I have a 580C that will no longer shut down when the fuel shutoff lever is closed on the pump. I have to turn the fuel line valve off and wait for it to shut off. This is a rebuilt pump that I installed about 4 years ago, but the machine has only been run about 100 hours since I installed it. It started leaking quite a bit around the throttle shaft about a year before I started having the no shut off issue. Also, the engine idles high now. Just wondering if anyone has had this issue. I work on all my own stuff, so I'm thinking about rebuilding the pump myself. I don't want to spend another 6-700 on a rebuilt pump to have it fail so quickly again.
Welcome to HEF TrIndy. If you do a search for 580C injector pumps you will find a lot of information. Those pumps have been discussed quite a bit before. There are some threads with detailed rebuilding instructions along with photos. There is a pump expert that drops in here quite often. He uses the name thepumpguysc. Do search and you will find his posts and will be an interesting read for you.
TrIndy, It might be something as simple as.. the shut off cam has broken.. SIMPLE FIX.. and doesn't cost squat.. OR it might be something as involved as a "flex ring"..?? What you need to do is,.. shut off the fuel.. get a wad of paper towels and remove the side cover.. hold the towels under the s.c. till the fuel stops running out.. look at the towel.. if it has abunch of "coffee grounds" on it.. the pump needs a flex ring.. IF you don't see the "black stuff".. remove the top cover.. 3 screws.. work the shut off lever.. it should move the metering valve to the shut off position.. You'll see it when it happens..
Thanks for the help. I'll check for the "coffee grounds". I think the shut off lever felt like it was in a bind the last few times that it worked. Now it's not in a bind, but doesn't do shut the engine down. Would the broken shut off cam cause a high idle? It runs good otherwise and has full power. I disconnected the throttle shaft to make sure the throttle wasn't being held open by the linkage or something, and it still idled high.
Thanks
The cable being in a bind is an indicator that the sh-off cam probably fell off.. as far as the hi idle goes, depending on where the cam is laying inside the pump, yes, it could be under the governor spring, causing your hi idle. Either way.. your gonna have to drain the fuel out of the pump so you can see inside.. you might as well check for a broken flex ring first.. [coffee grounds] then pull the top cover. Send me your email address, thru email or private msg and I'll send you a parts break down of the inside of the pump, so you know what your looking for..
Thanks. Just sent it to you via pm.
I finally got around to checking this out. When I first started it, I ran it for about 15 minutes and it started idling normal. Then when I turned the shut off lever, it shut down. I started it a couple more times and it idled and shut off OK. Then the next day I took the side cover off and there was a very small amount of the "coffee ground" stuff. Maybe 5 or 6 really small pieces. I took the top cover off and the shut off cam was still in place and tight. Also, when I moved the shut off valve, the metering valve was turning. I did find that a broken shut off cable was still connected on the shut off lever that was making it hang up sometimes, so I removed it. Also, the shut off lever would not fully open because it was hitting a fuel injector line. I bent the line up out of the way so it could open all the way. I put it back together and started it. It was idling high again. When I turned the shut off lever to closed it would not shut down. Also, I moved the throttle lever to WOT to rev the engine to governed speed, then closed the shut off lever, and the engine would go to idle but not shut off. I could move the shut off from closed to open to closed with the throttle lever at WOT and the engine would go from idle to governed speed to idle, but it would never shut off. I finally just shut the fuel line off and waited for it to run out of fuel. Any ideas?
SOUNDS to me like you have "linkage" problems.. DISCONNECT the sh/off cable COMPLETELY from the shaft.. NOW start the engine.. Move the sh/off lever FULLY to shut off the engine BY HAND.. and back to the run position.. just to make sure the screws are hitting their stops.. Let us know how you make out..
