I have a 2006 John Deere 672D motor grader with a 6068 engine with 7400 hours. This is a new machine for me. It has lived its life in Florida before coming to Utah at 7000 ft in elevation. 2/3 of the fuel tank is florida fuel and 1/3 is utah fuel with JD anti jell. The fuel system is working properly in that there is no air in the system. I am having a terrible time getting this machine started when the temperature is below 40 degrees fahrenheit with the evening temps in the 20s so the machine is fairly cold. I replaced the 650cca batteries with 1250 cca ones and this help a little in the cranking but I can't get this machine to start. I had an engine block heater installed before it left Florida but the machine is in an off-grid location and it is a real problem to heat the block for extended time periods. I have tried bypassing the glow plug circuit to heat the glo plugs as the engine computer won't engage them until 32 degress and this doesn't really seem to help. Can someone chime in that has some experience with the JD computerized machines. I don't think the valves have been adjusted and it was suggested that if they are not adjusted properly that this may be come of the problem in that the valves are not sitting on the seat long enough under the compression stroke to heat the gas to fire the engine. Any advice or help? Can the parameters in the JD computer be changed to help in start up timing? :Banghead
Are you sure the glow plugs are working?
1st thing I would check would be the grid heater and see if it is actually working, as willie says. Even at 20 degrees the grid heater will only be on a few seconds before the light cycles out. It may be time to look at the injectors, you may have some clogged/damaged tips creating poor atomization(sp?). Does the machine smoke alot during warm up?
I'm with Willie on this one..Glow plugs work off engine temp[coolant usually] they will come on when the engine hasnt been started in an hour reguardles of outside temp. Now dont get me wrong, outside temp DOES play a factor in reguardes to air density, fuel flow,and oil properties..cold temp means thicker oil which inturn will slow down cranking speed, ect..
I bypassed the automatic glo plug circuit and put a manual switch in to operate from 5 to 10 seconds and it would not start. I put the block heater on at 8 am and left it on til 4 pm and could not get a lick out of the engine. It cranks well but won't start. I can't tell you right now if the glow plugs are actually working. I am going to wait for a warmer day to see if I can get it started and get it moved into the work shed to get the valves adjusted and check the glow plugs. This is really frustrating. Lucky for me that I have a 570B around as it started today without the block heater and I cleared the 3 mile road of snow today. Makes me really appreciate the little 570B I can tell you. I changed oil yesterday with 10 w 30 as opposed to the 15 w 40 JD recommends. I drove the grader last night on the 3 mile road and it ran great. Low temps and it just won't start. Gosh, I am really frustrated.
My money says the problem is a little deeper. If the machine was plugged in ( and working, as it is new), it should have popped off right away with the starter. Let me check my manuals when I get to work tomorrow and see if I can come up with some more things to check. Good luck, nothing worse than having a nice machine sitting there that you cannot use when you need it. Could you post the Serial Number so we can dig into this some more.
Just a thought that maybe someone could help me with. What rating of fuel do they use in Florida. Around here it is NO. 2 during the summer and No. 1 during the winter. Could the Florida fuel be a higher rating( say No 5 or better)? Might be too 'thick' for the colder climate and higher altitude?
Good question big.. EVERY pump I've had the pleasure of rebuilding from Utah has been filled with BIO FUEL and "jelled" so bad it wouldnt run.. Doesnt account for the 570 running tho. Just depends on what fuel systems are on both machines..an "in-line" pump is way more forgiving than a "rotary" when it comes to bio.
Here is the serial number for the machine DW672DX602149 and the engine PE6068H518712 Could you post the Serial Number so we can dig into this some more.
I think my fuel is not gelling. I have a sight bowl on the primary pre-fuel pump filter and it is clear and the engine will begin to puff smoke if you crank it long enough and spill fuel out the exhaust elbow below the muffler if you crank several times over the day. This is what happened the day before yesterday when I just wouldn't give up. Yesterday it was so cold I restricted my start cycles to one two start cycles for about a minute every two hours beginning at 11 am after 3 hours of block heating. By the end of the day the engine really was warm all over.
