In the market for a bigger skid steer. I am currently running a ASV RC100. I've had it for 10 years and its made me a few bucks. I am not replacing it, I just want something a bit bigger and a track system that is less expensive to maintain. I am stuck between a Ghel 7810/Mustang 2910 with a VTS track kit or a Kubota SVL90. The Bobcat 870's are out of my price range and I hate the lack of rear visibility. Everyone tells me that the 7810 is a beast, but on paper its not any bigger or better than the Kubota. I'm sure the Kubota is made a bit better overall. The Ghel's are cheep but after installing the track kit I'm into SVL90 territory price wise. And the 7810 with the track kit is 88" WIDE! Which means I need a 90" bucket which is a bit of an oddball size. I've read up on the early problems with the Ghels. Looks like the "newer" E models with the cummins engines are the way to go. Although I have a 100 hp Perkins in my RC100 and I've never had a single problem with it in 2000 hours. Any feedback on either machine would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!
Wow, 88" wide is really wide. I had a CASE 440 with VTS and I had very good luck with it. CASE dealer put the machine into rental after I traded it in and it has been there for the last two years still running strong. My VTS experience was positive but not everyone has had that experience. I had broke a drive chain on my 440 that I attribute to operator error. I got a great deal on the VTS on Iron Planet. I would not have been as happy if I had paid the 15K they want for the VTS system from a dealer. I personally would get a dedicated CTL than to go the VTS route if you are paying new price on the skid steer and VTS.
It looks like a decent used ghel is around 30 and the track kit from my local dealer is 18. So that puts me at about around the 50ish range which is also what I can get a decent 2012 ish SVL90-2 for. Can the 7810 pick up more weight with the track kit installed? I would think so seeing that the front toe rollor of the track makes contact with the ground further ahead than a tire would. Which should give you more leverage right?
Also, I know the 7810 is a big machine but does it have enough power to stick a 90" toothed bucket into the ground? With the VTS.
The VTS will certainly increase the ROC of the Gehl. The VTS weighs about 1500 pounds per side and with the larger diameter front roller it wont tip as easy. I would guess you would have a ROC of somewhere of around 5-5500K. The 7810 is certainly large, but you don't here a lot positive as far as reliability.
I'm well aware the build quality of the Kubota is much better than any ghel. what are the common problems with the ghel? I also heard the lifting capacity is a bit less if they have joystick controls. Internal reliefs and such as compared to hand and foot or T bar controls. Is that true?
I love my SVL90, easy to get in and out if the cab and I havent had anything it won't pick up yet. The cab layout is ok some knobs are under the lap bars when down but I haven't had a problem reaching them once I got used to their locations a d the vents for the heat/AC is all on the left hand side, not sure why they could t s ram one over to the left side but it hasn't been a problem for me. The hydraulics are smooth and responsive and its not terrible to service, lots of panels in the bottom for a clean out too, and its fairly hard to not find a Kubota dealer, I'm not sure who sells Gehl near me. The one big problem I see is the width of the Gehl, if you have a trailer with raised fenders it will never fit between em'.
Thanks for all the responses guys. I've learned a lot lurking around on this forum. A lot of good people on here. I've already committed and bought a 9 ton deck over tilt trailer to haul whichever big ol' CTL I decide on, so dimensions are not an issue. I know you can't go wrong with the ANY Kubota. It's like buying a Honda....... anything. I have the need to handle heavy material and also excavate. Just about 50/50. I am trying to decide if I'd be better off with the BIG lifting capacity and reach height of the monster Gehl with the VTS or the reliability and general day to day use of the SVL90. What I really want to know is how big of a headache the 7810E will be reliability wise. I'm ready to put up with some nonsense if I can handle material that other CTL's wouldn't. I still have a RC100 that has treated me well for 10 years besides the expensive undercarriage. To me, ADDING a SVL90 is like having another ASV but with a much cheaper drive train and a bit more ROC and MORE ground PSI. The 7810E with VTS seems like a whole different machine. I'm assuming bigger and more clumsy. Hand and foot controls, a foot and a half wider! HIGH 4's in ground PSI.(RC100 has 3.5) but if can pick up a 14"x14"x40' long steel beam and walk away with it then I NEED IT!
Nearly positive the 7810 won't outlift the SVL90-2 in any circumstance. A wheeled machine is rated at 50% of tipping capacity. For whatever reason tracked machines are rated at 35% of the tipping capacity.
Well this is what I'm trying to figure out. Loegering tell's you just about everything except the tipping or ROC's with there track kit. By physics alone, adding the track kit should increase its lifting potential providing it has the hydraulics to do it. Which I have heard 7810's have the more pick than they do front tires. The track kit looks like it puts your front toe (fulcrum) closer to the face plate. Which is the correct direction to go to gain leverage.
The Kubota will not out lift a wheeled 7810 with VTS. Like said the VTS is 1500 per side. My 440 with VTS would out lift my 465. The only way the 7810 wont out lift it is if it electronic gagged somehow. However I am pretty sure they are not that technically advanced. If you have some thing that you need to move that can take advantage of the huge lift capacity of the Gehl than that could justify it. Outside of that I don't see what the advantages really are. I am not a fan of the Kubota CTL but I would take one over the Gehl. They are not going to tell you what the ROC or tipping is with the VTS and they all have to do with liability. You can way out lift the design of a machine with the VTS.
I DO need the lift capacity. As far as material handling I really need something like a small Lull but it NEEDS to be able excavate. Like I said I'm 50/50 with it. I don't handle much with forks. It's always out on a boom. The further out the better. The stuff I handle every day is at least a ton and the further out on the boom(more reach) the better.
