I have a 1989 case 580k that is new to me. I'm going to need an engine heater to get it started this winter. I'm looking for something I can install myself relatively easily. What do you recomend, a block heater or a coolant heater, or ? Something I can install with limited experience. Thanks in advance.
I would go with a KATS or Zerostart 58mm frost plug style immersion heater. Easy and cheap. Take a close look, it probably already has a heater on it. Amazon.com or NAPA. I think that model of engine has a spot on the exhaust manifold side of the block for a threaded heater that screws in. But, good luck getting that 17mm plug out. That's the OEM style heater.
Ok does this show where it should go ?
Here's a pic from the parts book showing the frost/welch plug type heater.
I don’t see the threaded port. It’s lower on the block than your pictures show. About 1/2 way between the head and oil pan.
Cummins part# 3500030 for the 750 watt soft plug version.
I have a Oem block heater and oil pan heater on my 580k it was on it when I bought it ,plug them in for a couple of hours and fires right up perfectly,really like it over the either button. I think case still shows the heaters available that’s the way to go.
Ok I took some more photos. There is a plug on the side of the oil pan, also one on the housing of the lower radiator hose. I took a few more in case someone can see something I don't. Most of the pictures are on the exhaust side. One or two from the other side. I lost daylight so it was hard to see what I was taking a picture of. Hopefully you can see what I should be looking for
A couple more photos
Here’s how mine look if that helps...
Mine came to me with a block heater. If It is away from a power source it usually needs a sniff of ether. Ether is a powerful drug, it must be used in moderation. I spray at the air intake. By the time it passes through the filter system, the engine gets a very small dose. That is all it should have. If that doesn't work I start a generator & use a heat gun in the air intake. Open the hood, remove the paper filter & heat the intake with a 1500 watt heat gun. It is critically essential that two batteries be in excellent condition. Cables get overwhelming, but remember each point where two conductive object touches another, it will oxidize. Where wire (stranded) joins with a terminal it can oxidize. Copper oxide offers resistance. Each pressure connection will oxidize over time & give resistance. New, or well protected connections are needed all the way from battery to starter & back. Most machines use engine block & frame as one way current path. The faces of these connections will oxidize over time. Take the trouble to ensure each metal to metal contact is perfect. In some cases this involves adding a "ground" cable to the starter frame from the battery. Starters need full voltage. Batteries are able to give 60% as much power at 0 degrees F they would at 60 degrees F. The health of your batteries is very important. In two or four battery systems the batteries must be identical. I've heard extreme practices such as draining oil, storing it inside, removing batteries, storing inside. Even my uncle's system of building a wood fire under the engine to warm it.
My 580 only has one battery that I keep on a tender, I also have the button in the cab for either but never cared to use that. I plug both oil pan and block heater in give it a little time maybe one to two hours depending on how cold out,starts up like you just shut it off and starts making heat so I can plow a lot of neighbors driveways for free lol!
Heat makes all the difference. Mine is stored in a building with no electricity. I can start a generator to heat it up, or run a very long cord, or park beside the garage.
I'm good to go with 2 good batteries and I cleaned all the connectors and ground to the frame and had the starter rebuilt so I should be good there. I tried to start it on a cold morning in the 20°'s and realized i need a heater. Its 35° today and it cranks over once then the starter makes a sound like it has disengaged. I'm not sure if that is another problem, but when its warmer it starts immediately. I wish i could park it indoors but no going to happen this year. So it sounds like i need a heater for the oil pan and another for the block ? I'm sure I can get the oil pan plug out but not sure on the other plug. I still have to find it first. I don't see anything on the exhaust side that looks like a plug I could remove from the block. Would an oil pan heater be enough. I hope to move some snow banks with it this winter.
Yes that helps but I don't see a plug on the block where your's is
A block heater is better than an oil pan heater for starting, in my opinion. If the block is warm, then the crank and bearings will be warm enough that the oil won't drag. The oil pan heater is for starting when it's way below zero and the oil won't flow. You can use a magnetic oil pan heater and one on the block also, but a core plug block heater is the most effective way to warm an engine. You have a factory hole for the heater somewhere, but I can't tell you where it is. Look at the katz site for the engine or model number and it will give you a location and size of the plug they recommend. It will be in the upper part of the block, the water/coolant only circulates around the cylinders, it does not circulate around the crankcase/lower part of the block. Possibly the only place will be in the head on some model? Other option is a circulating" tank style heater, hooked up with heater hoses, but a block heater is better.
