After MUCH rebuilding of this old girl, we finally hooked the backhoe back onto the tractor.... All the Hoses were replaced 19 in all....$$$ !! Not knowing at all if it would even work, I filled the reservoir and begain to work the cylinders one at a time... And slowly she came to life ....one cylinder after the other started working/holding flawlessly....! (Approx working each cylinder 5 times each) So i shut her down, refilled the hydraulic fluid, called my father to come watch the fruits of our labors......and then, without reason, the bucket would not un-curl *** !!! Everything else still flawlessly....s.o.b. After screaming at the birds in the trees, we switched the hoses to rule out the cylinder failure, and sure enough it un-curled but then wouldn't curl. And there we are, wondering WTHell, we were so close after 4 months of stem to stern.... What could it be ? PS. New hydraulic filter too.... Also took valve body out and cleaned and inspected....old but still very fuctional, no leaks anywhere either. It did work great 5 times.....
After a few "beverages"....my thoughts are that it is immediately by-passing that valve position request.... If it was debris, wouldn't it just poorly/slowly fuction? Is it possible to Be a by-ass situation with it still being able to operate one way but not the other (shouldn't it not work either way) if it was a by-pass situation? Is there by-pass valves for each lever direction?..... I have all the books, but too edgemacated in hydraulics.......
NOT too edgamacated........sorry
Welcome to the magical place where everybody is equal. Lets call it the Non Functional Hydraulic Owners Club. Begin with a prayer of thanks to whatever God you worship, you don't own a John Deere. Your tractor has linear hydraulics. Oil flows from reservoir to pump by force of vacuum. From the pump, it flows through every valve on the tractor, then back to the filter & reservoir. Everything else works, you got round trip flow. Uncurl involves oil flowing from butt end of bucket cylinder to filter. You can check to see if that is happening by opening the hose, run it into a clean bucket. Reassemble, and check downstream of the valve. Check that the filter accepts the unneeded oil. Put it all back together. Do something similar with the hose at rod end of cylinder. Run oil into a clean bucket. Somewhere oil is failing to flow. An infrared thermometer will give you a lot of info about where warm oil is flowing, better still, an infrared camera.
Heyyyyy!....Im finally part of a Club...! NFHOC ! now for my confused part.... "Uncurl involves oil flowing from butt end of bucket cylinder to filter. " .....um......... HUH? i really am stumped at most of your statement... Complete Dunce here.... What filter, the reservoir filter... I'm confused. Believe me, its me- not you...... (Reminds me of my dating in high school )
That is my guess...that oil is not flowing to the Rod End of the cylinder...i feel nothing when grabbing the hose, as i do when i feel the butt-end hose.....you can feel the vibration of fluid doing its thing..... I thought about loosening the fittings, and letting it leak/spray to prove the no dlow theory. IF it is a No-Flow situation to that one hose(rod end)....then what?
Be very careful if you loosen hoses. There can be enough pressure to penetrate skin. Like was said you could take the hose off the cylinder and put it in a bucket. Then try the valve and see if fluid comes out. If it doesn't the problem is likely in the valve. Another possibility is a hose or valve cap was left on and is blocking flow.
Butt end, (where it attaches to the dipper) has to dispose of oil to uncurl. It passes under low pressure through grooves in the control valve, back into the downstream hose in the valve. The force pushing it there is the higher pressure oil coming from the pump, through the spool groove, to the rod end. One or both is non functional.
I see the bucket idea..... definitely don't want injury.....lol....muchhhh care was takin with the hose installs...no caps blocking flow. Good oversight tho. Perhaps a picture will help make more-better sense of the confusion between me and you om the "butt end" etc......except its dark here now...Florida. Tomorrow i would Gladly attach photos to help.... For now, i will remain ignorant (my go to, lol)
To uncurl: Oil flows from the pump, through the valve section, to the rod end of the cylinder. This pushes the piston upward. The piston moving up forces oil from the butt end of the cylinder. this oil pushes out through the valve, and downstream toward the filter. If other functions in the valve bank function OK, you have high pressure oil to the valve, and return flow to the tank. Your problem lies in flow through the bucket valve section, hoses, or cylinder. What brought on this problem? Has anything been apart? Two sons & I each worked on a four wheeler once. Gas was leaking out of the carburetor, but it ran fine. Put back together, it wouldn't run. I sent it to a repair shop. They said extremely low compression. Not worth the cost of repair. I brought it home, tore it down to find a blue towel in the intake valve. Youngest son wanted to keep dust out, stuffed the towel in to protect it. Something simple is blocking yours.
