My problem is very similar to the 2015 post by Ryan H. Battery is new, and fully charged. Digital ignition. Turn on glow plugs. Hit green start. Clicking noise in the back. Error code read 22-03 (erroneous starter shutdown) ??????? Replaced starter/solenoid. Same results. Different code none I have not checked relays or fuses because I don't know where they are. ALSO .... a couple of months ago I had a 'Bobcat technician' come to my house to replace the radiator and o'rings in the fuel lines. He had the valve cover off and a wire bolted to the top of the water pump ..... why ???? The bobcat was starting ok before he came out. When he put it back together it wouldn't start. Just click. He said it was the starter. I had a new starter in a box he exchanged. Still wouldn't start. Just click. He kept switching wires around. and using a jump starter. Then he said, "I think I owe you a new starter." Put the old starter back in. He kept this up for seven hours (7) over two days. It finally started. I asked him what he did differently, and he said "I don't know." The dealer was going to charge me for all seven hours. After two days of harassment over the phone and me refusing to pay he finally gave in. When 'I' took the starter out this time, he had not replaced the third bolt at the back of the starter. The wire at the top of the water pump from the harness is still loose. There was a wire at the bottom of the starter that had electrical tape around it and tucked behind the starter. Am I correct in that the small wire hooks to the 'S' pole? Another heavier wire connects to the other pole. The taped wire, the same diameter as the heavier wire, goes where? What is the function of the loose wire from the top of the water pump? What might the function of the third (3rd) wire at the starter be? Does anyone have images of where the relays and fuses are? Does anyone have images of the starter/solenoid and the wiring hookups? Googling for this information has only produced PDFs and manuals to be purchased. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Hey guys, I am COVID free. Some reason there are no responses?
No one has replied probably because they either don't have the info you need or have the info and haven't seen your post yet. Without the machine s/n I can't verify this info is correct, but wire 1010 goes to battery terminal of starter, it would be red, red/white, or red/green wire. Tan wire 8200 goes to S terminal of starter, tan wire 8250 goes to R terminal of starter. I have no clue what the wire at the water pump is, might be able to tell you if you give me a wire number and color. Fuses and relays are behind a removable cover between your legs if you're sitting in the seat. Aside from all this, after the Bobcat tech has worked on it with dubious success, not really a way I can troubleshoot if without a whole lot more information. After all, he's a qualified tech with all the factory/brand resources and had hands on with the machine, no way I can do that.
willie59. I surmise 'Read Forum Rules Here' were meant for me to see. I clicked on it and it said, 'Site being upgraded, check back later.' The serial number is 512250671. It is a 2000 model year. I will head out to the barn today and clean the wires to see the color, numbers, and routing. Thanks for responding. You're a gentleman and a scholar. I appreciate you.
I may be wrong but I don't think so. Willie is a moderator as well as a poster and has had that link on his signature line for as long as I can remember.
Correct you are Nige, that's in my signature line to encourage new members to familiarize themselves with the forum rules, not directed and any specific member.
OK. I cleaned off the wires. The starter has been sent to a shop that rebuilds starters just to verify it is ok. The numbers on the 'skinny' tan wire could not be made out, but it is the wire I had hooked up to the 's' pole. The numbers on the larger, also tan wire, were not legible either, but I had it on the 'r' pole. The large red wire hooked up to the positive. The wire that the bobcat tech left off the top of the water pump is a black wire number 2010. The wire he taped up and stuck behind the starter is also the black 2010 wire. 2000 763G SN 512250671
Well, black wires with numbers that range from 2000 to 2999 are ground (earth) wires. Umm, don't know what's up with the Bobcat tech, but ground wires are kind of important. Diagrams, such as the one I'm looking at, don't really show "a black wire at the water pump", I'm only saying the the schematics tell me those black wires with those numbers are ground wires, they need to be connected to frame or engine component to make a ground connection. As for the tan wires, the schematics don't tell wire gauge size, only color and number. If you peel back the protective jacket of the wires farther back you may find legible numbers to identify those wires.
Again, I can't say for sure as the schematics don't distinguish wire gauge size, but my gut instinct leads me to say the large wire would go to the S terminal as that's the terminal that engages the starter solenoid, which would require more amps. The smaller wire would go to the R terminal as that smaller wire would be a voltage signal wire back to the the main controller telling it the starter is engaged. But knowing wire numbers is the only way to confirm this.