And I'm still wondering about the excavation side of it. If the 7810 with VTS has enough balls to fill up a 90" bucket it will obviously move a lot more dirt than my RC100 or a SVL90. That's a foot and a half wider than my ASV! That adds up trip after trip. But that's a lot of bucket.
I didn't factor in the added counterweight of the VTS. If the 7810 has the breakout force, it could take advantage of that weight I'm checking the Gehl portal to see if they still have the technical specs posted to look up the arms' breakout force spec. The Mustang 2109/Gehl7810 arm force is 5888lbs; the SVL90-2's is 6742lbs.
Well the Gehl may be where you want to be than but I am not really sure why your trying to accomplish this type of task with a SSL. If a telehandler is what fits best, than get one of those. You already have an ASV that can dig. Manatou makes a nice compact telehandler. Maybe this would be an option http://www.wackerneuson.us/en/products/pg/wheel-loaders-bucket-capacity-lt-065m3/prod/5055.html
I already have a JCB 210SL and a 950 Cat for wheel loaders, and three more Cat track loaders. I don't want to haul every machine I own to every job site if I don't have to. I haven't seen that breakout force spec. That's a pretty big difference. I have had my mind set on the SVL90 for a while until I saw a 7810 in person. I never even knew they existed. When I think of Ghel and Mustang I think of farmers shoving cow poop around, not what I do for a living. There's not a lot of info and feedback out there on VTS kits on Ghels because (I think) not many people justify putting 18 thousand dolor track kits on 18 thousand dolor machines.
Have you priced a T770? More machine than the SVL90, and way better IMO. Quieter, smoother as well.
The rear visibility in the 770 and 870 bobcats are so bad they are dangerous. The gigantic armature behind the cab is a big problem for what I'm going to do with it. I deal with a lot of height restrictions.
Have you ran the Kubota yet? We put one side by side the the 770 this fall before we bought it. The difference between the two is really pretty negligible. Maybe 2 feet to an obstacle when backing up and it goes out of site? I guess I'm just speaking for the bobcat so much because the overall fit and finish seems so much better to us, and our dealer is beyond awesome so far.
I ran bobcats before I went to ASV. They have always been top notch quality wise in every respect. If I was to go that route I would go for the 870. still to tall for me. I think it's more than a 2 foot difference in rear visibility. Even so, 2 feet is enough run something or someone over.
I have not ran a Kubota yet. Finding a used one in NY is impossible. They only exist for sale on paper and computer screens. When you want to buy one they are always out on rental.
True enough. We just couldn't accept the less than perfect cab. And, serviceability is better on the Bobcat.
Yeah, we had to beg, beg, and beg some more, then pay $150 to get them to bring us one. Then, the salesman seemed almost enraged when we told him we were going with the Bobcat. They were delivered at the same time and we ran them side by side.
I've been begging sence August, still haven't seen one. The 770 and 870 are awesome machines be the overall height of them really kills it for me. And they do cost a bit more.
As far as your question about using 90",i use a 84" bucket all the time with out problems CTL Deere 332.That is a high cap 1-yard bucket also.You only talking 3" more on each side of the bucket.Probably have to have the bucket custom made for 90",but there might be a few that are out there.Good luck
Bobcat sells a nice 90" bucket with teeth for about 2 grand. I think there an option for the T870.
Easy get the Kubota, amazing machines.
I have a SVL-90 and must say it is top notch. It only has 175 Hrs. and has worked flawlessly. Typical Kubota quality. If I was looking for a new machine I would stick with Kubota.
Thanks for all the response guys. They were all very helpful. I found a 7810 with the Perkins fairly local and got it so cheep that I can afford to fix any major problems with it in the near future. Its a plain Jane work horse, open ROPS, T bar controls, no heater but it does have high flow and low hours. I'm going to put the VTS on it as soon as I get it. I think I'm just going to widen the bucket it comes with to 90" I'll still have less money in it even with the brand new track kit than I would buying a decent used Kubota. The Ghel is definitely more machine if it stays running! I'll let everyone know how it works out for me. I'd love to put some good info out there on this machine with the track kit because there's not a lot out there now.
You may want to find out what size tracks your VTS will require. There are a bunch of VTS tracks going up on Iron Planet on the 15th. You could pick up a second set of tracks for at least half price. I did not see any actual VTS systems just tracks but I may have missed something. This is how I got my VTS, it was new on the pallets for 5K.
Good luck with your purchase. May you have many productive hours in the seat. Have some fun too!
Thanks guys. Trying to find a used set for the 7810 is pretty tough. There are naturally a lot more out there for smaller more popular machines. I already figured the cost of a new kit in the cost of this thing. After owning 2 RC100's for many years, I never even thought about buying used tracks. I only get about 1000 hours on my ASV's. Putting used sets on those is just chasing your tail. Not worth the labor(that I do myself!) And the cost more than any replacement VTS track I have seen. What I'm trying to say is after maintaining 2 Posi-tracs for so long ANY undercarriage even brand new is going to be way cheaper than what I'm used to. 42 bogey wheels per machine for Christ sake!
It sounds like you need to demo the SVL90 to see if it'll pick what you need it to...
I personally cannot see now the Gehl is better then the kubota. Other then the fact that it can technically lift a little more. The difference isn't nearly large enough to see why it would preform better then a Kubota. Owning the ASV's has gotten you used to the joystick controls. If you are lifting things I would rather have the joystick controls which you can easier make smooth movements. If you get a new operator on it, it would be much safer. The kubota can dig much better then Gehl. The only issues I have heard about the kubota is the cab isn't the best, and thats really it. But I can't see how the gehl cab is better. I would definitely take another look at the Kubota machines. If I were going to buy a CTL I would buy the Kubota in a heartbeat. Also I can see how the cats are very expensive but I would look at the T770 Bobcat.