I just noticed a new leak today or an old leak that got worse today. It is on the largest rubber hose that goes to loader control valve. The hose looks relatively new but there are 4 other hoses in front of it that block access to it. I would like to have a new hose on hand before I disassemble everything. The end going into the control valve looks like an odd fitting, not jic like the other end. The odd looking end is the one leaking. Anyone know what that fitting is called and what size it is. I Have been using this new to me machine for the past three weekends to dig a basement for a 1600 sq' house and 900 sq' garage. It is costing me almost as much for hydraulic oil as diesel fuel I have a lot more work to do with it I just hope it can get the job done without too much down time.
Since the return is steel I'm betting you're talking about the pressure line from the pump, part # D73319, says it's 14" long. Sounds like you just need a new O-ring for the valve end, it's a straight thread O ring boss fitting, part # 167266, it's a common item, a -912 O-ring 90 durometer. Your average O-ring kit will not have this, it's an ORB O-ring, has to be a -912 N90 or Viton preferably. Remove hose, clean everything, install new O-ring, install hose making sure the O-ring end is tight and does not loosen when you connect the other end, put a bit of a clockwise tension in the hose from the far end then snug the JIC nut, this will help keep the O-ring tight. You may find it helpful to somehow seal the reservoir up to keep all the oil from draining out, I don't recall if there's a breather? Sometimes a plug in place of a breather or a sandwich bag and some electrical tape or a zip tie over the breather work wonders. I've got a vacuum transducer that works fantastic for minimizing oil loss on small repairs.
That hose is around $50.00 at a case/caseIH dealer. You know the battery box swings out also by removing the bolt in the cover. That hose may have had a twist in it to start with also and with the hyd oil pressure caused it to flex and start leaking, or they did not get it tight if it was replaced before, or the wrong o-ring installed. The worst case would be to find it cross threaded or a hare line crack in the o-ring seat or thread area. You may need some of the other o-rings due to the age while removing those hoses and fittings to get your wrench on it. They may also be hard as a rock and crack after reinstalling.
I will try o-ring and let you know what I find. I have another day of digging before I take it apart unless it really lets go.
LAN>> you blow my mind with everything you post..Lol How the, HE, double l tooth picks .. do you know EVERYTHING.??? Lol
I don't, I just act that way, sorry, lol. Mostly access to online parts diagrams and some very broad but not at all deep ancient experience with a variety of machines of every make, model, color and nationality. And as our good friend Nige sez, a memory like an elephant... but that part is fading I fear. Unlike you and many, many others on this forum, I never really found my niche and excelled at it, but I try to help where I can, or add a bit of zany humor if nothing else. And by the way, we refer to you as the guy that knows everything about injection systems, so there, lol :notworthy
Excellent advice, a machine that age, you would probably be money ahead to replace all the O-rings in that area like you say.
6 days on 36 yr old backhoe moving more rocks than dirt. 20 gal diesel 5 gal hydraulic oil, 2 hydraulic hoses. Excavation for house complete. 7th day the machine rested for fathers day and bass fishing just opened . Let me know if I have broken any records. I am going to try to dig trench for hydro and big-o then address the leaks.
Put a couple drops of oil on the O-rings when installing them. A cat mechanic told me a long time ago O-rings should never be installed dry.
True dat....
Finished Footings this week and moved about 60yds of gravel with the old 580c
Just noticed today one boom cylinder has been welded check out the following pics and let me know if I should be concerned about it.
Looks a lot like a seagull **** upon it, but all things being equal, run it until it breaks in my opinion.
580C no Juice. Started backfilling on the weekend. I tried to start the tractor but I had left the key on for a week and the battery was dead. I boosted it no problem fuel guage and volt guage started reading normal alt and oil light went out used it for an hour or so and shut it off. 1 hour later tried to start it and it wouldn't do anything no idiot lights no guages tried to boost it still nothing just like the key was in the off position even with booster cables hooked up. I jumped the selenoid on starter and it fired right up and ran fine with no gauges or lights of any kind. Any idea what I shuld look at first?
