I recently purchased a 580SE (first backhoe) which has a bunch of leaks (which I knew it going in) and I'm in the process of trying to get a handle on them. One of them is from the side of the power shuttle right around #51, #54 (attached image). I suspect that I need to replace the #42 seal. What is involved in doing this (as in, is it possible)? From what I can tell, I have a "cluch cut out" solenoid on the outside of #54, how does that come off? I can't find any mention of it in my parts catalog or the service manual. I appreciate any help you can provide.
I would say you need to remove and rebuild the stem/control valve with a few o-rings. Also read this thread. The solenoid screws off after the linkage is disconnected. After the bolts on the other side are removed, the control valve comes out the right side. I have bought all the parts for mine, but not got them installed yet.
Thanks bowen, I was actually just reading your thread. I sounds like we are both fighting the same problems. Have you pulled the control valve out yet? It looksl like a lot of parts, does it all come out together?
It's not a bad job, takes about an hour after cleaning area, removing the 4x4 protection if installed, the orings should work but I have also had to send the housing off to the machine shop for a sleeve on several machines in the past, note the end cover with the safety switch, detent spring and ball when you install to get your timing right or it mite not start for you when completed and you will have to turn the end cap again. The control valve is one unit and not taken apart to replace the two orings.
Due to bad weather and my schedule I have not had time to do this yet. I also ordered a seal installation tool, item 42A, part # D123956 ($ 1.93). This is a small plastic piece that I do not know how to use yet. The large pipe for the fill/oil level stem has to come out, and I was warned to put some cover over or a rag in this hole to prevent trash or parts falling into the hole. You can check the neutral switch with an ohmeter. It has two wires on the switch. Should be 0 ohms in neutral, and open if if gear. The neutral switch has no 12VDC on it, as it opens the ground to the start relay.
The seal (#42) is a lip seal - it must be installed on the plunger with the lip pointing into the body. The plastic tool goes over the seal while inserting the plunger into the body - like using a piston ring compressor to fit a piston to a cylinder. Further to sheepfoot's comment, early valves only had one oring (#50) later models have two. These do wear the shuttle housing as mentioned, & once worn, new oring's do little to stop the flow of oil. To save removing the shuttle & stripping it for this repair - unless an overhaul was in order - I have sucessfully machined the oring groove on the valve body to allow fitment of a larger section oring & then refitting the valve only.
Forget the number I posted above for the seal installation tool. I have no idea where I got that number. Tool S/B # D75492. This is the parts I have bought to repair mine. I also got new seals for the neutral switch and the dipstick fitting. I hope my housing is not worn inside as I may not know how to even measure up inside the housing. It was not really leaking until I did the oil heat-up procedure with the parking brake on. I also hope that the little lip seal stays put as I pull the stem out so I can see which way to point the lip side. I need some new ball joints for my linkage, but I have to get them off and cleaned up to see if I can find these local.
It's simple bowen, the seal has a lip on just one side, that lip goes toward shuttle housing, hence the reason for the plastic install tool, to compress the lip on the seal to get it in the hole on shuttle housing. I'm near certain you can order spherical rod ends from NAPA or from Grainger. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/spherical-rod-ends/bearings/power-transmission/ecatalog/N-apd/No-0
McMaster Carr is where I order from often. Grainger is here close, but normally a bit pricey. http://www.mcmaster.com/#spherical-ball-joints/=fibtp6 I am sure they have these once I see exactly what they are . Case # D63154 is $ $28 I know they are 1/4-28 but I don't know if they are Female/Male RH or LH etc. When I get time to take them off I will order from someplace. McMaster is a good source for all kinds of parts. Good web naviation for screws etc. My linkage works ok, has loose motion makes the neutral knotch up top unreliable.
You guys are awesome, it sounds like it should be doable. The previous owner must have already been planning this because I found Items 42, 42A and 43 unopened in the toolbox. The way I see it I might as well change the O rings while I'm in there so I'm ordering them tonight. It will probably be a week or so before I get to trying this. Bowen, let me know how it goes, if you get to it first.
