Removed the master cylinders from the C, and they are completly gone. don't think I'd ever even get the pistons out of them. PO said the brakes had never worked in the 20 years he'd owned it, I imaging the wheel cylinders are gone too. Anybody ever been successful in crossing case #s over to Bendix? Summit racing has a Bendix 11053 that looks the same, I think it's for a jeep, but if it has a 7/8 bore, and mounts the same, won't it work? Much cheaper than case parts.
Not sure about the 580C, but many Case loader/hoes used hyd oil in brake system. If you used a master cylinder that required DOT brake fluid, it would destroy seals in brake actuator cylinders, and unsure if you could get brake cylinders of that vintage that used brake fluid. Maybe one of the Case techs here has more accurate info.
My 580C uses brake fluid. Don't see why the Bendix would not work if they line up to the long bolts that hold them together. The housings and brake disc's were soaked in gear oil but cleaned up well enough. Had to replace a couple of small springs and cleaned up the slave cylinders but so far they are working fine.
Haven't disassembled the brakes themselves yet, pulled the master cylinders because I'm rebuilding the dash box and replacing guages. When I get the time to tear down the brakes, I'll see where I'm at. I want the master cylinders in place before I install the dash box, but will probably wait on the rest.
If you take the floor panel out, bleeding the brakes is a one man job. Otherwise, you'll need a second person under the tractor.
Got the brakes tore down on the C today. Everything inside looks brand new. As I said before, the PO said the brakes had never worked. They look like they've never been used, except - right side has had some oil seepage from the differential. Not real bad, but enough so that eveything is coated. The bands and discs, etc, look brand new. Is there any chance that I can clean this stuff up, brake cleaner, carb cleaner or what ever and reuse it? Hate to throw something away that looks brand new. Master cylinders and wheel cylinders are completely shot, so will replace them, found them on after market for a decent price. I hope the steel lines and the flex lines going to the wheel cylinders don't leak, this is getting a little expensive. Will have to replace the seal on the right hand side, I've read a lot of advice on this forum about how to do that, so as soon as I get the seal in, we'll tackle that. I'm going to buy the cylinders that use brake fluid.
I threw all the parts in a cleaning tank with diesel and then used degreaser to get rid of the diesel. So far they are working fine. Time will tell if it causes any problems. I replaced both of the shaft seals but did not replace the small differential lock shaft seal. Will do that next year in the spring after I get some stumps removed just in case I can't get it out without having to get into the rear end. I just cleaned the slave cylinders and replaced the O-ring and so far no leaks.
I don't know if it is the most intelligent thing to do, but back in the day some mechanics I knew would use a torch to cook the oil out from brake linings. I'm sure you would have to be careful in the heating not to get the linings too hot; just hot enough to "smoke" the oil out. I personally can't vouch for the effectiveness of the technique one way or another, but I would try before buying new stuff. Spray brake cleaners should clean the metal parts. Just be sure they are used far away from any flames or heat as most contain the chemicals "Toluene" or "Methyl Ethyl Ketone" both of which are good degreasers but very flammable.
I have a 555e
GWS - AS I understand it, you put the linings and all in diesel? How long did you soak? I'm sure gonna try that before I buy. Gonna have to buy all 4 cylinders, so that's gonna bust the budget. Does anybody out there have an extra brake band anchor (G15801)? Twisted one off, and case wants $19.77 (for a bolt!!!).
Band Bolt Maybe check with a High School or Tech School machine shop instructor. That would be a good small project for a student.
I didn't soak them, just used diesel to clean the oil off everything. I used Greased Lightning to remove the diesel and then wiped everything down. The brake band and disc lining did not look like they absorbed the oil as best I could tell. They cleaned up well and rubbing them with a clean cloth did not produce any oil residue that I could see. This may not be the best method to clean them but it seemed to work and so far I have not seen any problems. I have found that Aero Kroil works about the best at freeing up stuck parts. Works good on frozen pins and bolts. Spray it on, tap a few times and let it sit for an hour or so. Amazing stuff.
I worked about 3 hrs today trying to get that twisted off bolt out of the right brake cover. Finally soaked good with kroil and left over night - I'll try again tomorrow. Went looking for a 7/8-18 nut or tap closest tap I could find was in NY for $25 + shipping. The end of the old cable is screwed down on the tach drive, so I'm going to braze a bolt into it and see if that will pull it. It's just a thin metal screw down cover, but it has about 1/2" of good thread in contact with the drive, so maybe it'll work. I'll kroil it good first.
Which bolt is twisted off?
It sounds like it is not a bolt, but the band anchor pin: It will tough to replace this with a standard bolt, since I would assume that the pin is much harder than a bolt. If it is anything like the brakes on my B, it will take heat to get it out. HTH Dave
If you have access to a drill press you can center drill it and use an easy out. Otherwise like Dave says, heat is probably the only other choice if the Kroil doesn't loosen it up. I would get the pin from case or have one made from a high grade steel. Probably cost the same either way. Oil the threads when you put the replacement in and it won't rust up again for a very long time. I have repaired these kind of rod bolts by cutting the head off a hardened bolt with a smooth shank the proper size and length and turn it around so the threads are sticking out. Screw it in and leave enough sticking out for a lock nut to go on the outside of the cover.
getting my post count in - #1
Just for the heck of it, I checked the brake band pin/bolt on my 580C. The thread is 5/8-11. There is no grade indicated on the bolt head. I didn't check the smaller pin size.
Yeah, it's the break pivot bolt. Gonna have to order it from case, when I finally get it out. It's pretty hard, but the vise grips will grab it on the brake band end, as soon as I get the threaded end to turn. Probably get out the hot wrench today. Can't get the bands out until I get that bolt out, so am kind of at a stand still.