Fuses of course, ignition switch, and I seem to remember there may be a power relay behind the dash?
I was looking at a wiring diagram and this machine has circuit breakers and relays. Is there a way to test these? I can't find any simple fuses.
You will need to check the one above the starter, should be 40 amp, check both poles for current. You can jump those also and see if the dash relay clicks with the key being turned on. Most of the others in the dash area are for the cab and lighting. You should have current at the starter lug, to the 40 amp, thru the harness connect, engine to main frame, key switch, relay switch in dash. I would check all grounds, battery to frame/engine/and also cab along with the hot starter cable at the starter for a loose condition. Remember you have to have the 12 volts at the key switch to make the relay switch work when the key is on. Does your machine still have the black push button switch to start it ?. You can also jump the relay switch in the dash and try to start it.
Or cross the solenoid and positive together on the starter, be careful it is not in gear. Sometimes the relay switch doesn't work, but do try that first as sheepfoot mentioned.
It has push button starter, It will start if I cross solenoid and pos. I will check 40 amp above starter on the weekend. This spring I re-routed the ground cable from cab to starter as the cab was pretty rusty where it was grounded and slow rolling over.
looks like a need the 40amp circuit breaker. I only have power on one side of it. I may need a battery too it is reading 11.6v with a solar charger on it for a week.
If you only have power on one side - while the button is pushed and it's not just the connections are bad - I'd say change it. If your rig sat for a week with the key on, I'll bet you need a new battery, too.
The breaker above starter was a 20 amp hooked up backwards and no good. I switched it out for a $9.00 54-240p 40 amp Pollak breaker from Carquest that bolted right on, charged battery up and it fired right up. Ready to backfill.
Good to see you fixed it!!!.
Can the voice of experience offer some advice? If your circuit breaker will carry more current before tripping than the wires attached to it will carry before melting the insulation off the ensuing fire can be annoying and very costly. In my case it was a 100 amp breaker one of my assembly techs grabbed and installed where a 75 was supposed to be on a brand new custom machine, when something shorted luckily all that was lost was the entire wiring harness and some paint.
The test for the battery is if it will start after sitting for a few days. I'd leave that solar charger on it for insurance if you're going to need to use it before you find out.
Battery is still starting. I blew a hose on extendahoe just before I was going to hoist 1200 lb beam into place. I am glad it happened before and not during. Not a fun job to fix. After getting extendable dipper apart I decided to change both hoses and have cylinder repacked because it always leaked down after a couple days. Got it all back together, beam in place and extendahoe still leaks down noticeably overnight if it is up in the lock position. Is there someplace else that could cause it to leak down? I don't want to take it apart again.
Check the ( cup, canister ) or what ever it's called on the bottom of the control valve. I was about to repack my boom cylinder because it was leaking down but discovered that cover was loose hand tightened it and the boom has stayed solid ever since.
The cap holds the centering spring on the end of the spool, with it loose the boom would drift down, may need to replace that lower and upper oring on that spool down the road if it starts leaking.
Thank you for that info Sheepfoot I know it solved my problem but was unaware as to why. In the past I've taken many apart on older machines ans cleaned out the crud and replaced the 0 rings but was unaware it would cause the controls to drift.
Caps are tight still drifts down must be a spool problem. I need to change fuel shut off cable. Does anyone know how to remove the cable from the shut off arm? If I pull the arm up by hand it will hit the stopper and then it feels like the arm is slipping past the stopping point.. I think this is what caused my cable to kink. Anyone know how to tighten the linkage so it doesn't slip? I could probably figure this stuff out if pump was off the machine I hope it can be fixed on the machine.
Picked up a set of forks for the 580c. I don't have a welder on site or a truck big enough to float it to my place so I purchased 4 bolt on jeep tow hooks rated for 10,000 lbs each. With a bit of grinding to widen out opening to fit the 2" round bar they worked nicely. I still haven't figured out how to change fuel pump shut off cable any ideas?