So willie, the black 2010 wire that was 'originally' connected to a stud bolt at the top of the water pump (came that way from the factory) and the black 2010 wire that was taped up and tucked behind the starter, are one and the same? If so, and if the wire was re-connected to the stud at the water pump, would/should it be connected to the starter??? You can tell I'm illiterate about wiring, etc..
I will peel back the protective loom to see if it will reveal legible numbers. Saying you are correct about the tan wire connections, 'If' the large tan wire was hooked up to the 'r' position and the small tan wire was hooked up to the 's' position, would it still start and run OK?
I can't tell by the schematic if the two 2010 wires are one in the same, it's not drawn that way. I can only see a 2010 that grounds the alternator, and it may have two points of ground termination, one at the water pump and another at the starter, I just can't tell that by looking at the diagrams. As for the tan wires, I'm thinking if they were hooked up backwards the starter wouldn't work at all to crank the engine. But if the starter does crank the engine yet it won't start/run, that's a different problem altogether.
OK, I'm back. I finally got the starter/solenoid back from the shop and installed it. I checked all the fuses in the panel box and switched the front light relay with the starter relay, and the rear light relay with the switch power relay. I reconnected the black 2010 wire to the stud on the top of the water pump and I connected the loose black 2010 wire to the bottom stud on the starter. I pushed the yellow ignition switch button, and the green start button, and all it does is click without cranking over. I haven't yet looked at the 100 amp fuse because I have power to the ignition ...??? A couple of weeks ago the battery had tested OK. Tomorrow I will take it out and install a different battery and see if that makes any difference. I just ordered 4 new relays in case the old ones were/are weak. Does anyone know of anything else to check out? Thank you.
You're connecting the ground (black 2010) wire to a starter mounting bolt right? And not the bottom bolt on the starter solenoid?
ozarkag: Yes sir. The bottom bolt, one of three that holds the starter to the engine block. This morning I am going to remove the 100 amp fuse. How do I check it out to see if it is good or weak? Also as willie59 suggested, I cut the protective loom back to better look for numbers on the two (2) 'tan' wires connecting to the 'S' and 'R' posts on the solenoid. The LARGER of the two had a number so faint I couldn't identify it even with the use of the magnifier on my cell phone and I could not see any number on the SMALLER wire. In my 84 years old mind, I believe it was the SMALLER wire that had always been connected to the 'S' post but, if it was, it MAYBE COULD HAVE BEEN wrongly connected during two or three previous starter replacements in the past 23 years. willie59 'suggested' because of the need for more amperage to start, that the LARGER tan wire perhaps, should go to the 'S' post so that is how I now have it. I have looked at wiring schematics/diagrams online trying to determine the difference in the diameter of the two tan wires and which post they connect to since I can see no numbers without success. Really, really frustrating. s
Easy way to know would be to have someone attempt to start engine while you check for 12V at the 2 tan wires. Then connect the wire that powers on to S post. Then monitor voltage at main battery (top) post on start solenoid. For this test use the starter body for ground reference. We want to verify good battery power at the starter while cranking, (or trying to crank). Should not drop below about 10 volts. Also monitor voltage at tan wire connected to S terminal, again should have alt least 10 volts when attempting to crank. These 2 tests will show if its a battery power to starter issue, or if its in the ignition (start) circuit.
ozarkag: I will do that tomorrow. Today I cleaned the battery while I had it out, wire-brushed the posts, and rechecked the voltage. Checked out at 12.84. While I had the 100 amp fuse out I cleaned it all up with a wire wheel, and also all three ends on the positive battery cable. Not having any Vaseline I coated the battery terminals and wire ends with bag balm. Do I check the 100 amp fuse with the ohm meter? What should it read? 1.5 - 1.6 ?? Thank you.
The 100 Amp fuse powers all machine side electrical, so yours is not blown. Could definitely be the location of a corrosion or poor connection. The starter battery cable does not go through the 100 Amp fuse. And a clean fuse ohmed directly should basically be 0 ohms.
Hi ozarkag. I didn't get much done today. We had a severe thunderstorm with 55 - 70 mph winds that resulted in a power outage. So, no electricity, no lights, no work. The power was restored at approximately 7:30 tonight. When I removed the 100 amp fuse I cleaned off the end of the positive cable that connects to it. After 23 years of use the 100 amp fuse was not corroded, just a little tarnished. Will work on it tomorrow ..... with lights to see.