First,.....I feel quite honored for the illustration ! Second,.... "What brought on this problem, has anything been apart"....... The entire valve assembly was removed from the backhoe. Placed on a bench, inspected for leakage around seals/orings/wipers....cleaned up from years of dirt etc, manually worked each spring loaded valve (no hang-ups, all nice and smooth)...so we left them alone... Other than that, just opened up what we felt safe doing to look for cracked o rings and such, then we just put back up, bolted it down and reassembled levers etc, then all new hoses , ......this valve body has induvidual 'check valves' per each valve section.... I'm wondering if it is stuck open on the one particular valve/spool.... But if it was stuck open wouldn't it then Not work in either direction? I will send picture from my manual to maybe help......
I have purchased new hoses that were crimped incorrectly and blocking flow completely. Disconnect the hoses and run them into a bucket to test for flow.
I blew through each hose to clear any dust/debris before install, so no restrictions/bad crimping there.... I am going to run the hoses into bucket in about an hour... And report back. But as I added to my original opening statement, all the cylinders worked/held flawlessly for the 5+ times I ran them through their paces.....then for no reason this one action stopped working. So if it worked once(minutes before)and then quit for no reason.....then? .... and lets say, no fluid flow is going to the 'rod end' of cylinder, not even a little, what would be the next step, besides 4-SALE lol
A broken O-ring or something in the control valve blocking flow?
Does the control lever have full travel both ways ? Is the linkage tight ?
Hey Tinkerer...... You helped last time, nice to see your still at it.... Yes, all of the linkage was cleaned, checked for wear and full movement. Sorry I should have explained that yesterday. I truly believe its a fluid flow issue.... I know i said I'd check in an hour, but it will be soon.....
I don't believe those top & bottom plug shaped valves are check valves. They are "Port Relief Valves" When you have lifted all the weight you can close to the swing tower at regulated system pressure, then extend away from the swing tower, it increases hose pressure sharply above system pressure. These relief valves send some of the oil downstream toward the filter. If the curl hose port relief valve is stuck open, it won't uncurl. My John Deere is a system far more complex than Ford. It has dozens of components Ford didn't feel the need to use. It does have port relief valves as yours does. Mine wouldn't lift the boom, same symptom, different function.
My Apologies to One and All for taking so long to answer back.... But i have one thing to say.....WOOHOO !!!! She is Back !! Now then, We disconnected both hoses to the bucket cylinder, and ran the lever to-and -fro, first noticing Without moving anything, the rod end hose would just continuously pump oil out at a slow rate.... We didn't touch anything, and it was already flowing ! So we then worked the lever/valve in that direction, and it increased slightly in flow. Then we ran the lever/valve in the butt end hose direction, and it jumped out at great volume/pressure. Which then made us go hmmmmmmm.... So we looked at the manual again, and said you know what lets look into this "Circuit Relief Valve" that is in line with that particular Circuit. (PICTURE COMING).... And sure Enough , there was debris, O-ring shavings, all inside the Relief Valve....after changing the O-rings and cleaning the valve assembly...She Ran like DREAM... ! Who would think such Small particles would render a 2600# backhoe useless..... Thank You all for advice and directions to take.... If I can answer any questions, Please ask....!
Another one saved courtesy of HEF! Glad it was a fairly simple fix. Still frustrating though.
Dear lord! the hoe might weigh 2600 LB. depending where the knuckle you separated it. Load weight on the trailer: near 13000. These hogs were not light. #1 son & one of my extra sons made four trips from Wilton CT to VT to bring two of these dinosaurs North. Once in VT 400 man hours, $10,000 were contributed to build two tractors. One was sold for $7000. So i don't know what the functional tractor cost, but I'm proud of him! He did what I didn't think he knew how to do.
LMAO.....I love the Dinosaur reference......Perfect description!...... It seems like Ford made them foolproof... Or so I'm learning.......either way, i am thankful of all inputs, to narrow down the culprit.......Thanks to All