Hi really need some help with my cummins engine I have 1978 855 NTC that is smoking badly, the truck overheated and was blowing heavy white smoke, so I took apart the top of the engine and had the heads checked. The three head gaskets looked ok not blown through. sent heads out supposedly pressure tested one was leaking through the injector seat, had all six changed, heads surfaced and rebuilt valve job, valve guides etc. I put the engine back together and set injectors and valve lash. Fired up the engine it sounded horrible, like a rap in the first cylinder but went away as you increased the rpm's. Took non contact thermometer and measured exhaust temp at manifold ,found no 1 not firing. Changed the injector, started up again much better but still smoking like a train. Brought engine up to operating temp 180 smoke went away but came back while driving. Took valve cover off 1&2 cylinder, head loads of white cream in the section above # 1 piston, ran engine and noticed vapor coming up out of section above # 1 cylinder. Also water vapor droplets on valve cover. Rear breather spiting out small amounts of the white cream I mentioned before. I feel the machine shop did not check the heads properly, and # 1 is cracked. Can anyone tell me what checks I can do before I tear the top half off again. I will buy a new head if needs be . Any help would be great !!!! Thanks
Welcome to the forum, I think I would pull the front valve cover and exhaust manifold section & pump the radiator upto 10 or 15 lbs maybe you will see it drip
do you think it is cracked ?, I will try that in the am thanks
Sounds like a coolant leak, get it hot, pull all covers, drain oil, leave drain plug out with clear pan under it, plum in shop air, 15psi, let it sit overnight and check in the morning, most likely find coolant in drain pan and on top of head or heads.you can pull intake and exhaust also to see if coolant in either port.
If a feller had a borescope this would be the chance to use it. Pull the injector, pressurize the cooling system, drop the borescope down the copper injector cup and take a look around. These engines always did smoke white when cold due to fixed timing. Did you swap injectors to a different hole to see of it is a bad injector or a bad hole?
Thanks guys I tried changing injectors helped a little but as the engine got warm it smoked a lot like a train in the old west. Like I said I pulled front cover completely covered in white oily residue, could not do more got hit with big snowstorm, back to it sat. to answer the engine never smoked anything like this before it was overheated. the injector cups were all changed along with surfacing the heads and valve job. the engine pours out white smoke when you drive it and when you accelerate it will kill anyone behind you. thanks trying compression test when my tester arrives
If the heads checked good and you installed them correctly the next place is the liner or counter bores. What condition is the coolant? Being that old I would say the liner should be pulled. The upper and lower counter bores are leaking and need to be cut. Only use cummins O rings on the lower counter bores.
Is this white smoke or black smoke?
at idle a little black smoke but as it warms up complete white smoke, I am sure of how good the guy tested the heads. the oil is turning milky and the antifreeze is brown
at idle a little black smoke but as it warms up complete white smoke, I am sure of how good the guy tested the heads. the oil is turning milky and the antifreeze is brown
Don't forget to check air compressor head & gasket , and after cooler core . Both can be isolated from the system pretty easy & run engine for a short time only to see if any change in the white smoke . Another trick is remove water pump belt and water manifold . Have the truck positioned so the engine is level with water at the top of the head coolant ports . Then run the engine for a short time ( 5 minuets ) and look for bubbles on each head . This will help isolate a possible cracked head or liner leaking . White smoke out of a cold Cummins is most likely fuel but the way you are describing the problem it sounds like coolant . Both fuel and coolant have a distinctive smell . Use your sniffer . LOL . Does the white smoke burn the eyes & make ya choke . Or smell sweet like anti freeze ?
Thanks td actually when cold and at idle slightly black smoke, if you rev up the engine it turns white and gets worse really bad when warmed up. It does not stop smoking and give it fuel and wow the smoke is amazing. My engine does not have an aftercooler. The thing that baffles me is vapor coming up out of # 1 valve body over # 1 cyl, # 2 nothing. I want to check compression in #1 & #2. The white vapor puffs out of the dipstick tube and the oil filler tube as if is a locomotive. To me that is a sign of a cracked head allowing compression into the crankcase, the head gaskets are all new and sequential torqued to 315 ft lbs. I do not think these gaskets would leak that fast the truck only has maybe two hours of run time since repair. I have to fix this truck but I am an Electrician with a decent amount mechanical experience, but I need a lead to problem solving this. Everyone gives me different directions but nothing in any type of order very confusing. I will check the smoke smell and continue investigations. talk soon Ralph
Ralph. I would think if you have white vapor on top of #1 only that when warm with fuel shut off you should be able to trace it just cranking it over with a helper. Sometimes things are simple and sometimes not.
855 cummins This is very true but in my work you have certain procedures for each problem, systematically finding the answer. believe me I will try all replies one at a time just trying to discover a path to the answer. again thanks to all replies I will keep all of you posted anymore ideas keep them coming !