Okay. Got each and every ground and positive connection cleaned and sealed to prevent corrosion. Had my wife get in the cab and push the buttons to start while I checked the voltage. The voltage at the 'S' post was 12.82. It just clicked at the fuel solenoid. The battery voltage is good. I just purchased and installed three new relays. One at switch power, one at starter, and one at traction control. All fuses are good. A shop checked the starter/solenoid and said it was good. This was after I had bench-tested it myself and it engaged okay. I forgot to check the voltage at the positive cable on the solenoid. Will do that in the morning
Hi all. With the starter/solenoid checked out as operational. All ground and positive connections, posts, and terminals were wire brushed, cleaned with white vinegar, and re-attached, it would still just 'click' when hitting the green start button. I had even replaced all the relays with new ones and removed all the fuses in the panel to see if they were blown or corroded. A friend of mine stopped by while I was working on it and told me to get in the cab and push the green start button while he was at the back of the engine. Twice I did it with only the 'click'. He said don't push the red stop button yet..... then he said try it again. I tried to push the red stop button and now I have no power anywhere............ I asked him what he did and he said he tried using a screwdriver on the starter... Would that have blown the 100 amp mega fuse and or something else? I've been struggling with this machine for three weeks now and my wife is getting tired of me being cranky and grouchy in my old age. This thing has gotten on my last nerve.
Just saw this and didn't read all the posts. Is the starter a Nippon Denso? They are famous for not wanting to engage or intermittently engaging. Some people put a larger size wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid but the biggest issue is the copper contacts in the solenoid arcing and it causes the starter not to engage. I've had some fits with it on my skid steer. Pull the starter out and take the 3 screws out of the cover on the back of the solenoid. Be careful because there is a spring in there and some other parts. If it's the problem you will instantly see black marks on the large copper contacts and the round ring that slides down once the solenoid is activated. I think a low battery and/or bad ground contributes to the problem. Testing in a shop would have good short cables and 100% power. Could also be a case where it works perfect in the shop but acts up as soon as you install it. Mine acted up really bad shortly after having it completely rebuilt. Really pi$$ed me off after spending about $250 on it. You can clean up the copper ring(plunger) and the other contacts with sand paper (don't use emery cloth). The plunger comes out. Using just a little WD40 or similar to make the plunger move easier after cleaning everything will help and also help prevent corrosion. I think sometimes the plunger can get hung up. If the contacts are really bad have them replaced. My starter would sometimes click a dozen times or more before it finally engaged. I added an extra ground cable from the starter mounting bolt to the frame and it seems to be helping on my last contact cleaning. I think your starter is pretty easy to get at with the engine sideways. Hope this helps.
Just saw this and didn't read all the posts. Is the starter a Nippon Denso? They are famous for not wanting to engage or intermittently engaging. Some people put a larger size wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid but the biggest issue is the copper contacts in the solenoid arcing and it causes the starter not to engage. I've had some fits with it on my skid steer. Pull the starter out and take the 3 screws out of the back of the solenoid. Be careful because there is a spring in there and some other parts. If it's the problem you will instantly see black marks on the large copper contacts and the round ring that slides down once the solenoid is activated. I think a low battery and/or bad ground contributes to the problem. Testing in a shop would have good short cables and 100% power. Could also be a case where it works perfect in the shop but acts up as soon as you install it. You can clean up the copper ring and the other contacts with sand paper (don't use emery cloth). The plunger comes out. Using just a little WD40 or similar to make the plunger move easier after cleaning everything will help and also help prevent corrosion. It the contacts are really bad have them replaced. My starter would sometimes click a dozen times or more before it finally engaged. I added an extra ground cable from the starter mounting bolt to the frame and it seems to be helping on my last contact cleaning. I think your starter is pretty easy to get at with the engine sideways. Hope this helps. There are some video's online about fixing Nippon Denso starter solenoids.
Did you do this test? Test positive on main (battery) solenoid post on starter, and ground on starter body while someone tries to start it. Voltage should not drop below 10 volts or so. This will help tell if itsa a starter or battery/cable issue. Course now if you have nothing you can't try that. . . I have seen more than a few battery cables fail INSIDE the terminal, more often the ground terminal at the battery , with 2 cables molded in. Again, voltage drop testing is the best way to find this.
Ozarkag and Welder Dave. Thank you. Yes, the starter in the machine now is a Nippondenso. It is the original (2000) starter. Over the past 23 years I have taken it to a shop and had it rebuilt 3 different times. I bench tested it with a jump starter and it engages every time. Perhaps it needs 'operated' on as you stated or perhaps I need to again reinstall the other one I have. Just in case... I am heading in to NAPA to get a new 100 amp fuse too. I will test the positive post on the solenoid. I am now going to take pictures of both your responses for references so when I get out to the barn I can one by one eliminate the things you advised me to check out. A little too much for my gray matter to remember.
