I need some assistance to help diagnose my issue. It is a phase 3 - 1989 Case 580K - shifter is on control panel. When I go to move the TLB in any gear it revs but doesn't move until it gets to a higher RPM (seems like more hydraulic pressure). It then clunks hard and start to move like I was dropping the clutch. The transfer case was ran low and/or out of oil (I didn't check this with the machine warm and running - but might be over full now). This was noticed after pushing out a stump and it started "lurching". If I have the wheels suspended and looking down into the belly of the beast (access plate off) the drive line appears to be powering back into the shuttle from the transmission. When I do have it engaging/disengaging it sounds like I am hitting my clutch disengage to change gears. At times it does come into power at low RPMs but isn't consistent. Is there a procedure to bleed the line? is that possibly an issue? I moved the machine out of where it was at to a more level area where it can be worked on, but don't want to damage anything so hoping for assistance with troubleshooting this further so I am not throwing parts at it. Any assistance will be welcomed.. PS anyone know where you can get download a service manual for this thing?
I would check the oil level (dipstick in front of backhoe control tower) check it with engine off but trans warm. Also be sure and put hyd. oil in transmission. Check your declutch buttons on shifter and loader control handle, make sure they're not sticking.
Case 580K Phase 3 JJG 20000 and up service manual is on EBAY as electronic CD copy but I haven't found the instant download. I have JJG0027655 machine and need to order one also.
Ok, yeah I have checked it with the engine off and warm it was low for sure - I corrected that issue and still has the problem. Does the transmission itself fill in a different location or does it pull the fluid from the transaxle? The declutch seems to work correctly without a sticky button - everytime I push it you can hear it click on and off. When it is actually spinning (high RPM) the tires it disengages also like expected every time it is pushed. When it is lurching it acts like I am pushing the switch on and off also. @RHuddleston I have found a couple places to purchase it for download - some sketchy so hoping someone here has a good link to one. If I find a good link I will put it in here myself.
There is no transmission or transfer case, other than the transaxle and the shuttle. Just like a car, "transaxle" means transmission and axle combined. On your backhoe, there is the transaxle which is your 4-speed transmission and differential in one unit, and bolted to the back of the engine is the shuttle, which contains the torque convertor, and controls forward and reverse. The oil for both units is checked at the dipstick in front of backhoe controls. You could use regular hydraulic oil in a pinch, but it needs to be Hy-Tran Ultra; because it contains friction modifiers for your brakes, which are submerged in the oil, inside the transaxle. No ATF! How low was your oil? If you are real lucky, you have an electrical issue, but if the oil was very low... I would change the transmission filter, which is the horizontal spin on on the shuttle. Cut it open and look for metal, or disc fiber. Good Luck
@ Steph Sedgwick I just ordered a download PDF I will let you know how it goes.
I was very low, when it engages it engages very solid. It does in all gears also, that is what is odd. I will pull the filter and cut it open looking for metal shavings. When you say maybe it is electrical do you know what I can check in that area? I thought the shuttle/transmission was the same however - looking in the parts catalog it shows the "transmission" as a unit that is attached off the back of the engine and it appears the shuttle is within the axle housing that is why I wasn't sure if it was actually using different fluid. I used a fluid that is I think it was MS1207 compliant (I need to double check the number don't have it in front of me but it was what was recommended for the shuttle with brakes). I understand am ok in the end if I need to rebuild the transmission however it doesn't act like a slippage at all, when it engages as I said it has full power (in all gears). It seems like a pressure issue, I just have no clue where to start and only have diesel gauges (injector) currently. Like something is sticking and once it over comes that point it engages as soon as I release throttle, the pressure drops? it uncouples. Is there a rebuild kit or a gasket kit for the valve body? or a good way to test this? When I do get moving and hit the decoupling switch it feels exactly the same as it is when it does it automatically so it could be wiring I just don't know where to look for that either. The switch is not sticking from what I can tell (will unplug to double check been raining the past few days but will get out this weekend either way).
Is it ok to post a service manual here?
Not sure if you can post it directly here but a link to it I think is ok.
Yep, I typed wrong. I thought about soon as I looked through the floor on one this afternoon. On a superK, (K phase 3), forward and reverse is in the transaxle. The only thing in the unit bolted to the engine is the torque converter and the pump. To eliminate the declutch system entirely, just unplug the solenoid on top of the transaxle, this will eliminate sticky buttons, rubbed wires, etc. If the wheels are on the ground and the 4-speed is in low, when you put the shuttle lever in gear and the tractor won't move, is the driveshaft turning?
Today went out to look at it a little, the drive shaft looked to be turning almost the whole time (floor is currently open). When in gear and stopped it wasn't turning as soon as I let off the brake and hit the gas it started turning like I would expect. It looks like the speed might be jumping on the shaft while it is turning when it is cutting out. I will get down and unplug the solenoid to see if that makes a difference. I am thinking it is likely going to be a rebuild on the transmission seeing the drive shaft like it is. I am not able to go out and work on it until this weekend, so I will try to move it with the floor open so I can get a better look at the drive shaft while moving the equipment (when it is actually lurching)
I wanted to give a quick update - I don't have it corrected that I am aware of yet however - I have disconnected the decoupler solenoid and with a couple minute warm up it wasn't lurching. Now I will not know for sure until I can actually run the machine a little bit under load and to full operating temperature. I will put the floor back in it this weekend and run it for a few hours under load and see if that is the problem. Does the service manual have a complete wiring diagram that outlines loom locations? I will need to trace down to figure out where wiring might be rubbing, as the switch itself is in very good condition. @RHuddleston how does that manual look?
Ok, I was able to use the backhoe a little bit this weekend with the decouple disconnected. It does seem to be related as far as I can tell. I didn't have any problems, I did only use the backhoe for about 45 minutes but had 0 problems. I couldn't really use it a lot until later in the day on Sunday due to the rain this last week and how my property holds onto water. I should be able to use it some more as the week progresses however I am guessing that is the issue and now I need to try to figure out if it is the wiring or the switch. Thanks for all the input!