:update I got the thing off and cleaned up. Case wants $28 ea for these little rascals. The are Alinabal USA # KF-4 which are fairly cheap built rod ends. Those are 1/4-28 jam nuts and the rod end has female threads. All RH 1/4-28 threads and I found them at Motion Industries for $ 2.20 Ea These are still working but the joints are worn so that it has a good bit of loose motion.:roll My "neutral knotch" is often not really neutral which is a tad unsafe.
Do NOT order this part number. I got them but they are missing the mounting stud. KFS-4-GR would work but hard to locate. A better choice would be McMaster # 60645K421 maybe. They are $4.55 EA. These I got will work with a bolt but it's not the best option.
My problem at the moment is finding one of these for less than $62 from Case. It's Case Part # D141486 (old # D91440) It's the thumb button for the shuttle solenoid. I did find this one on Ebay, but it's the same price with shipping added. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CASE-Push-B...&otn=4&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=5304596585929998986 I can short across these 2 wires and I hear the large solenoid moving so I actually think my solenoid may be OK. The floor switch is hanging down broken, and I am going to replace this with an Omron # Z-15GQ55-B. (~$18) This will reqiire a new 1/2" hole drilled in the floor plate to mount the switch, but Case wants some outrageous price for all the parts for a new floor switch.
i have one if i can find it i will look and see tb
So I have a dumb question, that switch is missing on my machine but I have seen it in the parts catalog, what is is for? Is it to disengage the shuttle while loading?
Exactly, I have never found an aftermarket source for them - always fitted genuine - if anyone can find one I'm sure bowen will.
How do you delete a srrewed up post?
Ha! Well, not just yet. Bulgin in the UK make a very similar switch but it's only rated 2 amps DC. (# MP0042/3 ~ $9.00) http://www.bulgin.co.uk/Products/Switches/documents/16mmStainlessSwitch.pdf My solenoid is about 2.5 Ohms and it pulls right at 4 amps energized per my Fluke meter. So I need the switch to be rated 4-10 amps and hadrly any I have found are this heavy. This switch says it's manufactured by Case but it's hard to believe I can't find one. BTW alrman, what I really do for a living is build industrial electrical control panels. I may just buy the one from Case if I can't find some other part numbers to research. And the button is wired in parallel with the floor foot switch for the clutch; it does the same thing as the thumb button. View attachment SHUTTLE_SOLENOID.pdf
Can you mount a small relay somewhere and use a lower rated switch that easier to find?
D141486 Switch & a hugh wrench. Well that would be easy to wire if I could get a sealed relay down underneath somehow. But for now I have a lead on the correct switch and will know more later. I have contacted a foreign place that shows the exact same switch, but they have not responded with prices. Even if I find the Case switch cheap, I may have to buy a butt-load of them, which I don't need unless several of you need 1 or 2 and want to join the party. I wonder how much these switches cost in Auckland NZ? I have a son-in-law on the way there now to stay 2 weeks on a vacation with family. I could send him by the Case place to get me a thumb switch, if the price was cheap enough. My problem with the control valve at the moment is that I dont have any wrenches big enough for the large solenoid. That thing has a brace underneath that is in the way for almost any kind of tool. A pipe wrench seem no good, and it would take a powerful long deep well socket.:crazy My linkage is off at the moment. Do I need to put the linkage back on to screw off the large solenoid? I think the lever provides the stop, but I don't want to break something off up in the shuttle by twisting the solenoid. Can you put a pipe wrench on the solenoid housing vs. the bolt area? I don't know if this is a tin can or a piece of cast iron... I have a local mechanic that is suppose to be coming to help me with this, but he is about the most undependable dude I know; I don't think he likes coming out on service calls. It could be spring before he shows up. The dipstick also need a fairly large wrench that I may have but I have not found it yet. It's at least 1.5". I did get the hose clamp off the top side of the dipstick tube.:tong I don't have any oil in the shuttle at the moment because I am waiting to get these seals replaced. I do have the pan all back on and sealed up but I hope nothing will rust inside the housing with no oil in it. Also because of this I have not cranked it in several days to check my new battery box installation etc. We have had some pretty cool nights here already and it's supposed to be down to about 16 degrees the next 2 nights.