I can't see where it would go.
In the first picture, it goes in place of a freeze plug on the same side as your starter. I installed the block heater Coaldust referenced above. look at Steve Favia's second picture above. Pop out the freeze plug, insert the heater, tighten threads and route the cord and you should be all set. I can get a picture of mine Friday.
As JWeir said... compare your picture with the one posted by Steve Favia
The expansion (freeze) plug is hiding behind the turbo charger drain line. If you have a cab heater that works a tank style heater would be a good choice. Warm in the cab as soon as you start the engine.
I would think you could use any of the freeze plugs right? Block heater would probably be better than oil pan heater like Delmer said.
Your diesel needs to compress heat into a smaller space to raise temperature above ignition. Heating oil, I suppose makes it flow easier, but modern oil, it isn't a big problem. heating the cylinders is a big factor. A block heater is best. Intake air heaters are OK. Glow plugs are great, but use up precious battery power.
Wow, ok that's what I needed. Something even a dummy could understand. Honestly I wasn't sure if that was the freeze plug or not. How am I going to get that out ! Thank you Jmil, Tinkerer, and Jweir Willie B, Alrman, coal dust, Delmer and Steve Favia and anyone else. It took a whole village of mechanics to teach me something lol, I'm even more of a beginner than I thought.. How does a tank style work ? I really think I should go with the block heater because that sounds best. Do I need any certain tools to make it possible to get that plug out ? Could I possibly get it part way out or screw it up so I can't run the machine ?
Johnnymc, I looked on line for a video of the replacement of a freeze plug and found a lot of junk. The one I attached should give you the idea...skip to the larger ones. I usually pull them out with a pair of vice-grips. Make sure you sand the hole nice and clean, and install the heater...usually the element is pointing up...NOTE: Do not plug the heater in until the cooling system has been purged. The element will melt down with no coolant around it, if plugged in.
Oh, and do switch to 10W30 oil in winter.
I don’t change oil weight for the winter once you get you’re block heater in you’ll be good.The experts will chime in on getting the freeze plug out I know how I’d do it,but the real experts will tell you the right way,this forum has really helped me out,great people on here! always offering great advise which I really appreciate!
Ok ! If it's really as simple the video, I can do that. What about the fact it's a 31 year old engine . It would be nice if it will pivot on center like the one in the video. I'm probably going to need some more advice, but I should be able to do that. I think I'll get a heater before I start. Is there one I can order online that you guys recomend or do I need to buy locally ? How does it secure to the block without threads ? Actually I thought freeze plugs had threads and just the middle pushed out, duh. That's why I didn't think those two big obvious things on the side of the engine were plugs, duh again. Thanks guys.
Take a look at the catalogue from Kat's Heaters . It has lots of information on installation. I've never used their product, but they popped up on a web search.
The heater has an o-ring that seals in the hole left by removing the plus...that is why I said sand it nice and clean. There is a bar on the back side that has a screw on the outside. As you tighten the screw, the bar locks the plug in. Be sure to drain the coolant prior to removing the plug, or you will get a nice bath. As far as it being old, it is not like a bolt that the threads could seize...these cups are just a press fit, and hitting one side will usually cause the plug to spin, at which point you can grab it to pull it out. Even if it fell in, you could use needle nosed plyers to get it back in the hole to be extracted.
Ok excellent. It will probably be a few days until I get one and get at it. Will this thread still be available and you guys see it if I have questions or would I need to start a new one ?
It, and us, will be right here.
Well, technically they are expansion plugs. Those holes that they are in, are cast in the block when the mold is filled with molten metal. Their purpose is to get the sand out of casting when it has cooled. The skirt of the plugs are expanded so they fit tightly when driven into the holes. I have seen blocks that cracked from the coolant freezing and rarely do the expansion (freeze) plugs pop out to prevent acrack in the water jacket.
I can vouch for that. I know that due to a breakdown in communication between me & two sons. & it had to be a newly rebuilt 427 Chevy truck engine.
Tinkerer I could see how the term expansion plug could be thought to mean the plug allowed ice to expand. That's what I thought. Now I know better ! I had no idea that they could be actually tapped out.