Hey everyone, I have a 1967 Case 580CK Loader/Backhoe. I have a hydraulic oil leak between the bellhousing and rear of the engine. So before I rip the front end apart and drop the oil pan and so forth, is there even supposed to be hydraulic fluid in the bell housing? The leak is small, drips slowly. Sometimes stops dripping all together until the tractor is started. I have heard that some tractors have oil in this area and even have starters that have internal seals to stop the oil from leaking out...I am at a loss. If I let the tractor sit for a week or more, I will lose so much hydraulic oil that it will not move until I add more. See the pictures I have included. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
I would like to repost the pics with the proper orientation. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Hello fliptop......I just walked out to look at my 68 580CK. Are you sure that it is hydraulic fluid, and not engine oil that is leaking out? I have done alot of work on my tractor, but have not ever replaced the seal that you are having trouble with. Do you have a shop manual to do some research?
1968 Case 580CK, thanks for the reply. I do have the shop manual and read every section about the powertrain last evening. It actually remains very vague about wether or not this is a wet torque converter and bell housing. However, in doing some online research overnight on other forums I have found that it should be a wet bell housing. So I ordered the gasket kit for the stamped steel oil pan and I will perform the necessary repair. I will take pics and document the process and post it here after I am done.
Fliptop.......Thanks in advance for taking pics and posting as you dig into the job.....should help others down the road. How did you discover if you had a wet or dry bell housing? I am thinking that mine is just a plain dry one with a dry clutch.....but how do you know for sure? Here is a pic of my rig, and I am looking for one showing the bell housing: On the other side is the Timing Inspection hole, which shows the timing marks......and it is completely dry inside that part.
View attachment ENGINE GASKET KITS, (159) SPARK IGNITION ENGINE.pdf Hey 68, I was reading on other forums where people had tch leaks after installing a new starter. The fluid was leaking directly out of the starter itself. So in further reading I found that the 580CK with the torque converter and shuttle shift had wet bell housings. The people that bought generic starters installed them and as soon as the tractor ran and moved, they had a fluid mess everywhere. After buying the correct starter with the internal seals, no more leak. One poster even stated that he could remove the old starter and see the fluid level just below the starter opening in the bell housing. Others stated they could see fluid from the inspection or timing hole. Either these posters are correct or their tractors were all incorrect and still operated properly. Another thought...why would the seal be between the bell housing and the engine if it wasnt supposed to be a sealed unit. On the dry clutch ( true clutch, not torque converter) machines, there isnt a seal on the bottom of the bell housing and there isnt really anything more than a dust cover. Similar to what you would find on an older car. Take out a couple of bolts and the cover comes off and you could see in the bell housing. On to further possible evidence...Case had two different gasket setups for the 580CK. The first gasket setup had one gasket between the bell housing and the rear of the engine that ran about 70% of the circumference and a smaller gasket that completed the circumference and sealed the cast iron oil pan to the bell housing. Cast iron oil pans had the radius rod support integrated. The second gasket setup had a similar design with additional gaskets in between the radius rod support and the oil pan. This was found on units with the stamped steel oil pan. Units with the stamped oil pan have a non-integrated radius rod support that bolts up to the bell housing and oil pan after the oil pan is installed. I dont know if the setup was the same on both gas and diesel. I have included a picture from Case to review. So in closing, I cannot be 100% sure that it is a wet bell housing because no expert has answered. I do, however, believe that it is.