If your injection pump is a Stanadyne/ Roosa Master.. the s/o cable is held onto the lever w/ a screw thu an eye. The cable slides thu the eye and is held in place by tightening the screw. some have a scr.driver slot and some have a hex head for a wrench.. either one will come loose w/ a pair of pliers.. 90% of them are bent or curled on the end of the cable so it probably wont just pull straight out. Just stick your head in there.. you'll see it.. Its probably the easiest fix you'll ever have on that machine..
Thanks for the reply. I'll take another look at it on the weekend thought there might be an Allen set screw in the hole to hold the cable but I didn't have any with me.
There ARE allan screws that hold the LEVER to the shaft.. DONT TOUCH those unless its to tighten them up.. and its probably not a bad idea. They're kinda brittle so don't yank on um' or you'll pop the heads off. They are 2 diff. sizes. Snap a pic and post if your alittle confused. It sounds like maybe 1 of the screws is missing and that's why your getting "a roll"??
I finally remembered to get a pic of shut off. I still don't see what is holding it. Let me know what I am missing. Is the screw on back side of arm or is it broke off? I was thinking there might be an allen screw in the hole but I didn't have my glasses or allen wrenches with me.
It should be right in your line of site. Its either an allen or its broken
I don't know if it matters, but your shut off cable is routed incorrectly. Instead of coming down and being held by whatever to the injector lines, it should be routed from the rear of the block, past the fuel filters and secured/adjusted by that clip you can see in your picture, bolted to the block just behind #4 injector line. Once you have the cable in place, you can adjust it by moving the cable in the clip to get the travel you want. Mine is secured to the arm by a bolt from the back side. Use a small mirror to see the hex head, if its still stock. Also, on my pump, the arm is oriented down on the shaft, so that when the fuel shut off is pulled, it rotates to approximately where yours shows in the picture. When the fuel shut off is pushed all the way in, the lever is forward. In the manual, there is an adjustment for this. Hope this is of some use to you.
I will check it out when i get a chance. I tried some wrenches but nothing seemed to fit in behind there, don't have a small mirror. It came with cable ties around the injector lines to hold it in place I knew that wasn't right.
The parts book just calls it 'Screw, Swivel' with no size. Its pretty small and does have a hex head. When you tighten it up, it clamps the cable but leaves the swivel piece loose to allow for free movement.
Now that the cold weather is here I don't have to worry about shutting the tractor off because it won't start. I don't want to use ether. I read some other posts about block heaters melting snow off the hood. Mine has what looks like the factory setup of a heater that threads into the block. I can leave it plugged in for 4 hrs and it will be warm not hot right next to the heater but still have frost on the other side of the block. I assumed they either worked or they didn't work. Can these block heaters get weak over time?
when it hits the teens mine has a hard time starting one little shot of either and she fires right up .
I would say no they either work or they don't . If it warm right next to it then it's working. The one on my tractor is just luke warm where it goes into the block but the tractor starts just fine no matter how cold it is out.
Got a new group 31 battery to replace the small car battery next time I try to get it going. I hope that makes a difference.
That sh-off lever LOOKS strange.. Granted its hooked up w/zip ties but it looks like the lever itself is on the pump wrong?? Shouldn't the lever be turned around the other way and the cable hold down bolt be in the side we're looking at?? I guess if it works, it works.. no sense in chasing ghosts..
I got one of them truck battery's in mine http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/exide-heavy-duty-farm-battery-hp31e?cm_vc=-10005
Here are a couple of pictures and a page from the service manual that shows the orientation of the lever on the pump and the attachment point for the shut off cable. On mine, the shut off cable is not attached yet as the panel and gauges are waiting to be painted before being reinstalled. You can see the hole for the cable and the bolt head on the block side of the lever. Sorry for the quality of the page from the shop manual, as my scanner is down and I just took a picture of it.
