I was digging a trench and the backhoe wouldn't swing back after dumping the bucket. I tried all controls including the loader and nothing worked. No massive leaks under her and I didn't hear any unusual sounds. Is there any troubleshooting I can do before removing the hydraulic pump from behind the grille? Perhaps the coupler has broken?
you can check the fluid level, but I'd say your guess is as good as any. If you can't see to tell if the pump shaft is turning, pulling the pump will show. Do you get any attempt to move out of any of the hydraulic functions? even the ones with no weight on them like bucket tilt? if you do, then it could be a jammed relief valve, but it could still be a slipping drive shaft too.
The tractor is up in the air on the outriggers and loader bucket so everything has weight on it except the backhoe which is just self-weight. If I take the outlet hose off the pump and I don't see oil pumping while cranking the engine, I'll know the pump isn't turning. Correct?
More than likely the drive coupler has stripped the splines. You will need to remove the hyd. pump and replace it and the drive coupler.
This is what I was thinking/fearing but I was hoping there would be a shear pin in there. Guess not.
As long as there's oil in the pump, then yes, it will at least move the oil if it's turning. You might have something else besides the splines stripped, or if it's the splines it might work for years with just the shaft portion of the coupler replaced and greased. I don't know about that case, but ** for instance is a common spline and very easy to get, compared to a new hydraulic pump driveshaft.
Unfortunately there isn’t a shear pin. You can get some longer bolts for the coupler and washers to go between the crank pulley. That will at least allow you to get machine to better place to do repair.
Are you saying it won't drive without that pump? I manually jacked up the outriggers and buckets to move it but haven't as of yet. Are the bolts and washers to space the pump out further to catch a good spot on the coupler?
You can drill the coupler and shaft and put a 1/4 inch grade 8 through it,l bought a 580 B that ran that way for several years and now you got your shear pin
I don't use this machine much and haven't ever changed the hydraulic fluid filter. Could this be a possible cause? The hex head on top of the housing is stripped so I'll have to find another way to remove it.
my 1550b has a filter in the engine bay. after owning it for 20 years, i discovered it also has a screen filter INSIDE the hydraulic tank. have to drain tank, remove a plate to access. make sure you know about all of yours if/when you check
The condition of the filter has nothing to do with the pump spline and coupler failure. If it is the a spline failure it may be cheaper to replace the pump due to the cost of a new input shaft for it. There are 4 four 5/16th's bolts that hold the cap on the hydraulic filter if your 580 is a CK with no letter following the ck.
I'm trying to consider all other possibilities before removing the pump.
The hyd. pump has nothing to do with the transmission, it's only function is to provide oil to the hyd. system.
Where are the four bolts?
That hex head isn't so bad, get a six point socket that fits it tight. file it flat if needed to get it on there. Tap around the base of the outer threaded part with a hammer to loosen the corrosion. Heat the outside a little, 200F or so. Put pressure on a breaker bar on the hex head and keep tapping. If there's a suction strainer, and it's completely plugged, then it could cause a loss of hydraulics, especially if there's a suction leak also. Not likely though. It will drive without the hydraulics, just easier if the buckets are off the ground.
Thanks Thanks Delmer. Nothing seems to hold in the up position. I have the the backhoe bucket and outriggers up and strapped, the loader bucket is raised off the ground and I'm going to block the rams to hold it. I don't know how to hold the boom up to drive it off the driveway. Might have to just drag it behind when I park it.
I went brain dead and was thinking of the transmission filter housing.
I got the filter housing off and found the filter different from what the dealer sold me. It didn't looked plugged by any means. I strapped up all her appendages and drove it off the driveway to a suitable work location and I could hear a clanking sound up front so I suspect as everyone else, the coupler is likely toast. We'll know after lunch as long as it wants to be removed.
She was a previous drill and bolt recipient due to a stripped input shaft and coupler. The input shaft broke at the bolt. I'm on the hunt for another pump in Ontario. If anyone has any leads on one I would be interested.
Nothing left of the splines on the pump shaft then? Don't worry too much about finding a used pump, they're common and relatively cheap to get new/aftermarket/rebuilt. Or if you want to do it cheap, if that's the standard 13 spline? then the spline and mounting pattern are almost universal with gear pumps, and you'd just need to find one close to the same size, and able to match up to your hoses.
A new pump will be $500.00. The coupler that bolts to the crankshaft is $45.00 on BrokenTractor.com https://www.brokentractor.com/c/case-backhoe/hydraulic-pump/ There are other vendors selling them to.
Did Tractorstuff in Daleville IN close up? I got brakes there in early 2020. Their website doesn't work any longer.
I noticed his website is unavailable a while ago. He has been having serious health issues for a couple of years. He was only working part time the last time I talked to him. I have no idea if that has anything to do with the website.
I tried the phone number off my previous bill and it didn't go through.
That is cause for concern.