I just re-read your 1st post.. sitting for 4 years and 100 hrs is NOT good for a flex ring.. it will sit in the fuel and rot..[deteriorate] The manufacturer came out with "an optional fix".. its called an EID weight retainer.. it removes the "plastic" flex ring.. instead of the 3 piece , hub, weight cage and flex ring.. they offer a 1 piece weight retainer.. Some people sell them online for about 90.00 but in reality they cost about 72.00 at your local fuel inj. shop.. BUT you have to scribe YOUR timing line on it to match your old one.. AND/OR ask for it specifically.. when you had your pump rebuilt.. A fuel shop IS NOT going to tell you about this option.. THEY want to see you back in a few years for ANOTHER 6-700.00 overhaul.. That's why there's guys like me that can sleep at nite.. if you know what I mean..???
Thanks for the advice. The cable was completely off of the shut off lever when I was testing it. The lever is hitting both stops, but when the lever is in the shut off position, the metering valve isn't completely rotated clockwise. I can take my finger and rotate it maybe 1/16 of an inch further. I backed the shut off adjustment screw out to make the lever move further toward the shut off position, but I can still move the metering valve clockwise a little. Does the metering valve have to be completely rotated clockwise to shut off the fuel? If the metering valve is moving correctly, is there somewhere in the pump where fuel can be leaking past the shutoff? I did notice that the governor arm movement was a little sloppy on the governor arm pivot shaft. Would this have anything to do with it? Thanks
AAHHH the plot thickens.. GOOD WORK GRASSHOPPER.. lol The MV has a "shut-off slot"... and will continue to rotate.. you might just have a worn MV?? You'll have to remove the throttle shaft, guide stud and governor spring inorder to remove the MV for inspection.. ie: wear on the MV.. Also note.. they make an "oversize" version of the valve too.. but we'll cross that bridge when we get there..
Thanks. I'll probably do that later this evening and get back with you. Is there a way to measure how much the metering valve is worn?
I take it you did this WHILE the engine was running?? IF NOT.. THATS what you need to do.. Its messy, I KNOW.. just let the engine idle and try it.. pull/push the MV to shut-off and see what happens.. Theres no REAL measurement for a worn MV other than "the test stand"..there IS a spec for a MV but you cant measure a "worn" MV.. BUT a visual check determins whats good and whats bad in the real world.. Once the valve is in your hand.. you'll see it.. it will be a very shiny "blow-by" spot at the "flat".. you'll see it if its there..
Oops...no, engine was off. But I just did the test with the engine running(not too bad with a bucket underneath). At first the metering valve would just stay fully clockwise and the shut off lever didn't even touch it when I moved the lever to the off position. I could move the metering valve CCW with my finger and the engine revs. When I let go, it moves back fully CW and the engine idles, but idles high. I took my finger and pressed kinda hard CW, and the engine slowly died. Here's the weird part. I started the engine a second time and moved the metering valve back and forth a few times. All of a sudden the engine started idling normal speed, and the metering valve moved away from the fully CW position. Then the shut off lever worked normally. When I move it to the shut off position, it moves the metering valve CW and engine shuts down immediately. I started it up a couple more times and shut it off. Everything seems normal for now. Any ideas? Maybe some dirt or something that got washed out?
I can relate to a sticking mv idleing hi.. but why no shut-off?? The mv HAS TO move freely in its bore.. if you "flick it" clockwise, it MUST return CC on its own.. Just keep working with it by hand.. it'll loosen up.. There is also a SLIGHT DOWN movement on it too.. push it down while turning it and pull it up while turning it.. that may get the crud off of it.. If all else fails, pull it out and clean it..
Yes. It seems to be freed up now. It no longer moves all the way CW by itself when idling. I may go ahead and take it out and clean it like you suggested, then get some new filters. I already have the throttle shaft off because I'm changing the leaky orings where it goes through the housing.
Thanks for the help, thepumpguysc. I fixed the o-ring leaks and installed new fuel filters. It's been running great and shutting down like it should for the last several days, so I think there was just some dirt around the MV or something. I couldn't have fixed it without your help. I really appreciate it.
Glad we were able to walk you thru it.. Happy tractoring..