I just made a deal on a D4D With power shift and angle blade. I think I will enjoy this machine if repairs don't kill me. The biggest issue is when you grab the left turn handle and step on the brake it stops pulling. First powershift dozer I've been on and didn't have much time to mess with it. Anyone want to jump in there with some info?
When you grab the left hand steering lever does the whole machine stop?
Fortunately problem is probably not related to transmission. Likely slop in cross shaft bearings (not good). You may be able to compensate with more free travel in steering clutch adjustments.
When I pull the left steer nothing happens but when I step on the brake it quits pulling.
Sounds like that steering clutch is not releasing. With out steering clutch disengaging, either brake pedal will stop machine.
The LH steering clutch is not releasing (not disengaging), and the likely cause is a blown piston ring seal in the clutch release mechanism, which is adjacent to the steering clutch itself. You need to remove the fuel tank, seat assembly, steering clutch covers, and then unbolt and remove the steering clutch to access the clutch actuation piston. TomA is correct, often the blown clutch piston seal is caused by bad bevel gear bearings on the cross-shaft. You've got some work in front of you. Oh, and those track shoes are in serious need of a grouser rebuild. You won't be able to push a full blade without a lot of trackspin while they're like that. And badly worn grousers lead to bent track shoes.
What's the S/N? 76 models 82,83,84J are manual steering clutches. no seals to blow.
O.M., aren't the powershift D4D's a 47H serial # prefix? The powershift D4D's still used the mechanical yoke and bearing setup for steering clutch release? O.K., my error, I thought they went over to full hydraulic steering clutch operation when they brought out the powershift models. In that case, likely a failed throwout bearing. This still means steering clutch removal.
What all needs to be removed to remove the steering clutch? I know the dozer needs work but I like it and got a fair buy on it.
You have to remove the fuel tank, seat assembly and all the supports under the seat frame assembly, brake linkages, and lift off steering clutch compartment cover. Disconnect steering clutch yoke linkage. The clutches are held in by a row of bolts around each side of the clutch assembly. You need to chain up the blade before you start and allow room to move the tractor backwards or forwards a foot or two, so you can access all the clutch retaining bolts. You move the tractor a little at a time, using a bottle jack against a grouser, to turn the clutches so you can access the retaining bolts. You can usually lift steering clutches out utilising the brake band. Connect a lifting cable or chain to the band. Make sure the band is centred on the clutch, and the chain/cable is acting to tighten the brake band as you lift. The D4 has the brake bands secured to the bottom of the steering clutch main housing, these bolts must be undone from the underside. You may have to remove the canopy or part of it to allow the clutch to come out. Do the bearings in both clutches while you're in there. If there are 2 similar components in a Cat (one each side), they will both generally be in the same condition, so it pays to do both at once. Check the bevel gear/cross-shaft bearings as well, they need to be in good shape. If the bearing races show serious wear, it pays to replace them. The powershift D4D is a nice little tractor, it was designed as a construction machine. Good to hear you got a good buy, now comes the exciting part - pouring a whole heap more money into it, so it provides reliable service!
On your tractor the cross shaft, bevel gear, steering clutches, brakes and bearings all come out in one piece about 500 pounds. there is quite a bit of tools and fitting on this job and a bunch of expensive parts. You may want to consider hiring help as in someone who has done this job before Good luck Bad Bob.
Here's a guy on YooToob who shows a D4D steering clutch and brake removal job, pretty much explaining all the fine details very well. He's got one crowded shop! Bluox is right, doing the job on your own with no experience would not be recommended, you would also be well-advised to acquire the correct Cat D4D service manual, or at least the inserts which show disassembly and assembly, and the insert which gives all the crucial specifications for clearances, etc. A good high-pressure washdown makes working on these areas a whole lot easier. I wouldn't disassemble a tractor with this much dirt still on it, but everyone works differently. Be careful wailing on cast iron housings with big hammers, this mechanic is making me cringe with his hammering on that steering clutch housing cover. Big crowfoot prybars of high quality, are your best investment on this job. I'm of the opinion that slackening the fender bolts more at the rear, would have assisted in his removal of the steering clutch housing cover. And most Cat housings have threaded holes in the flanges or lips where you can screw in bolts to separate housings, rather than attacking the housing with a chisel to separate it.