Do I need the snap ring part 13 in the diagram? Part number G46150. There wasn't one on this when the pump came off.
Yes, definitely. It keeps the shaft centered.
My manual doesn't indicate where the snap clip goes. Does it go on the pump drive shaft (14) and just get pushed along when the pump is installed? There's no groove in the shaft for it.
No groove, then it doesn't use it.
I'd guess the groove is internal in the coupler, #12
Look inside the coupler for the groove. The parts book I took the image from doesn't show a snap ring. All Case service manuals specify Molykote G for the splines. It is supposed to be brushed on. Smearing it on is a no no. Gun grease is not acceptable because it has a short life span on them.
I found this image when searching for the parts. It shows the snap ring inside the coupler. Mystery solved. Is Molykote G just an anti-seize compound? I'm going to have to find a neighbourhood kid with a hand small enough to fit through the hole in the frame to brush it on the driveshaft from the engine.
This is what the "shear bolt" looked like when the pump came off. I had to cut the nut off to remove the coupler from the driveshaft.
A good example of what happens when the proper repair isn't made. Molykote G isn't a true anti-size compound but serves the same purpose with lubricating characteristics.
So I received the coupler and pump and the coupler doesn't have a C-clip or a groove inside to install one. I'm thinking it's an updated part and the C-clip isn't strictly required. Can anyone confirm?
http://e-backhoeparts.com/ is the current website for Tractorstuff, it works right now. Dale was still in charge a couple of months ago. (765)-378-3396
Dale warned me about checking the engine mounts before installing a new hydraulic pump. Does anyone have a photo of what I should check? Seems to me the engine is bolted to the front axle/rad support with 5/8" bolts. Am I missing something?
I believe the bolts item 36 are dowl bolts that align the block with the front bolster. As long as they are tight or have not been replaced you should be alright.
No I just ordered some parts from him a couple weeks ago. Dale 1 (800) 428-8183
I replaced my pump almost 2 years ago and while hoeing last month lost all pressure. I thought certainly it couldn’t be the pump so I’ve checked just about everything but the pump and running out of things to check. I don’t remember anything (reading or being told) about the hydraulic pump mount or engine mounts. Seemed pretty straight forward. The shop manual wants you to buy a special grease to lube the coupler but other than that the installation was simple or so it seemed. I have a 580C so not sure what the differences are but the shop manual and word of mouth said I wouldn’t need to remove the counter weight which for me I didn’t see how it could be down without removing it. Now that I’m doing more reading about everything, engine mounts seem to be an issue. I’ve heard about broken mounts but what concerns me is I have specific instructions I’m my shop manual for the installation of the front motor mount/hydraulic pump bracket. So I’m guessing my mount might have been out of whack when I replaced the pump last time. I’ve included the pages from my manual. my biggest dilemma is my backhoe is out in the pasture with the loader, stabilizers and hoe down. I have a 30hp tractor and am wondering if I can connect its loader hoses to my backhoe to use its hydraulics to put everything back in place to move to my shop. Lots of good info on this post.
Those instructions you posted are for a replacement motor mount. Yours should be fine unless the bolt holes in the mount or engine block have been damaged and the original alignment cannot be like it was when new. Yes, you could connect another tractor to the backhoe. BUT you would need to be sure that the return to hydraulic tank oil line on the backhoe is also connected to the donor tractor. If you don't the 580C tank will overflow and the donor may run low enough to damage the pump in it. You could raise the stabilizers and boom with a loader tractor. Someone would need to hold the cylinder control levers in the up position while doing that.
Thanks, I for the confirmation. I may not have been clear in my first reply. I put a new pump on the backhoe about 2 years ago and I’m perplexed why it would fail so soon. So I was just curious if someone before me may have messed with something or somehow the pump alignment got out of whack. Do you think that’s a possibility? The pump seemed to be aligned correctly when I installed it. Maybe I just got a bad pump.
If it's loose or it's been loose, it will have worn the paint off and run oil or rust down the paint. BUT, it could look tight at the top, so check the joint at the bottom, see if it looks tight, and check all the bolts for torque, if you can tighten any of them, then double check everything else. The grease is probably a moly grease to prevent fretting of the shaft and coupler if you can't find the type they want. Is the pump turning? is the fluid level low? is the suction hose cracked or collapsed?
Noytheyah; You are asking similar questions in two different threads. Hi jacking Temenuk's thread and then starting your own thread about the same problem causes a lot of confusion.
Sorry for the confusion, I didn’t mean to hijack the thread, just wanted to be helpful and pondering a bit.
No problem for me on the two different threads. The boom, and stabilizers can be raised a number of different ways. A cable or chain come-a-long would do it. A floor-jack and blocking is another. Depending on the position of the boom a 4x4 on a decent jack will raise it. An engine hoist is another possibility. I have used that method several times. Remember the control valves need to be in the proper position to allow them to be raised.