Yes, it can be frustrating trying to diagnose a problem over the internet . It's different without the sights, feel , smell & sound of the engine . All good advice on the thread . I think your close to finding the trouble . This is the order that Cummins recommends tracking down the symptom of internal coolant leakage in the 855 1 air compressor cylinder head cracked , porous , or gasket leaking . 2 Aftercooler leaking 3 Lubricating oil cooler leaking 4 Cylinder head gasket leacking 5 Cylinder head cracked or porous 6 Injector sleeves not seated or damaged 7 Cylinder liner cracked / porous or bottom O rings leaking 8 Cylinder block cracked or porous If you plan on keeping the truck & working on the engine in the future I highly suggest this book . http://www.cumminspartsdirect.com/3810298 I have 4 of these engines in use but I don't work on them on a daily basis so as time passes on my memory gets foggy and find myself reaching for the book when we do work on one of them . Also threads like this help jog the memory , It's hell getting older I used an 855 Cummins this evening to drag in some firewood . LOL ! http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/td25c/media/100_3142_zpstbav7evf.mp4.html?o=0
nice bulldozer I wish my engine ran,sounded, and smoked like yours. that manual you suggested is for big cams my engine is a small cam still OK? you anywhere near southbend?
Yeah , the dozer has a 855 big cam 300 in it . I want to say the engine is 1983 vintage . I'm in southern IN . Yes , I would still suggest the manual I linked to in post # 15 even though your engine is a small cam model as both engines are very similar . It's a Troubleshooting manual . In the front of the book it gives a list of symptoms . Then it gives a list of possible causes of the problem & repair procedures . I would recommend it to any Cummins 855 owner . I cant find a troubleshooting manual for the small cam but I did see they had a service manual for it . http://www.cumminspartsdirect.com/3379076 Is your small cam a 290 buy chance ?
ntc230 1978 vintage I went to Syracuse Indiana to buy a Vermeer rock saw a company called Cripe Excavating nice country and people are great not like NY
td your list 1 no oil coming out of air compressor 2 do not have aftercooler 3lubricating oil cooler do not think it is leaking, but I do not think that would give me white smoke in the exhaust 4 head gasket leaking, probable but after only 3-4 hours run time? It is brand new and torqued correctly. The engine made a popping noise from the first startup and smoked badly, the smoke remained but the noise goes away as you increase fuel. we found a bad injector # 1 cylinder with infared temp sensor, changed it the engine got better but the smoke remains 5 I think this is the ticket 1&2 head has given me the bad lifter, probably suffered the most when the truck overheated, the valve cover over #1 had whipped cream oil over #1 cyl in the valve cover. with the engine running there is vapor coming up out of #1 valves area 6 injector sleeves are brand new all 6 you saw blue sealer around the top of the sleeves when I looked at the heads after I picked them up from the head shop 7 liners cracked do not know, how do you check? 8 cyl block cracked do not know how do you check?
Before buying that one how about this on on Ebay? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-Die...Manual-USED-OEM-3379076-04-USED-/400811230719 Not mine but just a quick Google search came up with it. As a matter of fact I just may have one, I'll try to find it at work in the morning.
There you go ! I didn't think about looking on Ebay .
I agree , it sure sounds like you have a cracked head . Almost like the head is cracked on the internal / crankcase side and it's leaking coolant inside the engine . Most cases cracks in the combustion side of the head or a cylinder liner will pressurize the radiator & blow coolant out the over flow . That happened on my dozer one time . Fired it up one morning and all the sudden had antifreeze overflowing out the radiator cap . Turned out to be a bad cylinder liner . Overhauled the bottom end and fixed the problem .
should I confirm with a compression test or just throw it at the headshop owner
I'd consider dropping the oil pan and take a look at the cylinders from the bottom. See if any water is coming down between piston and liners. If you see something turn engine over to put that piston at top and look to see if it is coming from a hole in the liner. Or see if it is coming between the liner and the block. If the cooling system was not maintained well at any point in its life both the block and the liners could have damage.
DoyleX thanks but this would explain water in the crankcase oil not coming into engine combustion. If I am assuming correctly and anti freeze was maintained by me
Get a couple bottles of Irontite and down the road she goes! http://www.irontite.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1
doylex does that stuff really work?
question can you bump up the hp of the 855 I am planning to rebuild a motor for the truck.? also are all the heads interchangeable?
Are you rebuilding the 230 cummins in the truck ? Or another engine ? Is that 230 turbo charged ?
I have the engine in the truck also have another engine that was given to me
OK . Any identification on the spare 855 cummins , is it a small cam engine like the 230 in the truck ?
will get all your questions answered this week been overwhelmed with work, question though why is it so bad to use all capital letters in a post?
All caps is internet shouting.
really ok never knew that thanks
Thanks to you people who helped me with my 855, I have another question to replace my head is there a certain number head I need to use and how do I find that number ?