AFAIK there are only 2 types of diesel - #1 (winter) and #2. Florida would definitely run #2 diesel all year round.
I really appreciate all the help you guys. One think is perfectly clear with my starting problem. It is temperature related and seems that 40 degrees is the breakline. Above 40 it starts great. Below 40 it won't start without the block heater and yesterday with the temps 30 and below I couldn't get it to start at all. Just a reminder, I am at 7000 feet elevation.
I've never worked with Deere machines so I'm batting a bit in the dark here, but what I do have is loads of experience of working in the Andes at altitudes up to 15,000ft ASL and ambient temperatures down to "you don't wanna know" below zero. If this engine is electronic could it be the set-up/configuration of the electronics and/or the altitude compensation (does it have atmospheric pressure sensor and ambient temperature sensors on it?) that is causing it not to want to come out and play when the ambient temperature falls below 40..? IMO you need to be talking to someone from the local Deere dealership and asking some pointed questions about how to set up the machine to work in your climate and at your altitude ASL.
I have a question?? Is the issue with #2 diesel gelling only or is it also an issue of ignition timing kinda like octane in gasoline, such that, #2 won't ignite in cold weather even if it doesn't gel?
I stopped by the local JD dealership (4 hours away) on Friday before this recent cold spell and they are going to come out and adjust the valves (that have never been adjusted) and I of course want to get into the computer to see what can be changed. I don't know if it has an altitude compensation sensor or not, but surely Deere would have some parameters for changing the computer set up in high altitude situations and I was hoping to get into that with the tech who is coming out to the machine. I have e-mails into the service manager and tech and am waiting to hear back from them. Do you have any suggestions on timing and such for 7000 feet? Thanks.
the 2 factors you have to get straight are what's called the Cloud Point and the Pour Point of the fuel in question. Here's some information I've lifted straight from Cat's on-line system. If you have a significant proportion of #2 fuel in your tank you may be suffering from "fuel waxing" - see below. Cloud Point It is important to understand that the cloud point of a fuel is different from the pour point. There is no relationship between cloud point and the pour point. The cloud point is the temperature that allows some of the heavier components in the wax to solidify in the fuel. This wax is not a contaminant in the fuel. The wax is an important element of No. 2 diesel fuel. The wax has a high fuel energy content and a very high cetane value. Removal of the heavier wax lowers the cloud point of the fuel. Removal of the wax also increases the cost because less fuel can be made from the same amount of crude oil. Basically, a No. 1 diesel fuel is formulated by removing the wax from a No. 2 diesel fuel. The cloud point of the fuel is important because the cloud point can limit the performance of the fuel filter. The wax can alter the fuel characteristics in cold weather. Solid wax can fill the fuel filters. The solidified wax will stop the flow of fuel. Fuel filters are necessary in order to remove dirt from the fuel, block foreign material, and protect the parts for the fuel injection system. Since fuel must flow through the filters, installing a fuel heater is the most practical way to prevent the problem. A fuel heater will keep the fuel above the cloud point as the fuel flows through the fuel system. The fuel heater will permit the wax to flow through the filters with the fuel. Pour Point The fuel's pour point is a temperature below the fuel's cloud point. Fuel stops flowing below the pour point. The pour point is the temperature which limits movement of the fuel inside of the pumps. To measure the pour point, the fuel temperature is lowered below the cloud point in steps of 3°C (5°F) at a time. The temperature is lowered until the fuel does not flow. The pour point is the last temperature that is shown before the flow stops. At the pour point, the wax has solidified out of the fuel. This makes the fuel more solid than liquid. The pour point of the fuel can be improved. This does not require the removal of important elements. This process is the same process that is used to improve the cloud point of a fuel. A fuel's pour point should be at least 6°C (10°F) below the lowest ambient temperature that is required for engine start-up and for engine operation. To operate the engine in extremely cold weather, No. 1 fuel or No. 1-D fuel may be necessary because of these fuels' lower pour points.
