I have been searching treads and did not find much on what I am dealing with. I have a 580L that will not move in forward or reverse. The operator said it just stopped. So far I have checked all the relays and the switch for the forward and reverse and all seems well. I would like to test the clutch disconnect switches before I assume there is any trouble with the internals of the trans. It has fluid and does not smell burnt or look discolored. I would appreciated any advice on testing the switches and wires or a diagram of how to trace the switches to the trans. We bought this tractor to do some work on our property. We are almost done and I am basically a weekend mechanic so any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Richard
will it move when it's cold ? trevor b
No it sat for 2 days before I could get to it and it will not do anything forward or backwards. I had the inspection cover off the floor and was watching the drive shaft. It didn't even try to turn. That is the main reason why I want to test the disconnect. It is like the transmission is not even connected to the engine.
silly question -is the gearshift in neutral trevor b
I am not familiar with the 580L, but, one thing that does get overlooked sometimes on electric shift machines is the park brake lever if it has one. If it raises up just a bit the switch will interupt the circuit for the shifter. Some of them are located where they can be kicked or bumped. Just a thought, and prolly not much of one. lol
Trevor, yes I tried in all gears... the linkage seems to be working correctly. MJ, I will look for a switch on the emergency brake. Thanks
I meant no it is not in neutral, lol
Welcome to HEF Richardg! Assuming you have a shuttleshift (FNR lever & 4sp manual) you need to figure if problem is electrical, hydraulic or mechanical. Is the back up alarm still connected? If it is it will sound if reverse is engaged & electrics are OK. If not get someone to assist, & with ign on, cycle the FNR lever back & forth & check to see if the solonoids on top of the transmission are clicking. If they are electrics are OK. If not, check all fuses/relays etc & read this thread - I have also seen the FNR levers fail (they are switches) - but not a common problem If the solonoids are clicking, you need to check the control valve modulator, see this thread - That should keep you busy for a while!
Thanks alrman, I don't know why I didn't run across some of these posts in my search. Anyway. I have been through all the relays. They all cycle when shifting the switch from forward to reverse. Doesn't mean they are all working) I tested the fwd/rv switch for power and it is receiving and sending 12v. I just started figuring out that the solenoid that controls the valve body was on top the trans. I did not check it for voltage, however I remember hearing it click and moved on. I will try some more testing this weekend. I might as drop the trans pan? I didn't crawl under it... does it have a pan? lol
I would say that alrman hit the nail on the head. We used to be a Case dealer and I replaced a lot of those snap rings. Seams like when it gets cold out they break.
The solenoids seem to be working fine. I pulled the cap on the front of the valve body and the clip was in place. I pushed on the plunger with my finger and it stopped after an inch or so. The back one seems to be in place however I am reluctant to pull the plate on the back. Bc I can't see it well. Any advice?
You need to be 100% sure the circlips are OK. Did you remove the valve from the transmission to inspect?
I did not remove the whole valve body. Just the cap for the front circlip. It was in place. (see blue circle) I guess I can try to remove the whole valve body. I want to try to inspect the strainer on the bottom RHS of the trans first to see if it is plugged. Just to add to the confusion I have found that the alternator is not charging. Pulled it and had it tested and it is ok. The switched 12v power is not getting to the alternator to tell it to start charging. I checked all the fuses and they are all ok. (left the battery hooked up to jumper cables for a while and tried to shift it to rule out the possibility that the battery did not have enough juice to engage the solenoids and that is not the case. It still did not want to move. My time got cut short b/c I was called into work. The most aggravating part is I can't get back on it tomorrow... Hopefully I can fid some time Sunday to work on it. If my boss doesn't call me back into work. Thanks again
I pulled the valve body, It all seemed to be ok, the solenoid is working and both the circlips are in place. I also pulled the screen and inspected it. I has some trash close to the inspection plate but it was nowhere near being plugged up. Does this trans have a pump up front by the convertor like a regular transmission that goes in a car? or does it run off hydraulic pump? I think this thing is not moving fluid. I pulled the dipstick to check the level after I started it and level did not drop... Is there any way to check to see if the pump is doing something? Or does anybody have any other ideas? The pic of my drain pan showing the stuff that was in the bottom of the oil. Is that enough to worry about?
