I had the tractor out tonight for the 1st time in a week or so. It started rather hard but I thought maybe it was from sitting? I drove about 100-150meters and it died as I turning into pit. Fuel gauge is reading a little less then half, but I dumped 5 gallons in just in case. It got dark and all I had was a little flash light and my multimeter. I am getting 12v to the injector pump with the key on. In the last couple weeks I had the problem twice of the tractor dying while I was driving but I thought I traced it to a hack job in the wiring where someone had poorly connected the injector power to the power to the ingnition. Now I'm not sure what it could be. From what I was told these Cummins only need power to the injector pump in order to start, if I'm getting power then I'm thinking maybe it's fuel related. there is a chance I got abit of air in the fuel line when I fixed the sending unit since I drained the tank using the fuel line at the bottom of the tank. Any ideas where to start?
You could try to eliminate the fuel system. When it stops just crack your bleed screw loose on top of the filters. If there is no fuel there then you have some kind of restriction.
Inline fuel filter Emerson - look there first.
Damm I forgot my Manual at home today, I was going to look at the wiring diagram and see if where these Hacky wires go. Is the inline filter supposed to be on the bottom close to the outlet of the fuel tank in the hard line? If it is then I don't have one.
If you have power to the fuel cutoff on the injector pump, and the engine is turning fast enough, it's not a wiring problem. The inline filter is on the lift pump on the engine.
think it was just air.. bleed the lines and it fired up.. ran it for abit and it died again. going to bleed it agian today
SO I went out today and cracked the line and bleed the system until I had no air. Backhoe eventually started and all was good, I used it for 5-10 minutes and it stalled again. Opened the hood and bleed the system again which seemed to take alot longer then the 3 other attempts. took awhile to start but it did and again it ran for 5 min then stalled. I checked the fuel line, and I see no signs of fuel leaking. I wiped clean the lines from the lift pump since it they were dirty and I couldn't tell if they were leaking so I'll check those in abit. Am I missing something? would it hurt to install a fuel pressure gauge in order to monitor the lift pump pressure? I'm just thinking for down the road when it starts to get weak.
I had almost exactly the same thing once w/ my 580 superK. I don't even like thinking about it, because I never did solve it to my satisfaction. I know that I changed both filters, but I have a lingering sense that it self resolved. I know from working on other machines that not seeing fuel leaking from a suction line means little. You can get air in through a leak that fuel won't come out of. You might try wrapping a rag around an air hose and putting a little pressure in your fuel tank. Good Luck, Mitch
Good idea.. I'm heading out now and I'll have a look and see if I see any leaks, worst case is I get it started and bring in to the house so I';m closer to my tools
The In-line filter is along the inside frame rail. looks like a regular automotive fuel filter.
I had the exact same symptoms on a tractor just a couple of weeks ago. After troubleshooting the fuel supply (filters, lines, screens, primer, etc.) we found the female end of the terminal on the shutoff solenoid wasn't tight although it appeared and looked tight. When turning your key to the acc position and connecting the terminal to your solenoid you should hear it click. On mine, I could wiggle the connector with it fully seated and every once in awhile the solenoid would click. I cleaned the terminal with a pencil eraser and tighten with pliers. Cheap and easy fix. Hope yours is that simple.
Thanks Boone I'll take a look. I called my Uncle (former owner) he told me the proper way to bleed the system.. I was missing more then a few step. I got it going and used it for abit but had to come back to the house after the wife called.. I hope to get back out tonight but the sun is going down fast. My inlin efilter has been remove,, should I put one back in the system? I htink I have 1-2 that I used to use on my old ATV.. just a clear filter about 1" in diameter?
Are you certain there is no in-line filter, as mentioned by others, some K Case had the filter attached to the lift pump, others had the filter against the left frame rail, have to crawl under machine to spot it.
The inline filter for an atv sounds way to small, and would probably cause a restriction. It needs to be for at least a 3/8 line. The original equipment is more of a fine strainer than a filter, on the suction side of the lift pump, the spin on is the fine filter.
I've been under, spot where the filter should be has been replaced with a rubber hose. I'll look into getting a filter today if I have time to run out during work.
They sometimes get some scale caught in the fuel shut off tap, so disconnect fuel line at the lift pump & blow some air back into the tank to be sure it is clear.
4th or 5th or 6th Attempt to bleed the system has failed. I tried tightening different fitting every time. Tomorrow I will get it going and bring it up to the house closer to my tools. Going to pick up the filters tomorrow. Is the there a chance the lift pump is getting weak and not pushing enough?
Like alrman said, remove fuel cap, disconnect line where it connects to lift pump, then blow back through it with air to make sure it's clear. Install an inline strainer in fuel line, Wix 33270 or NAPA 3270, it looks like a typical inline filter but it's actually a 120 mesh strainer. All you want to do is trap large debris that would fowl lift pump, fine debris will pass through lift pump to be trapped by spin on filter. Check rubber supply hoses carefully. A small pin hole in one can actually suck air yet not drip fuel. Also, how does the supply line connect to lift pump, just a rubber hose to a barb, or does it have a brass nut to a thread connection on lift pump?