Sounds like it would be a good idea to pump out the fuel and put in #1 diesel to get that issue off the table. I think I can get the local excavator company to help me with that. I'll go see them today and call the JD dealer and get them going on the valves and engine computer issues. What else?
UPDATE !!!!! Okay, here's the update. I pumped out the fuel tank, replaced both fuel filters and replaced the diesel with our local winter blend (60% #2 and 40% #1). WHAT A DIFFERENCE! First it starts like a gas engine. Second, my road has a 800 ft change in elevation with a really steep section. Before with the Florida fuel I had to downshift to 3rd and it was all the machine could do to get up that steep section in 3rd. Tonight, I drove the road and had the machine in 4th in cruise control at 1775 rpm and it made it up the section with no loss of rpm. It must have made a 50 hp difference in addition that the machine will start. All of this for BAD fuel for this area. I should have had the folks in Florida drain it before we shipped it from Florida to Utah. Live and learn is all I can say. Thanks to everyone for your input and help.
Glad everything is starting to work out. One other thing that you may want to check. You may have a case of bacterial growth in the fuel prior to you getting the machine. Was there a bunch of black gunky stuff in the filters when you removed them? Carry a spare set of filters with you just in case. Depending on how well or how much of the old fuel you got out, if there was some diesel left in the tank ( providing it WAS contaminated) it probably will contaminate the new fuel. This may all be speculation, but if you still have problems in the future you may want to have the fuel tested in the tank for bacterial growth. Your fuel supplier should be able to help you out. Keep that deere hummin!!
Thanks for the tip biggrader. I had a boat in the 80's that got that bacterial growth and put a slime on all the filters not to mention ruined a nice weekend on the Lake. On the Grader, we pumped out the tank and we had the line from the tank that goes to the primary fuel filter off so we drained all we could into the transfer tank then put new fuel in and then drained some more to flush out the gallon that was left in the tank. This is red dyed diesel, and the primary fuel filter on this machine has a glass sight bowl with the electronic water sensor that you can look in. So, it just looked "red" and I can't confirm or deny if there may have been bacterial growth but I think I'll get some of that treatment anyway and add it to the fuel since the machine spent it's first 6 years in Florida. Good idea. It's a totally different machine now. What about the old fuel. I have it in tanks and thought about mixing it in next summer, but now I don't know if I even want to use it. What do you think??
I've been lucky and never had any bacterial problems in our fuel but have heard that it can be expensive to test and treat in large storage tanks, maybe some others can give us costs. I'm not talking in the thousands. but if you look at 100 gallons @ 3.50 / gallon= $350 so what does the cost figure out per gallon to treat it. The problem is time is the enemy for bacterial growth, the longer it sits the worse it gets and IF you have a problem now it will only get worse by summer. Get some cost estimates for treatment and testing ( and let everyone on HEF know), it may be cheaper to put the cans of fuel at the end of the driveway and hope someone takes it. and then it might cost effective, I just dont know.
Sell the old fuel to someone who uses a waste oil heater. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's a great idea and we have folks using waste fuel to heat their homes here in the county.
I got a few thousand gallons of old fuel from a man who demolished some oil co distribution tank farms. I ran it through a homemade fuel polisher, (primary and secondary fuel filters from a tugboat, and an electric transfer pump), added Startron fuel additive, and ran it back through the polisher again with fresh filters. I have been running it in mid '90s and older equipment with no problem.
That 6068 engine uses an altitude compensating turbo charger that requires no derating under 10,000 feet. Ask the Deere tech to check trouble codes... could be a sensor issue. Good luck.
Thanks for that. No codes, BUT - a tip... I float the bladed and scarifier down when I shut the engine down. I was leaving the levers in the float position as I do on a little 570B machine I use as well. Turns out, if you leave the levers in the float position when you are starting the engine, it allows the hydraulic pump to pump during start up and slows the starting speed down. Long story short, if you move the levers off float to their regular position, it takes a lot of pressure off the hydraulic pump and REALLY aids in start up. Also, the JD tech adjust the valves although they were very close to factory tolerances and didn't affect my starting issue. It's been very cold here recently and the grader now starts right up with no problem.