Then I would disconnect the clutch cutout solinoid, and if it works then go after the switches in the handles.
Sorry it wasn't an easy fix for you, there's always something new to go wrong..... Yes there is a transmission charge pump, a convertor, & flexplate (could be broken) - any one of these could be a problem too. Pressure testing will tell you something, if there is any, a special adapter is required for a flow test of the pump. PM sent
I could not find any other solenoids on the trans other than what is on the valve body, where is it? I tested the switches with the key on engine off and I could hear what I thought was the solenoids on the valve body clicking
Thanks. I did crawl under it while it was running and look through the hole below the torque converter and it is spinning.
There is no cut-out solonoid, as such, on those transmissions. The de-clutch works by simply deactivating power to the the fwd/rev solonoids. So if they are both clicking when FNR lever is moved, the de-clutch should not be the problem.
That was the assumption I made when I heard the f/r solenoid clicking. But you know that they say about assumptions...
If it was me... one of the first things I'd check is the trans oil level with the engine off (should be way high). Then start the engine and see if the oil level pulls down. This will tell you if the charge pump is pumping oil. We have seen lots of charge pumps go out. Usually they dump oil out of the bellhousing, but......
Thanks I did notice that. After I refilled the trans I started it up and checked the level again. The level did not change much at all which made me ask the question about the pump in a previos post. Hopefully I plan on doing some pressure tests soon. It will be all over but the crying then...
Guess it is time to start crying... I tested the pressure at these 3 ports on the valve body. And well no matter what position the fwd/rev lever was in I had zero pressure. With that info and the fact that the oil level does not drop when the engine is running, I am pretty dang sure that the pump is not working. Unless there is a chance there is a blockage somewhere else. So if I get brave enough to pull the trans. What are my odds for replacing the front pump and the rest of the trans being ok? If I decide to do that does anyone have ay advice on what to look for inside the trans to rule out any additional damage? I would hate to replace the pump only to find something else wrong when I put it back in. Is there anything else I should check??? Thanks again for all yalls help.
It sounds like the drive tangs in the charge pump gear that are driven by the converter have sheared off.
Goose, Are we talking about this gear and the tabs I highlighted? Have you seen this before? Do you think the rest of the trans is ok? and do you think it is better to replace the whole pump of tear into the old one and swap the gear? I prolly could ask a lot more questions but I will try to control myself... Thanks
Yes those are the tangs I was talking about and yes I have seen them shear a few times. Usually on high hour machines or when the pump is trashed and something lodges in the gears and locks them up. If you have no supply pressure at all this is probably what happened.
clutch cutout the clutch cutout button on the floor sticks in the down position on mine. have to lift it with pliars.
Maybe this is what you need to replace first.
I was hoping the switches were my problem, but after testing all the electrics extensively I ruled it out. Next year sometime I am going to talk myself into trying to pull the trans. I hope I can get by just replacing the front charge pump and there was not any other significant damage done to the rest of the transmission.
Update, I finally got up the nerve to pull the trans. It wasn't as bad as I thought. I pulled the front pump and opened it up and found that the bushing or bearings (20) on the small gear (21) had failed and the pin sheared causing the small gear to bind and break the 2 TC teeth off the big main gear (18). I hope to replace the pump and the TC soon. Thanks for yalls help, Please say a prayer for me I would appreciate it!!!
good for you i had to change mine it was fine cold but if you shut down for lunch you were SOL till next day trevor b
Yeah ours just stopped dead... I am keeping my fingers crossed. There was a good bit of metal in the filter. I hope there is not any significant damage to the rest of the trans.
I got it moving again! I would like to thank everyone for helping, especially alrman. Hopefully the rest of the trans is fine. I plan on running it a day and changing the fluid and filters. Then pray any metal shavings didn't get to anything. See that attached pics of what failed in the pump. It looks like the small gear bushing or needle bearing fail causing it to bind then the ears on the big gear broke off. Hope this helps someone else later down the road Thanks again Boys!!!