Yeah I'm all on my own on this. But I've never failed at a job yet so I'll just jump into it. Any info is appreciated!!!
A tractor front end loader or a workshop hand operated hoist if you haven't got an overhead gantry crane . Whats happened to yours is just the same as my D47U , bearings were all right to use again on mine , just lost their tightness and the crown wheel moves over when using the steering but can't go too far when using the other side steering clutch , which still worked , as the crown wheel comes against the pinion . If this is the issue the crown wheel should be on the right of the pinion when viewed from the rear of the dozer otherwise could be another fault . Hopefully its only just happened as it would damage the crown wheel and pinion if its been used a lot with the loose bearings fault .
All I can offer is that if it is a 1976 model, it will have a wet backend as in the steering clutches and brakes are immersed in oil. All the earlier ones were dry.
Still don't have a s/n!! but boosted steering clutches and wet back ends didn't come in until the D4E
Old Magnet is right, need that serial # on the tag on the upright face of the rear of the steering clutch housing, so we know exactly the right setup we're dealing with. There's often a lot of engineering changes with Cats, even in the one tractor model.
I'm having it moved for me later this week. I'll have a lot more info when it gets here.
Your serial # will be on a plate on the bottom of the dash or the left side of the bevel gear housing above the track sprocket, although this one will most likely be gone but the numbers should be stamped in the housing. In the real world unless they gave you about $15 K and the machine it won't be "a good buy". Bad Bob
Are you saying I bought a bad machine? Not understanding you last comment
Thats too early to tell . In the real world nobody is going to give you a dozer and 15 thousand to cover repairs . A point I should have made in my last post is you won't be able to get at all the bolt heads around the clutch's , I counted the number I could not get at and removed the same number next in line , THEN MOVED THE DOZER WITH THE PONY MOTOR , saves using a jack like one of the posters has said .
That D4D is direct electric start, so no pony to utilise there. I guess you could use the electric starter, but that's hard on electric starters, and outside their design limitations. A jack on the track works just fine - unless you do what the brother and I did, when we were young and still dumb (1965) - we positioned our (new) toolbox on the track, and had so much fun jacking the tractor along and unscrewing the steering clutch bolts, we forgot about the toolbox! When the toolbox reached the top carrier roller, it overbalanced and fell off the track! Didn't exactly improve the operation of the toolbox drawers, from that day on! Hard lesson learned!
This machine has a power shift transmission with a torque divider so good luck moving it with the starter. And you take the bolts out of the brake drum not the clutch. Bad Bob
Ooops, yes, we're talking about a powershift machine here, aren't we? Epirbalex threw me back to direct drive, when he started talking about a PONY MOTOR! What were we talking about again?? LOL Yes, bolts on the D4D hold the brake drum only. But the tractor I was working on in 1965 was an Allis-Chalmers, and they had bolts in both clutch assembly and the brake drum - and lots of them! All the power boosted oil steering clutches in Cats have bolts in both clutch assembly and in the brake drum. I hate dry clutches with a vengeance, oil clutches were a huge advance. No more smoking brake linings when the workload got heavy! Chaining down heavy timber was murder on clutches and brakes, always getting pulled off line, and having to try to straighten up again.
We are , I'd have a crack at using the main motor on this one , biggest problem would be setting up a small diesel tank .
A jack under the grousers to move the tractor is simple, straightforward, and doesn't require jerry-rigging fuel systems and running the main engine. The advantage of the jack under the track, is that due to final drive gearing, it only takes a small amount of track chain movement to spin the steering clutches a full revolution. This mechanic is only using a cheap trolley jack to move the tracks forward on an earlier model 7U D4.
He had no choice because his motors are out . And he has a concrete floor . Using a rattle gun would have needed the dozer moved more than the once . Brings back a few memories seeing the dozer opened up
D 4 D s could be converted to a wet back end as one we had new back in NZ in the early 70s came as a dry backend but they had the dealers change it a wet one, was a P/S machine.