Case picture that didnt attach last time... I hope this works. View attachment ENGINE GASKET KITS, (159) SPARK IGNITION ENGINE.pdf
That was a very detailed and well-written reply.....youre definately doing your homework on this issue. I think there is also confusion with the term "shuttle shift". My CK has what I always thought was a shuttle shift, which is the forward/reverse lever on the left side of the steering column. However, I have to dip the clutch when shifting between forward/reverse, whereas I think a "real" shuttle shift does not require usage of the clutch (is that right?). The seal between the engine and the bell housing is, I believe, just to keep the engine oil from leaking into the Bell and mixing with your hydraulic fluid. Even on mine, the seal must be there to keep the engine oil from leaking. Gaskets......I ordered mine from TractorStuff.....about $20, and he did ask about the cast-iron oil pan to ensure he sent the right one. I havent removed the oil pan yet to explore that area. Here are a few more pics of the underbelly on my 580CK.......and reasons why mine must be a plain dry bell housing: View attachment 141870 The bolt config. appears slightly different from my 580CK to your 580CK......or an optical illusion. Maybe this is due to the fact that yours is a wet bell housing, and mine is a dry one (except for the leaking diesel on her underbelly). View attachment 141871 Shot looking forward under the Bell housing. View attachment 141872 And this shows the clutch linkage going into the bell housing.....no way it could be a wet housing, as all the fluid would leak out. (Shouldnt there be a rubber boot around the clutch linkage to keep out the varmits and mud dobbers?) So, you must have the wet bell housing, and Im thinking that I am lucky to have a simple plain-jane dry clutch type
Just reading through some very old posts here on this forum. I found a senior member named Phil who seems to be the forum resident expert on these early Case backhoes. Sadly, I dont see where he has posted anything since 2010. He would be a wealth of information for you and I 1968... Here is what he stated about fluid in these early machines with torque converters. "The transmission/differential uses #80-90 EP, GL-4 rated gear oil. The fill plug/dipstick for that compartment is just behind the trans gearshift cover. The shuttle compartment uses Case TCH fluid and the fill plug/dipstick for it is just in front of the trans gearshift cover, on the shuttle cover. The trans/diff compartment takes at least 20 liters as I recall. The shuttle compartment takes about 2/3 of a 20 liter pail. The converter can't be drained on a CK model and the shuttle oil level needs to be rechecked after about 10 minutes of running, once the flywheel/converter compartment refills. Phil " So he states the converter cant be drained, but the fluid level must be checked after about 10 minutes...this allows the flywheel/converter compartment to refill. I assume that means the bell housing behind the engine that houses the torque converter. I am planning on tackling this project this weekend so long as our pending hurricane doesnt come up the east coast and rain me out. I will post pics from this project.
FlipTop......I see that my pics did not pull up.....Will post them again here: Regarding the converter, I read in some posts that if you rotate the converter around to a certain spot, there is a drain plug/bolt that allows it to be drained. However, Im not sure which models that started on, or if it is never done due to the difficulty of the job. Also, the converter only holds a quart or so from what I had read. Yep, that hurricaine is coming our way......Im in central Va., and we just got hammered with 4 inches yesterday.
If it is a case-o-matic it has a wet housing. To drain the torque converter remove the case drain plug below it which lines up with the torque converter. With a flashlight rotate the TQ until you see the allen head drain plug.
So, I finished all the resealing work I had planned on this old girl! I removed the steering cylinders, radius rod, radius rod support, and oil pan. I did discover the the 580CK with a torque converter DOES, without a doubt, have a wet bell housing. I cleaned everything up and put it all back together with the proper gaskets and a little blue RTV to be sure. I waited the 24 recommeded hours and refilled all the fluids...perfect with no leaks. I must say that I think the 159 gas motor with the stamped steel oil pan is way over engineered. Too many parts and pieces. Would have been nice to see the cast oil pan. While I had the backhoe in the garage, I also replaced the brakes and seals on both sides, replaced both springs on the throttle control (one outter and one inner), removed and cleaned the air cleaner (about 4 cups of water in there...not cool), adjusted everything that the service manual had a way to adjust and repaired my hand throttle as it never worked since I got the backhoe home. After 4 days and many hours I have a machine that is performing the way it should finally! I dont have to add fluid every time I start the backhoe anymore.
FlipTop......Great job there! Funny how our rigs have yeller sides and orange bellys........guess we had the same guy paint our 580 years ago. I will sometime be attempting to remove my oil pan......and so all the other parts will need to come off first. Can you give me any tips/suggestions? Got anymore pics of this procedure? Good to hear she is purring like a kitten, and no more drips.