Did you get your alternator charging problem figured out. Mine is not charging either but I have power where it needs to be. I'm almost certain now tht I blew the alternator lightbulb on the dash and this is where the alternator gets its field voltage I think.
No, I had the alternator tested and it is OK it will charge fine when I jump 12v to the switched terminal. Mine is not sending the 12v switched to the alt. either... :bash
Let me say this more succintly. If your alternator light is "burnt out" your alternator wont charge. The alternator needs the alternator light circuit to provide excitation current to the field coil before the alternator will start to charge. Burnt out light bulb = NO charging I did the same thing...alternator works fine at the shop on thier check out stand. Just wont charge in the hoe. I believe I blew my "ALT" bulb using one of those Schumacher charge/start battery charger units from walmart. I have had this same "start mode" blow two headlights out before on a 1995 Grand Am also...live and learn.
I think I follow you now.... Maybe you should tell me one more time.:slomo I pulled that dash off when I was testing, I will put an Ohm meter on that bulb and see what I get this weekend.
I just now pulled my bulbs and cleaned the contacts real good. Re-installed into the back of the dash. Key on and now alternator light comes on...start engine, full voltage, alternator alternating!!! (before when I told you it was just a theory but there really was not much left for it to be. I wish inside the fender well was a little better sealed. My fuse box and my dash both are dirt/dust covered. I'm amazed the fuze block has lasted as long as it has. So, if you have voltage at the alternator fuse with the key on and the fuse checks good then next stop is the ALT light bulb and its contacts. From there its directly to the back of the alternator. The W pin on the alternator is for the Tach BTW.
Something weird is going one. Are some posts duplicated in two different threads?
Nope, I posted in my alternator thread and to the op since I notice he had pretty much the same problem as Me. Double post maybe, illegal in the forums, probably.
Well I doubt it's illegal, but I was a tad confused. I was gonna reply because I have been told that a bad alternator light bulb would prevent the alterrnator from "kick starting" the charge. So I suppose all should look at that light every time you turn the switch on before starting it. It just looked like I was replying to a post with the wrong title.:beatsme
You were right kb, I pulled the bulb. It was fine but all the contact points were dirty. I cleaned them up put it back in a the light came on and the Tach worked when I fired it up! Thanks!
help I just replaced the pump because it was bad, still have no pressures, checked snap rings, replace oil and cleaned screen and verified fir seems to work, did I miss a step that has to be done to bleed it or something? I have a case 580l 95 year model, all electronics seem to work and valve seems fine any ideas what I missed? only thing I can think of is I missed some priming or something when I replaced the pump, hard to believe new pump is bad, I also saw TC spinning.
I replaced pump and still get no flow, is there some purge I have to do or something? replaced oil, cleaned screen tested electrics all seem good, case 580l 95 year, a little frustrated now as I am not sure what else as I have tested everything suggested on these sites.
I'm not a tech by any means. I got through my issue with the help of thease guys. With being said I will give you my 2 cents. The fluid level test is a good way to rule out the pump. Does the level drop when you crank the engine? Did you do a pressure test with a gauge?
no I have not used a gauge yet, replaced pump at it was pressure tested before and that was bad. replaced unit that was bad, not sure were all the pressure points are and what type of hoses I need to test with, one shop said maybe cracked pickup hose but that is somewhat hard to believe that would be a bad pump.
Pull the dip stick and see where the fluid level is at. Then put the stick back in and start the engine. Pull the stick again and see if the level drops.
That was the first thing I tried does not look like it changed much.
Man I'm willing to bet the gauge test is gonna produce the same result... I'm afraid I don't know enough about that trans to figure out what else it could be.
Welcome to HEF wesleyhey! :drinkup All transmissions are self priming. So there is nothing you can do externally. When the transmission was refitted did you check the alignment of the drive tangs on the convertor & the charge pump? It would seem to me the pump is not turning. Was there any difficulty refitting the transmission? The transmission adapter housing should have gone up flush with the engine bellhousing - without the use of any bolts to pull them together .....
It seemed like there was not really any force needed, seemed like it went on fairly easy. Wonder if I just had a bad unit. Sucks though as not easy to get everything disconnected to pull engine.