Thanks for the pics.. that's clear enough. I gotta get back to work..I'm loosin my touch.. lol
Pumpguy, I'm not exactly sure its the same pump but its close enough. When we pulled my machine apart, I decided to have the pump rebuilt and had considered shipping it down to you, but the customs. shipping and all plus I have a good shop just up the road had me get it done locally. We all appreciate your advice, expertise and willingness to help out with this type of stuff. I am willing to try anything, but know where its worth having a pro look after it. After having my tractor in small pieces on the shop floor, I am pretty comfortable with what it should look like but a lot of these old machines are cobbled together and a long way from original. I am lucky to be the 3rd owner and got it from a friend who had it from when it was only 4 yrs old. Its pretty much original except for the usual missing bits that were removed along the way.
I completely understand J.. I wont ship to BC on account of customs either.. it looks like a nice clean rebuild tho.. Didn't you get the new governor weight retainer update, when you got it built?? I once had a pump stuck in customs for 3 weeks because the customer forgot to drain the fuel & it leaked thru the box.!!! He had to pay a huge fine.. its not worth the hassle.. as far as the shut-off position goes> there is a spec on the rebuild sheet that gives the "correct" position of the lever on reassembly. It just depends on the pump model and application.. When I run into something that's not quite right, I call the customer & explain that, its not set-up according to manufacturer build spec,, but if its the way they want it, I'll leave it as is.. Theres ALOT of *custom* throttle and shut-off set-ups out there.. lol
Pumpguy, I entrusted the pump to the shop for a complete rebuild and whatever was required. My marine shop sent me there as they use them for all their Volvo/Bosch stuff. I had new injectors that they pop tested n/c but can't say exactly what went into it. There were several parts and a kit listed on the invoice, which I will look at again. I have never been in a mechanical shop where everything is as clean as this place. Goes with the business, I guess. I receive quite a bit of stuff sent from the US, but have never shipped anything down for repair and had it shipped back. What little I trade with friends south of the border, I take along in my truck and same for the other way. Its easier explaining 60yr old military truck parts value in person, rather than on a form. All my Case parts have come from Dale Weiss at Tractorstuff, shipped USPS without a hitch. Customs brokerage is like $11CDN and then I pay taxes on the CDN value at my local Post Office. UPS and the other couriers charge outrageous amounts for brokerage and when you add those costs, it almost doubles the purchase price. Crazy, but that how they gouge more out of us...
Most of the repairs I have done to this machine involve fixing someone's *custom* work. The latest was tightening up those shiny nuts that hold the exhaust manifold on. The rear most ( not in earlier pic.) is a bolt that feels like it is bottomed out should it be a stud with a nut as well?
I had a quick look at the Case Construction Parts web page and they show a stud and nut at each end of the manifold, and if I recall, my 188 is the same. I can't seem to post a copy of their exploded parts view but you could look for yourself. http://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr49912ar227323
Andy, I'm pretty sure the block heater that threads in only costs twenty something so if you have doubts about yours, it probably wouldn't break the bank. You can also get one of those magnetic ones and stick it to the oil pan or anywhere else. I'm sure it's a lot colder here but whatever it takes. As a last resort, some gas on a rag under the air intake on the hood won't get sucked in and is much more kind to the motor than ether - and it works.
I finally got around to changing that hose. Old hose had an adapter to go from orb to npt. The adapter was leaking so I eliminated it with new hose . Found another leak at loader control valve. It drips every 5 seconds whether I am using loader or not with it running. Can this be fixed on the machine?
I would like to get tach and hour-meter working. The cable pulled right out of the piece in picture just like it was cut off. Do you think a new cable will fix it or is there more too it?
Still looks like the crimped cable end and nut are there, and that screws onto the drive assembly, so all you should need is a new cable and it will have that end on it. Just to put it out out there also, that's no guarantee the Tach and hour meter will still still work though, unless you saw them working before hand. There is a plastic intermediate shaft in the Tach that rides on a worm gear in there for the hour meter and it can fail, at least that's what happened to mine here, so no telling how many hours she really has as it failed at 4502 on mine, which I'm sure was long before I ended up with her. The Tach was still bouncing happily along though. You could also go a bit newer route with a Tiny-Tach or something along that line with a far more accurate digital readout for the hour and RPM. I'm still kicking around ideas there on how to go about redoing mine, as I'm rewiring everything in there anyway, but I do want to keep the 'retro' look and feel of it as much as possible.