting and weight is mostly in back. Don't know if something is bent under there. I thought of trying filling the tires with water, or?? Help!
You check you Diff. Lock? If you were using it. it might still be stuck engaged? My best guess because I'm not really understanding what your Trying to say. Are you sliding the front? Or front wheels won't turn? I'm guessing this is a 2WD machine? Tom
Um, well it is a 2wheel, and I am a real dummy about it, except that I was able to fix most of the leaking cylinders, removing and taking to Parker last year. My husband had it for 20 yrs; after he passed, it sat for 10. Been having fun learning to run it, digging out drain ditches etc. So back to the current problem, the front wheels roll and turn, but it's like they slide sideways; differential lock?? Not too sure , boy I would kil for an operators manual! I am gonna go out there and try the pedal to see if it makes a difference, (little round pedal on the floor at right?) The next fun thing is trying to get the cylinder out of the inside of the extendahoe (leaking), got the hoses fixed, After getting a huge hydralic oil bath!
Exactly, that has to be the differential lock. Try jabbing the pedal a few times, maybe look at the linkage to see if mud or debris is jammed in there somehow. It's supposed to retract and release on it's own once the wheels stop spinning, but it will hold if you're constantly turning the same direction, because the torque is still holding on the lock. Do a figure eight while jabbing the diff lock pedal if all else fails. For future reference, apply the diff lock pedal BEFORE a wheel is spinning, can be moving, just not one wheel spinning. Also, use the front bucket tilt to push you out backwards if you get stuck. If the diff lock is stuck internally it gets harder, but it's still doable.
Wow, just went out there and started it up, and the diff pedal won't move at all, probably jammed up, now time to dig in and see what's under there, be back soon, thanks a lot.
Here is a link to the book you want. But please don't kill me for it ! http://files.minnpar.com/partbooks/BACKHOE MANUALS/CASE (CNH) BACKHOE MANUALS/CASE 580 SERIES PARTS MANUALS/CASE 580C/CASE 580C OPERATORS MANUAL (COMPRESSED).pdf
I was hitchin a ride in a backhoe moving from one job to the other, dumbass me puts my heel on the diff lock, we roll up to an intersection and go straight across into someone's lawn! oops! Operator laughed at least.
Sorry to hear about your husband. Does the pedal look depressed?(close to the floor) If it is it needs to come back up. Put the rear stabilizer legs down raising the rear wheels a few inches off the ground. With machine running put it in forward gear at idle. Try to pull up on the button and see if it will come up. If it stuck hard, shut machine off and try tapping it up from underneath. Tom
The pedal is about 2 inches above floor, and won't budge. It's so hot out there, I gave up, but going to crawl under and take a look. What if its all corroded inside, I know the brakes are in there too, it stops but not too good, and have to jam in both pedals on the right and the left pedal (clutch?), which seems all connected. Does the wheel have to come off to fix it?( if so I'm doomed) but on the other hand there are two big brand new tires for it out in the garage and the tire company toldme $150 to come out and mount them. So while they are off, Might be good time to fix.
"Does the wheel have to come off to fix it?" No. Not for the Diff or brake work for that matter. On the right side brake housing is another smaller housing attached to it With the lever and rod. Remove the rod cotter pin and six bolts. Five of which are hex head, and one Allen head. It will then slide off if the gear collar is free. At least you should be able to pry it away enough to spray some Penetrate oil in there. Be careful Brake dust and rust will fall out too. A mask would be a good thing. You'll see once you get under there. Tom
Wow, I canhardly wait, going out there before t heats up to tackle it. Does the floor plate have to come off, or is it all done undeneath.
All from underneath. Good Luck Tom
Help (again)! What a battle getting under there, ( I'm too fat these days), but got the bolts off the cover, and it only moves out part way and hangs there, and the collar (found the parts book which showed this). This collar does not move?? Is it supposed to slide? Is it jammed tight? I was going to try to bolt it back together, but it is spring loaded, and may not be able to. Was hoping to be able to do some more work with it, on my drain ditch situation, even if the turning problem isn't solved.
Once the cover bolts are backed off, it should slide off the splines on the shaft. I'm not going to suggest what the issue could be right off, but the whole assembly comes off. Is the machine sitting level where there shouldn't be any load on the rear wheels? It could be bound up because of this. You can run the machine without it if you do get it off.
Thanks for your reply, The cover and fork are out about 4 inches, and swivel up and down but the collar part going into the brake housing doesn't move at all, so does this mean the lock is jammed? If it is bound up, can it be fixed?
Unfortunately, mine is back together so I can't look at the parts. The splined collar should just slide off the shaft, but there may be one or some of the parts that have broken and are preventing it from coming out. One of the more experienced guys that have run into this when they were working on these tractors should jump on here and give you some advice. Have a look at the parts diagram and see if you can account for the various pieces. This would help in understanding what is still in there. Good Luck, I am travelling today and won't be back on here likely until at least tomorrow when I get home.
Thanks again
The gear collar is stuck on the shaft from rust/crud. I thought you can rotate the lever as you pull the cover and The shift fork will roll out of the collar. Been many years and My memory is not what it used to be. If you want to go back together for now, you need to reach in with a small Screw driver and roll the ends of the spring around so as you push the cover Back on The ends rest on the brake housing and load the spring while you start a bolt. Back in the day I removed all my Diff. collars for this and other reasons. You can control wheel spin and gain as much traction by using the spinning wheel brake pedal. Your so close I would get the cover off, the free up the collar. Tom
Put an outrigger or two down, get at least one wheel just a shade off the ground so you can rock it back and forth a bit while alternating on trying to get the collar to back off. Also, should go without saying, but you don't want it up as high as it will go, just an inch or so so the wheel can spin (once they unlock) is more than enough and then be very careful when under there, as you never know when a hose or some fitting will feel like letting go.