Two or Three worth while tips for anyone lifting the Cross Shaft out of a D4C or D is to always note the position of the Bevel Gear in relation to the case so mark things, the adjuster collars on the cross shaft bearings need to be undone way off especially behind the bevel gear side to allow the un-meshing of the bevel gear and pinion or you will damage the heel of the pinion as a common thing, use the clutch release yolks to lift out the cross shaft via the top of them and do it slow and steady helping the ring gear to pass the pinion, you will then need a bit of flat steel bar drilled to bolt to the brake drum with 2 bolts to undo the nut that holds the clutches to the cross shaft, I have a fancy 1" drive socket for this job that is reduced on the outside diameter, the nut is locked also, then you will need the CAT Service press kit to press them off. good luck tcractors
Biggest problem to overcome is the thought that those saying it can't be or shouldn't be done are correct .
Well I'm in no way excited about this project!! But I'll get it done. What is a fair price for a D4E winch with driveshaft and controls? Is anyone running an enclosed cab and rollover protection over it? I would like to see pictures if you are or have seen a picture.
Un4gvn. To put a winch on a powershift D4D it has GOT TO have factory installed PTO arrangement. There is NO pto shaft on standard D4D powershift transmission. There was 2 types of PTO. 1st type had a disconnect dog clutch with a lever by your left heel to disengage bevel gear and then engage winch. You have GOT TO have this setup to run a Hyster D4E winch, because its a sliding gear winch. Also the winch drive shaft is longer for the powershift usage, than if the winch came off a direct drive D4D which is a shorter shaft. Later D4D have "Live PTO" ie constant running non interuptable; and you have to have a powershift winch on these like 1 Hyster W5B 2 Hyster W5A 3 Cat model 54 those winchs are listed in order of whats the best one to run and own. RE the wet backend D4D s, wet steering clutchs and brakes were a factory option on later japanese built 47H and 65J models.
Yeah, the D4D we had at Renners had the Dog Clutch set up so when using the winch U used the P/S trans which gave U 3 fwd and 3rev on the drum, also had a hyd tit bull blade and towed a Cat 40 scoop behind it as well.
Well that's not good news. I know where another D4D is that's been sitting along time that was a skid tractor. Maybe it has what I need.
View attachment 274565 View attachment 274565 I finally cat the D4D power shift home and she definitely needs work but I love it already. They bent the track adjuster bad! How do you do that? And what is the tiny know under right heel?
And the blade is backwards! You pull back and it goes down. You push forward and it comes up. Now it's been awhile since I was on one but that not what I remember.
Is this the correct way to repair the hydraulic cylinders?
Will a winch fit with this cab? Or am I going to need to redo the lower part?
I show 83J3215 to be a 1974 model and looks like you lucked out and got the PTO option. ROPS mounting would have to be changed to mount a winch.
You can bend the track adjuster pushrod by ramming the front idler into a big rock or a big stump. That looks like a brake locking latch for parking, to me. One dopey fitter has installed the hydraulic hoses to the blade lift cylinders the wrong way around. They failed to note their position when they removed them. Simply disconnect the hoses at the lift cylinder and swap them around. Even a Cat dealer did that to me once. Yes - but it's a pretty rough repair. It's a common procedure to cut the end off lift cylinder shafts and attach a new piece of chromed shaft with weld. You'd have to hope they did a good job with the welding, and got good deep penetration through the whole thickness of the shaft. Good workmanship would see the welding finished off with neat machining.
That recoil spring can kill you if it gets loose. Looks like a bomb just waiting to go off. Is the bolt broken. Is there an inner recoil spring that's broken or missing. If the bolt is intact, best to cut the spring with a torch using the top track to shield your body until the energy is gone, then cut it up and remove it in pieces.
They don't call those things Death Springs for no reason.
Is a new spring available?
If you're planning on doing all your own repairs IMO the first thing you need to be on the lookout for is a Parts Manual. There are three Serial Number ranges for 83J - 1 to 2176, 2177 to 3421, and 3422-Up. Yours falls into the second group and unfortunately that's the one that I can't find a Publication Reference for. Maybe OM can help.?