1968, Tips for oil pan removal. I am sitting here thinking it may be easier with the cast iron pan. With the steel pan the radius rod support is separte and bolts up after the pan is in place. I didnt want to risk "slipping" the pan in and out with that radius rod support and radius rod in place. I just had to be sure I had good contact of new gaskets and a clean prepped area. If you do have to remove the radius rod from your backhoe, start by unbolting the steering cyliders from the radius rod. Dont be afraid to heat up the knuckle they are bolted into. I failed to get the knuckle hot enough and mushroomed the bolt on the tie rod pounding it up and out. So I jumped on ebay and got one for each side front and rear to replace the old worn out ones anyway. After the steering cylinders were unbolted I bungee corded them to the loader frame so they were up and out of the way. Next step was getting that radius rod out. There are 2 bolts on each side of the axle. One is huge, 1 1/2 maybe. When tightening this back up it is several hundred foot pounds of torque according to the service manual. The other is a bit smaller 1 1/8. This bolt is placed lovingly between the front axle and the cast iron front of the tractor. You can barely get a wrench in there to get the stinker lose. After all four bolts are out, the radius rod will drop straight down and was easily moveable. Oops, one more step. The rear of the radius rod will need to be disconnected from your oil pan before it can come out. The oil pan was easy. 10 or 12 small bolts and the pan dropped. I dropped the rear first, and then slid the front of the pan straight back and down at the same time. It allowed me to clear both the front axle and the oil pump pick up tube at the same time. Once everything was out I cleaned it all up with the whizzer (die grinder with attached pad) and made is shiny and new. I applied a nice coat of blue rtv, stuck the gasket on and then a 1/16 bead of rtv on top of the gasket. I put the pan in place and got the bolts finger tight. Wait one hour for the rtv to set up and then torque to final spec. Steel pan was a little less torque than cast pan if I recall. I waited 24 hours and filled her up with 5 quarts of Case Low Ash engine oil and a fresh new filter. Happy tractor and happy mechanic. I reassembled all the suspension with no change except the use of never seize on every bolt, and we are off and running. I just looked through my pics and I dont have many detailed pics of the process. Like a fool I need to slow down and document as I go. I was in "go mode" and just flew. I did find this one pic that shows the bottom end of the engine with the oil pan off. Good luck 1968, I had a good time and now know the machine a little more than before. My wife calls her the other woman because I just spent so many nights straight in the garage with her. Oh well, she is good company.
FlipTop......Great write-up on to do this task. I will definitely read again when I am ready to give it a whirl. One reason I wanted to do this is to inspect the oil pump pick-up screen, and see if it is getting glogged. Were you able to take your screen off and inspect/clean? By the way, my oil pressure always runs on the high side.....up near the 80 mark of the gauge. Someone said that there was a chance the oil pick up was getting clogged, or the oil galleries up in the block. I put another oil pressure gauge on (now have two working), and the new one does read a bit lower.....65-70 lbs instead of 80 lbs. Others have said that alot of Case tractors ran with high oil pressure.....so, could be that I have no clogging issues at all. What oil pressure does your 580 run at? Here is the nitch I found to install the new oil pressure gauge....even had a hole already drilled for me to use: Here the engine is running at idle, and the oil pressure reading on the old gauge is up near 80.
Are you reading the right oil pressure. Engine oil pressure is regulated at 24 - 32 psi. Clutch pressure (gauge on the left) should read 105 - 120 psi.
Old Electron Magnet........Engine oil pressure.....Yep, I have one oil pressure outlet under the primary fuel filter, and I put a Tee on it and have both lines runnning up to the dash. One is reading close to 80 and the new one reads around 65-70. I have a dry clutch on this old rig.
Hey 1968, My 580 does not have an oil pressure gauge. I have one of those factory installed idiot lights. It does still work properly. And I didn't notice any blockages on my oil pickup screen. Something kinda weird about the way Case designed that oil pickup apparatus...It is quite large compared to an automobile or truck. It also pivots up and down on a hinge. My thought would be to ensure proper oil pickup no matter what angle front to back the machine is on. So when the rear stabilizers are down to dig and front is sitting lower, the oil pickup will always be immersed in enough oil to do its job. Pretty cool really.
FlipperTopper.....I guess the idiot light will work as long as the bulb is good......I guess that if you turn on the key and dont see the light, its time to put a new bulb in. Glad you described the oil pick-up as being hinged......I had just assumed it was firmly mounted in one spot. Having it float up and down is a better design. Im hoping all is gonna be fine in there when I get around to taking the pan off. Hey......got another question for you about fuel filters, but I will start a new thread so this one doesnt get off topic. I will call it "Changing Fuel Filters on 580Ck". See ya.