Thanks you guys for all your info. Working up my courage to dive back in. (Still hurting from the last two trips under there!). So if the spring loaded fork gizmo comes off, then the collar with the groove needs to come out too? If the collar is out, will it steer normally? If it's all rusted inside there can it be fixed?
Yes, that collar is what slides back and forth to un/lock the differential, so it should move freely and just pull straight out. These are from my 580C here. If the collar is completely removed it will work normally, though you'll want to reinstall the cover so no mess gets in there. If it worked before it froze up, barring any major damage done, it should free up and come out of there.
Thanks for your reply. I went out there and got the cover and lever off, but not the collar, it is in there tight. Tried tapping witha hammer and around punch tool, really awkward to do, so if it's really frozen in there does the brake cover need to come off next?
Start or keep spraying some penetrate oil on the splines. You don't really want to pull the brake cover yet until all else fails. It's heavy and you have to deal with the Hyd. hose and park brake rod. Which are most likely froze too. Maybe find a bent bar or better someone with a small jaw puller. Hook into the fork grove and pry, or with a puller you push against the shaft and it pulls the collar off. You did raise the rear wheels off the ground a little with the stabilizers as mentioned? Does help. Shame your so far away. Tom
Go back to RDC's post #19, lift one wheel of the ground an inch or two and turn it forward and backward, really hard by hand or really soft with the engine. If you have a helper, one person can watch the collar while the other moves the wheel by hand. That should show you what is stuck tight and where the problem is.
Have a look at the 3rd picture that RDC posted. Its shows the collar with the inner splines to go on the smaller diff shaft and the large splines on the inside of the collar that slide onto the big side gear splines. If you have the manual or a parts book, you can see how it goes together. There isn't anything holding it there, except for dirt or corrosion and the possibility that there is still load on either the side gear or the diff shaft. I'm with catskinner on leaving the brake as a last resort. a small puller and decent penetrating oil should do the trick. Try not to put too much of any type of penetrating oil on at once to avoid contaminating the brake linings if they aren't already oiled from seal leaks. Once the 580CK, the brakes are fairly simple and only work with the mechanical linkages from the pedal, so no hydraulics to worry about. Its all fairly simple and relatively easy to repair when you have it a flat clean location. Be patient, you'll manage to get it apart eventually. Over the past year, I had mine apart with pretty much every piece in my hands. I've been searching for the pictures of the brake and diff lock work without success so far. I'll post when I find them.
Taking a break from it for a few days. Last time I was out there, I raised up the back wheels a few inches, turned on the motor shifted the lever forward and backward, I could see down there that the collar with the groove was turning both directions. Seemed real sluggish though. I remember out there before in the past when I had it up in the air to dig, I'd forget to put the shifter in the center and one wheel would spin real fast. So the next round is to try to get that collar out. So if it comes out, will the steering get back to normal, or could there be further trouble there?
Once you get the differential unlocked it will be back to 'normal' though it's still working exactly as it should with it locked. As others have said a gear puller would be the best thing to get it off there as it will pull straight out on the collar versus any prying, but as long as long as you can do that around the collar, not just in one spot, it should also pry off of there.
There could be further trouble, especially if that collar isn't engaging the inside cogs but the wheels won't turn separate still. If the collar is locked to the inside cogs then the issue is why did it suddenly lock there? We suggested raising ONE wheel and rocking it because that will put shock to those cogs from different directions, hopefully helping pop it loose, or as least show where it's stuck if you can look at it and rock at the same time. You can always put it back together, maybe even leave the parts off, if you NEED to get some work done now.
The collar came out!!! It had some rusty gunk on it. Waiting for the battery to charge up. Now next, should I raise up one wheel and work it back and forth? Or??? I am looking at the parts book that shows a cutaway view of it but still confused about it. If it's not any better, I'll just put it back together and try to use it. Turning it around will be fun, using the backhoe to lift and pivot, I did that when I got stuck before, hope it doesn't wreck the machine.
You can check by raising one wheel and it should spin by hand or machine with Other still on the ground. You can put the cover on without the gear and be fine, just no lock anymore. You can control wheel spin by using the brake on the spinning wheel,(applying brake Will make other wheel pull). Or you can clean everything up and make sure it moves freely, use anti-size And reinstall.
!!!!!I can't believe it!!!!, just went out there and started it up, put it in gear and drove it forward and Turned left and it turned perfectly, then went right, and it turned perfectly, then reverse, perfect again! I can't thank all you guys enough for all your help, never in a million years could have figured that out,still want to learn more about the other stuff on there. I dread something going out on the engine, or electrical. Really need to figure out all oils and grease stuff too. The most fun thing was getting the hydralevel cyl off, had a really stuck pin, I tried Kroil, pb blaster, etc, but finally used acetone and atf, which worked, but then I lost the rod out there in the swamp. Went to fresno to meyers Ward, and they had the exact pin for it. They have acres and acres of tractor stuff, just like a big toy store!
Good news on getting that out, I'd hand wire brush the shaft and gear and clean off as much gunk as you can, then slap on some good waterproof grease and put it back together, the rust removal will add a little more clearance to the fit. Good grease will keep it slick and happy!