On the solonoid I usually use a large pair of muti-grips - pipe wrench would be fine - on the smooth part of solonoid. I use an 18" shifter - (cresent wrench US terminology?) on the nut (bigger size than fitting) for the oil filler pipe & a 1 1/2" on the fitting.
I just got all of my parts today (seal kits for all cylinders and the O rings for the shuttle valve). Unfortunately, it's not going to get above 20 degrees here in CT for the next few days so I'm gonna hold off for warmer weather. I was thinking that a smaller oil filter wrench might be able to grab the solonoid?
It's 20 degrees here this morning also. I went last night and got me a larger wrench set. http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-sae-jumbo-combination-wrench-set-925.html I got lots of tools, but I normally use smaller wrenches. Working on these machines is a new deal for me. It's wild that they can sell a set like this for $40. I'm gonna try a pipe wrench on the solenoid and hope the teeth won't hurt the solenoid. I don't know how hard it is to screw off. I did find the solenoid wire disconnect connection up on top of the shuttle. Mine also has another sensor of some sort just above the linkage on the left side. This will not have to be removed at all, but I want to know what it it is, because I have one cut wire hanging down in that area. I got a small wire brush to clean all the dirt/oil off so I can tell what it looks like.
I used a large pair of channel locks on the solenoid. It wasn't very tight, and I just snugged it up the same way. Be very careful when you remove it, there is a ball and spring detent between the control arm and the case, behind the solenoid. Check the spring, mine was only half there. New spring and ball, and it detents so definite I can't believe it.
Well I didn't do the O rings in the shuttle yet but I did rebuild my first cylinder (steering). Figured I'd start small. Check out how the old O Ring had poped out. I guess I know why it was leaking. lol.
Well I sorta found it, but not aftermarket; rather where Case gets it. I am 95% sure Cutler Hammer (Eaton) makes this and it may be a special. I was looking to buy a #W101P6-CX switch, but any version of the W101P would work. These are hard to find as I think they may be sold mostly to the Aeronautical division. Maybe for planes or rockets and they are still high US $ wherever you find them. I ordered mine from Newark Electronics. They show like $46.80 via this link, but I got a discount for my business with them. Newark was just the only place I found that had any stock, yet normally Newark is NOT cheap on anything, they just have TONS of inventory. http://www.newark.com/eaton/w101p3/switch-pushbutton-spst-no-10a-125v/dp/97F9019 It's a # W101P3, which has a slightly different sized/color button on top. The other difference is that the Case switch has flats for a wrench to tighten the button. (This is just aluminum and I will file off 2 places.) I have not installed this yet so I can't be 100% sure the threads are the same. But the little tiny screws are in the hardware along with soldier tabs which I should not need because my wire ends are there. This button is rated 5 Amps which is barely enough, and the DC rating is what makes it hard to find. You will find $3 switches even on Amazon but with AC ratings, or maybe 2 amps DC. My large solenoid pulls 4 amps when energized, and this is probably why these buttons fail. It's probably better to use the floor switch which is parallel and has a higher rating. So I saved a few bucks, but in hind sight paying Case $62 for this switch is not so out of line as I thought. Case probably buys these in lots of 100 and pays $15 each. Actually I got a lead on this place that may have these switches cheaper. http://www.cymparts.com/index.php?ws=showproducts&products_id=55423&cat=&subcat=&lang= But, I have never gotten any response from these folks which show the actual Case part number. If anyone reading this is in Malaysia, please call these folks and get a price. Cutler Hammer may be having the switches made in Malaylia.. BTW the new switch has a loud snap when you press it in. If you cannot hear and feel the snap, your switch is probably bad.