Thanks for the filter Number Willie59 NAPA is where I'm heading. I'm going to grab some new rubber fuel line too. The only spot I have a rubber line is where they inline filter should be everything else is a hard line. So it has a compression fitting on the top of the pump.
If you have the arrangement that has only hard line except for the small portion of rubber line with filter, that's the early 580K version, shown on bottom of diagram below. One thing to look at is items #2 and #9, they're rubber compression seals for the fuel lines. Age causes them to get hard as a rock, could possibly suck air yet not drip fuel.
Yes that's it.. But with out #23.. I'll check rubber seals when I install the inline filter
Wow.. called around to 3 Napa Stores only 2 stores had 1 of the 3 filters, prices were all around $20 each, Called Parts for Trucks all 3 filters for $20
So.. had abit of time tonight not alot.. Disconnected the feed to the lift pump and found a Check valve of sorts, it looks to be in working order? I blew the line back into the tank, shut off the feed from the tank and removed the rubber hose I had where the inline filter should be. The filter I got is about 1" shorter the the space I have available, and since the 2 lines are different levels I'm think I'm going to cut the hard line off the tank to make it easier to fit the rubber fuel lines. Also I checked and the rubber compression seal on the pump side looks pretty worn but the fitting on the tank side is a regular brass compression fitting. Unfortunately I'm heading out this weekend so I won't have time to work on it anymore. I wished I had more time since I'll be able to talk to my uncle who is the one who's worked on the Backhoe for the last few years. His opinion right now is that I'm not bleeding it correctly, he says it's always been a Pain to bleed..
Hey, Emerson, too bad i didnt see this post sooner. had the exact same problem as you did. my 580k also was missing the inline pre-filter to the lift pump. in the end it was our lift pump that needed replacing even though it looked to function properly. my theory is that when the prefilter gets clogged with dirt from the tank, the previous owners just ditch them and without the prefilter, dirt gets into the diaphragm and either cloges the internal passages of the bladder or prevents the bladder itself from functioning properly. in the end we replaced the lift pump, all filters (including reinstalling the inline prefilter) and solenoid at the pump (due to a leak between the plastic and metal housing). ever since we have had no problems...
Soo.. I installed an inline filter.. removed the check valve before the lift pump ( It started to leak and needed to be replaced).. I bled the system, and cracked each injector.. Tractor was running great I had it idling for 20 min or so. I went and changed the oil in my truck and came back and gave it a once over and saw 2 injectors are leaking at the base,, ***K me.. I figure I must have turned the injector when I cracked the line.. So now I`m assuming I have to remove the return off all 4m and the inlet to the leaking injectors and then remove clean and re-install the leaking ones? I was going to bleed them and the return line but someone told me to bleed it at the feed..
What do yo mean by "leaking at the base"? Are you sure it's not just the injection line nut where you cracked them to bleed injection line?
I cracked it at the top where the line is fitted.. now it's leaking between the injector body and the large nut close to the block.. how are these injector help in? threaded?
Still hard for me to know exactly what's leaking, I've never seen one of those injectors leak where the body halves of the injector are joined, then seep fuel at the securing nut. Sometimes a leak can be difficult to pinpoint. I typically wash leak area with starting fluid or brake cleaner, blow it completely dry with air nozzle, start engine and immediately look for source of leak, sometimes it takes two or three repeats until I'm certain I've located it.
I'll take a closer look tomorrow.. from what I remember it looked like air bubbles coming up between the large nut used to thread the injector in and the body,, Almost where the #2 is but in towards the body on the injector. Looks like in the picture that they're 1 piece though. is it better the bleed the inject at the i fed or on the return line?
In most cases the injector doesn't require bleeding unless the injection pump has been run dry. If you do bleed injection lines to purge air from hyd head in pump, you could either crack the lines at pump or at injector, whichever is easier. If you spilled some diesel (by bleeding line) around injector body, some of the fuel could leak down into the injector hole. Once engine is started and begins to heat up, it could cause bubbles around injector where the heat is evaporating the liquid fuel. As I stated earlier, if I bleed injector lines, I wash area well with starting fluid, blow dry with blow gun, and repeat until there is no fuel on components. Then start engine and inspect for leaks. As for cracking injector lines, whether at pump or injectors, the trick is the "lock down" of the line nut. Many times the lines (because of bends) don't connect to injection pump or injectors perfectly "straight on". The trick is to run nut down by hand, put your wrench on the nut, take a small ball peen hammer and lightly tap the steel line at a point near the nut while slowly turning the nut with the wrench. Try to tap the line radially as much as possible. Tapping the line with the hammer while tightening nut helps to seat the tapered end of the line in the socket of the injection pump or injector. Once nut is fairly hand snug with wrench, give it about 30 - 40 lb sq/ft lock down.
Thanks Willie59.. I didn't clean the base of the injectors of so there's a good chance it's like you said (fuel heating up). Tomorrow I'll spray some brake cleaner on it and see what I see. Luckily for me it started raining because I was going to go out tonight and remove the lines and see if I could tighten the injectors. when you "lock down" the line nut do you only do that if you complete remove the nut? what if you just break it until it leaks?
I tap the line even if I just crack the nut for bleeding. It really helps "seating" the injection line during lock down, never had one leak after doing this.
I cleaned the injectors and blew them off. tractor is idle right now all seems good! Thanks Willie!