One more question for this AM. Anybody ever use Lucas products in the rear end or shuttle? I'm afraid the leak I have in the right brake is around the diff lock, and understand that means sp;itting the diff I'm, into this thing so deep right now, having never dug with it, I'm thinking of cleaning up the brake parts as per GWS, adding some lucas to the diff and putting it back together. I know they work wonders for Dodge xmissions.
Hi theoldman, Have you read this thread (Thread: Case 580C (Extendahoe) restoration) by GWS on page three. It has a lot of info in it pertaining to some of the same issues that you are facing. Scott
Do a search on Brakes. Can't remember where exactly but one of the topics shows how to make a tool to pull the little seal out without taking the diff apart. I'm going to try that in the spring and hope it works.
I read that, he used an old choke cable, bent ahook in the end then hammerd it flat.
I had let the brake pivot bolt soak with Kroil for a couple of days, and was able to back it out from the backside with a pair of vise grips. Got the brakes all dis-assembled and cleaned with mineral spirits and cleaned with degreaser - they really look good, reassembled brake packs, and ran all the cast iron parts through the bead blast cabinet - ready to paint. The master and slave cylinders arrived today. so will start re installation of the dash box tomorrow, waiting on a new brake pivot bolt to continuewith the brakes. Big day - making progress finally.
It's actually an old engine shut-off cable, single stainless wire - bit heavier duty than a choke cable. Not sure a choke cable would have the strength required.
Back to the brakes!! Finally got everything back together, and was testing the clutch solenoid while rear up on the outriggers, and lo and behold, the brakes won't stop tire rotation. While I had the brakes apart, cleaned everything and it all looked in very good shape. Reassembled w/new master cyls and slave cyls, and everything looks and operates very well, but obviously the bands aren't causing the discs to expand. The balls and the races looked good. There's a note in the service manual about adjustment must be correct or the brakes won't work, but that adjustment looks pretty close to me. The automatic adjustment mechanism is all gone, so I just used the conical nuts, then a lock nut. Don't think that should matter. Does it require a tremendous amount of force on the brake pedal? The only two things I can think of that would stop them from working is either the slave cyls are not pulling the bands tight, or the brake assys are in backwards. If the assys are in backwards, would that cause the balls to not "ramp up" and spread the discs?
Theoldman Does your emergency brake work? If it works and your and your brake pedals don't than I would look and see if you were having hydraulic issues. If your E brake is not working than look to see why it isn't applying the bands. The bands must be applied and both systems apply the bands. One system applies them hydraulically and the other applies them mechanically. My brakes take pretty good foot pressure to lock up but they will lock up and skid on dirt or pavement.
Interesting, hadn't thought about the E brake, it works after a fashion. I'll give it a try. I can see the brake actuating arm move with the foot pedal, so either it's not moving far enough or something. Acts to me like the drum/disc assy is not expanding.
Free play on the slave cylinder is just over 1/8" (.375). How far are the slave cylinders moving when you apply the brakes? They should just move a little. If they move very far, the actuating rod may be hitting the housing at the top. You can take out the movement of the rod by adjusting the nut on the rod. After cleaning mine, the first few times I used them they didn't stop very well unless I put a lot of pressure on the pedals. There getting better now the more I use them.
TheOldMan, I believe that the expanding drums will function either way. I put the driven side of the drums towards the transmission housing on mine, but either way should work. One thing that may be casuing an issue is how worn were the surfaces in your brake housings? Mine were fairly worn based on the ridge that was left around the pad in the housing. I used a sanding wheel and flatened that out on mine as I was concerned the new drums I installed may ride up on those and cause damage to the new linings. I measured the distance from the outside pad to the housing face, since the face of the carrier is the inside brake face. I then twisted the drum and determined I had enough to make work on my old 'B' I did a few weeks ago... If the housings are worn very much, the drums cannot expand enough to engage the outside linings and only the band is do the stopping. Also if that is the case the balls can jump the rails causing a lockup. Had that happen on an old 'D' I used to run for a plumber.... HTH Dave
On the 580C about the only thing the manual states is that the disc with the spline has to be next to the tractor.
Got everything working up on outriggers. I'll see how it stops when we get it on the ground
What was the issue?? Dave
Just adjustment. Evidently I didn't have them adjusted up far enough to close the bands.
Thats great!! Glad you got them working. Makes working the tractor alot easier with brakes! Dave
Haven't got in out to try it yet, waiting on a seat spring, then we'll try to work it between the hydraulic leaks. Only gonna use it here on the farm, so doesn't have to be perfect.
Finally got everything operating on my new C (engine, hydraulics, etc.). Now I started working on the brakes. There's no pressure when I push the pedals. Stroke feels fine, smooth, but definitely no pressure. I tried to check for fluid in the master cylinder, but can get the caps off? one won't budge, the other just spins and spins. I could have swore these caps were threaded on. Am I missing something? Should I just replace both master cylinders?
I replaced the master cyls and slave cyls on mine. I think you'll have to pull the entire dash assy in order to change the masters. The lids screwed off on mine, but they were completely corroded. Big problem, some of them used hydraulic fluid and some brake fluid. One is not compatible with the other, so if you replace the masters, you probably should replace the slaves also. Reliable aftermarket parts had the best price that I found.
Most people just cut two small holes in the side of the dash housing to get access to the master cylinder bolts. These are long bolts that go all the way through both master cylinders. If you don't want to cut the holes and mar up the housing you will need to remove the entire housing to get them out. New master cylinders usually come with plastic caps now to prevent them from corroding and freezing up. On the 580C you should be using DOT3 brake fluid.