Form UEG0682S https://www.ebay.com/itm/1927828383...p9yPqwyJRgURoDKGQ5X8/+TAs=|tkp:Bk9SR6iR9N-fYQ
I'd look for a Service Manual as well. Cheap info to keep you out of trouble. There were new aftermarket springs available before the crud. Once you have a part number, you can start looking. Used is a good way to go as well, and perhaps more plentiful. The issue is the track adjuster bolt that runs through the center of the spring. A used and stressed bolt won't last and I don't know if there's new aftermarket available.
That explains why. The manual exists but no Serial Number range on it..........
Going back to PTO's.... Got much needed rain all day along with power outage so I'm running behind. First picture is the control you would have for the interruptible PTO and #54 winch which is not present on this tractor. Next is the workings of the constant running non-interruptible PTO There are no controls and I'll be damned if I can figure out where that shaft with the red arrow goes....comments please!!!
Yes I'm going to do all repairs myself. I rarely ever hire someone to repair anything for me. The spring tensioner assembly is available new but is a little pricey. I know where a couple old broken D4D are that I'm hoping to pickup for parts. I always try to have a parts unit for everything I own. I have not found the correct winch yet. About 20 years ago my father and I got a bunch of stuff from a cat graveyard in southeast Oklahoma, does anyone remember this place or know if it still exists??
In that case you're gonna need manuals............
Seems the only way your going to determine if you have winch capability on that unit is to pull the back cover and check for a PTO shaft.
Ok I'll pull cover later. Guys I'm not an amateur! I've been turning wrenches my whole life. I
The recoil spring looks to be in good order with the odd shape it sits in being caused by impacted mud forced up from between the bottom rollers, if you look at the back stop welded to the track frame it has bent backwards, this puts the Hog's Back into the spring and can easily be rectified with fabrication skills that most Farm type chaps have, as for danger working around the spring well they have killed and injured plenty of people that failed to work in a safe way, I often fit new recoils and have the correct CAT tooling for this type of repair without any trouble, so if you stand in line with it and get hit don't be shocked to get a wound, the nut on the far end of the recoil rod is made weak by heating it so try to avoid that. tctractors.
There would be a lot of people get a shock the day they open up that plate to fit a winch finding no PTO having purchased a winch first . There is an option to fit a hydraulic winch off a log skidder . Matching flow and pressure for your dozer to a winch the biggest problem .
Anyone out there have a parts dozer they would sell? Where could I put a want ad? Is there no classifieds here?
The Equipment for Sale/Wanted section almost at the bottom of the main page.?
I remember my dad building a monster of a spring compressor to disassemble the track adjusters on our D4D - 4 sets of 1-inch ready rod with a square of 1-inch steel plate on each end, with a hole bored out on one end to let the rod out. Once the spring was released he patiently loosened each nut until it was free. Definitely a rather tense couple of hours to relax all that energy.
Here's a few links to threads about removing and reassembling recoil spring assemblies. At least one is on a D4D HeavyEquipmentForums HeavyEquipmentForums HeavyEquipmentForums
DRAIN oil from bevel gear case BEFORE you pull that rear PTO cover off. . . .Otherwise you will need a bath. . .! You will soon see if there is a PTO shaft in there. OM that shaft you point to is a skinny wee drive shaft than runs down the inside of the transmission case. Its driven off the pump drive gear in the torque converter. It is direct drive PTO; ie power does not come through the torque converter. And yes I have had these trans apart a number of times when i worked for NZ cat dealer. In aabusive situations this shaft can break. This shaft is also reason why you CANNOT just pull torque converter off the transmission in place This is why you have to have a powershift winch. Because the PTO drive is effectivly direct drive you have to be abit more selective what you winching. One I used to drive had a Hyster W5B winch, which is best winch for D4E IMO. Reason being by swapping 2 gears around you can have either 25-1 gearing or 40-1 winch gearing. Makes a big difference to pulling power. W5A winch is just 25-1 can,t alter it. Cat 54 winch gearing is similar speed and power. But only has power in, brake on and brake off functions, no power out function. I think UN4givn said he had a Hyster D4E winch he wanted to put on it. He CAN,T with this PTO setup. This is because D4E winch is a sliding gear winch, which is impossible to put into gear with constant running PTO.