580SE Solenoid Thunb Button :update Just in case someone comes across this thread in the future... My OLD switch was made by a company called "Otto" and I think they still sell it. And the information/ratings I see on on this switch looks like a better choice than the Cutler Hammer. (which worked with no problems) For otto, it looks like this switch with the flat spots for a wrench is callled a "Special Shaped Bezel" From the "www.ottoexcellence.com" website I found only one place that might stock the switch and it's "www.hawkusa.com" If you just buy 1 they are $55, but if you get 10 they are like $11 each. I think Hawk Electronics is in IL. The photo above shows this to be a # P3-30017 which is confusing from the nomenclature breakdown. I would have selected a # P3-31111, which is a style 3, soldier, 1-N/O, 2.5Lbs/momenary, with a red button, but this does not have the flats. Before anyone orders a bunch of these this should be discussed. The only problem I had replacing the switch was that the wires up thru the tube was barely long enough to work with. I lost one screw in the process. I'm telling you these screws are tiny things. Down at the end of the tube is a grommet that was aready loose, but still the wiring harness needed to be 1" longer.
Evening all, Just suffering the intermittent clutch problem on my 580 and decided to haul out the switch from the gear lever again to see if I could encourage it to work reliably again, but alas no it is buggy and worn so it seems. Searching from tips above I eventually used a series of matches and ended on ebay with no luck at all. Then in industrial pushbutton switches is the original part (albeit in solder terminals) and plenty of stock so I am off International shopping for a couple of them to solve this annoying fault that is making gear changing harder on the move. http://www.ebay.com/itm/P1-31122-Ot...131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6cb21113
The switch I ordered from Newark was a # 97F9019, but now they show no longer available. The description showed soldier style but when I got it, the screws were there. It had some tabs to use, if you wanted to soldier it, but I did not use them. (See photo above) Good luck, these are not easy to find; at least cheap. The Case # was D141486 in early 2012. (~$63.00)
Hi bowen, Yes I thought they would be difficult with a few matches from sources in the low current version at 2A which would be doomed to fail I suppose. It is a really annoying fault that I didn't 'switch onto' for a while was making gear changes on the move very difficult; I had to 'time them' with the engine revs like a clutchless change. How I figured the switch area was buggy was the reversing alarm wouldn't terminate when the button clicked closed and was supposed to open the clutch and allow me to change direction for example. The switches are on their way from the U.S. which I guess is up on the North East side there and will take about ten days to reach me I'd reckon, will advise how the first one works out. One thing I have found is with the red rubber boot over the switch in Winter it can be hard to depress, so I am hoping the new one has a smoother action with less wear perhaps. Actually in the few minutes I did before putting the 580 away in its shed as a huge rain dump set in, the switch was working well, I hope the problem isn't the fasteners' coming loose as it is twisted into the gear handle, as they didn't have much tension on them when I removed it yesterday.
You are correct; a 2A will NOT work. Even the correct switch may not last that long. If yours does not have the foot switch you could install one. Like a microswitch in the floor panel. On the 580SE it has one that is wired in parallel with the thumb button. These are rated for higher current if you get the right one. (Must be HD DC rated) And the boot cover may not come with the switch; mine did not. Case sells these and they are fairly cheap. Maybe $3 (# D138252 I think)
Hi Bowen, There are two clutch switches, one in the gear lever and the other in the front hoist lift lever. Don't think I'd have a foot free for the floor addition. I bought about four of these recently in a U.S. shipment from Finney Corp as you said not much cost. Biggest problem was the old perished ones' were spreading all over the levers' and the mess really took cleaning away, think I used kerosene to mop up the residue before I fitted the new caps which made them a lot more positive to use.
Looks like an Otto P3- switch you can go to their web site to measure https://www.otto-controls.com/-/media/products/literature/P3-Product-Bulletin.ashx Good luck they are $12.00 to $36.00