I had my starter rebuilt by the ND distributor with all new ND parts. I said I didn't need it for a week and a half but the shop called me 3 days later and said it was ready. They put a rush on it for some stupid reason and charged me for a rush job too. It was $285 or something close to that. I started having problems with it in less than 25 hours on the machine. I was going to take it back but thought it must be something simple. That's when I took the cover off and saw the problem. Just because your starter was rebuilt and checked out in a shop doesn't mean it's neccesssrily going to work properly when installed. Cables, grounds, connections, circuit breakers, etc. are all potential issues that could affect the starter. I changed battery cables, the 40 amp circuit breaker, igniton switch, welded a new ground stud higher up out of the belly pan and also added an extra ground cable from a starter mounting stud. I've cleaned the contacts a few times but since adding the extra ground cable the last cleaning I've had good luck with it. Sometimes it takes a second or 2 for the starter to engage when you turn the key but it does engage. Some John Deere owners added a relay that helped. I found that when looking up the problem on the internet.
Check your signal wire voltage at the starter when cranking the engine, not just a test light, an actual volt meter. If you have a voltage drop on that wire when cranking it won't fully engage the starter solenoid. You should see a minimum of 11 volts on that wire when cranking. If you're seeing 10 V or less, you've got voltage drop.
I think that's why some people say to use a larger wire.
Could be any number of things causing voltage drop at the starter signal terminal. But if have have some voltage there I'll try and work with it before I spend time trying to search where the gremlin is. That solenoid requires amps to operate, a Bosch cube relay only requires milliamps to trip it. I'll wire in a cube relay at the starter using the battery terminal at the starter for source and use the existing signal wire to trip the relay. Many times this fixes that voltage drop problem.
That's probably what the JD guys were doing.
Simple to do, and may fix your problem if you have voltage drop of signal wire to starter. Connect existing signal wire to 86, connect 85 to ground with 16 ga wire. Send 12 ga wire from starter battery terminal to 30, send 12 ga wire from 87 to start terminal on starter.
WOW! All I can say is WOW. It's mind-boggling! You guys amaze me with your infinite knowledge and mechanical skills. First off, I am not mechanically inclined. I try, but I 100% rely on all the advice I get from you responders and whatever else I can get from googling the internet. Even then, as I stated in a previous post, I have to take pictures of your posts so I can step by step check everything. When working on the unit I take pictures to remind me of the replacement process. Guys, I want you all to know I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. If it takes me a couple of days to reply I'm 84 years old with CMT peripheral neuropathy. My fingers are numb and bent making it hard for me to grip small bolts, nuts, washers, and tools. What used to take me an hour might now take three or four. The golden years are not golden.
I would have never guessed you were 84! You are an inspiration to all us younger guys who can only hope to still be running equipment in our 80's. That's awesome, Tinkerer on this forum is also in his 80's and is an exceptional human being. I get fatigued easily due to cancer treatments but if I was close to you I'd take a look at your starter. Maybe there is a member on here who lives close to you that could come over and give you a hand? It might be good to make a new thread stating your approx. whereabouts asking if another member might be able to come over and help you.
Welder Dave: I just got through reading Steve Frazier's forum rules in its entirety. I discovered I was in violation by using all capitals a few times. Sorry. I also looked through all the different forums to see if there was one site specific to posting about anyone living near North East Indiana. I saw none. How do I go about sending a particular member a message without using a forum's space like now? Thank you.
Look at the top right corner of your screen for an envelope icon. That is where your “private messages” or “conversations” reside. Click on that icon and on the screen that pops up you’ll see a blue “start a new conversation” button. Click that, select who you want to message, and hopefully everything will be pretty clear from there on.
Nige. Thank you.
OK. Been busy with mowing lawn (18 acres), spraying weeds in the driveway, around two barns, two houses, pond, three golf greens and several sandtraps. My wife and our daughters have been in Maine for the past two weeks so I had to do the upkeep myself. Today a bobcat mechanic that is a friend of a friend will be out to check it out. Will let you know the results.
It's running. After all the advice from you gentlemen and trying everything, it was a simple fix. Even though I had taken the battery cables off and cleaned them as best I could, I neglected to peel back the plastic wrap to check further up the positive cable. The repairman drove into town with the old cable. Bought two lengths of #4 cable and a battery post end, came back, connected the cables together installed them and..... Walla!!!! We're back in business. I not only got it working again but I made a new friend that I definitely would call again. Thank you so very much to all who responded to my posts. Have a great one. I love you.