Thanks Merv, I kind of suspected it was driven from the gear drive on the front of the converter but could not find parts detail to support my suspicions. Does seem kind of delicate for the application. Seems there are three different PTO possibilities. Parts book shows an arrangement similar to the 54 drive but states for other than the 54 winch application.
Anyone with input on the strength of the power shift trans? I've been looking at some of the different 3304 engines with turbo. I'd really like a turbo don't really need I don't think but it would sound good! I know nothing about the powershift trans and what it is capable of.
Copperheadmarine on youtube did a 3304 turbo conversion on a direct drive D4D, I think his videos will have a few tuning tips that might be helpful.
I did see that video but I would think the direct drive would be stronger than the powershift.
The powershift is merely a multiple set of planetary gears with multi-plate clutches mounted around the outer circumference of the gear sets. Oil under about 300 psi pressure is directed into the appropriate clutch packs by the spool valve (which is operated by the transmission gear selection lever), which clamps the plates together and thereby selects that particular speed or directional planetary gear set. The Cat powershifts are pretty robust, and planetary gearsets spread the load, unlike simple spur gears in single-countershaft, direct drive transmissions. The primary weakness is likely to be in the transmission pinion, and the bevel/ring gear on the cross-shaft. The bevel/ring gear is unsupported adjacent to the pinion, unlike some bevel/ring gears in truck differentials - so the potential is there for the pinion and bevel/ring gear to spread apart under extreme load, and shift the tooth contact pattern, to the point where teeth may fracture. The steering clutches are more likely to give trouble with a sizeable power/torque increase, and the final drive is only a single reduction - a straight-cut pinion on a straight-cut bull gear - which is weaker than the double reduction final drives of the bigger Cats.
Some good info in that post. Someone had mentioned the strength of the final drives in another thread I started.
I should ask: does your powershift have a lever to disconnect the tracks for using a winch? Our 83J has such a transmission. The pinion has a needle bearing that allows a dog clutch to disconnect the tracks, and that is how the pinion and ring gear failed on our D4D - the needle bearing failed, and the reduced contact pattern wrecked the pinion and ring gear. Look for a short lever on the floor near the base of the shifter tower - that's the clutch for the pinion.
I don't think this one does but I'm going to buy another tomorrow that came with the winch on it so it may have what you describe. I think this dozer might give up parts to put the other together. The new one has a lot less use on it. It is setup as a pipelayer so it has probably had an easier life than mine.
Most Cat diesel engines can be set up for much higher horsepower without a turbo. Mother Cat only gives you the amount the machine can handle and endure. Yes the finals are likely the determining factor.
The dozer I'm getting does have the lever for the winch. It is in better condition than mine with a lot less hours on it. But it's been sitting so long so stuff is not operating as it should. Neither of the steer levers will move not sure what it will take to get that stuff free.
If just the levers themselves are binding at their pivot points, that's no biggie. But dry steering clutches that get water in them are a PIA to clean up and get working again. Nothing else to do there, but some major dismantling.
I believe it is just the shaft where it enters the housing. I don't think it will require major surgery. I hope...
Is there a way to delete threads on here?? I don't want any of my stuff on this forum.
powershift D4D transmissions are fairly bulletproof. Only weakness is the seals on the rotating clutch for 1st gear. Bevel gears and pinion will only fail if a bearing fails first. The dry steering clutchs are a pain. Most of the later D4D that came down under to new zealand were japanese build which came with factory wet steering clutchs and brakes. The few 83J ones from USA were changed to wet by dealer here. Weakest part on D4D is single reduction final drive gears. Though the later 7K gears are fairly good. Beefiest f/d gear upgrade came in on the D4E. They have big coarser pitch gears.
Maybe if you throw a hissey fit, mean mouth the other posters and the like the mods may wipe it, otherwise afaik there is a very tight window of opportunity to edit/remove posts after posting, if you miss that you pretty much have to live with what you post.