Now it's on to some bucket repairs where the back heel of the bucket has worn off. Have some new 1/2" plates cut & ready to go on once the old mess is gouged off.
How about I drag the GP off my Allis up there, looks like you do not have enough to do and I could sure use the hand rebuilding mine!!!! I am in the process of ordering some AR steel plate in sheared panels so I can replace the entire bottom of the bucket, will probably end up going to Cat for a cutting edge wide enough to fit full mouth width and then set some salvage 955H bucket teeth to it. I will most likely end up with this as a winter project. Looks good as far as all repairs to date BTW.
Better wait & see how my bucket turns out first!! Managed to get a start on it today by cleaning the old plate off of the one side. I am just using mild steel, as with a machine of that age & the amount I use it, I will never wear the softer material out. After I get the bucket fixed up, that pretty well corners up everything I need to do on it for now. BTW, how is the "No Ser #" repair coming along?
My repairs are essentially complete save the internal rehab. I am walking up to three miles across a days time usually 1 to two miles of a morning and another in the evening. Have fallen off my lower carb diet for a short time regained five pounds so as of tomorrow back to the low intake and harder at the rehab. Did have a nasty round with spasms, had just made a extension from 1.5 to 2.5 miles a day and with the healing came nerve reconnections, that set off a few nasty bouts of muscle spasms that required a anti inflammatory and relaxants to calm down. Those have slowed to damn near nothing and am ramping the acceleration back to functional back up. Nice gas axe work. I do almost as good with my old bottle axe scrubbing or washing away the residue after hacking a damaged piece away. Seriously prefer to a carbon arc or a plasma for old work. What is the front to back width on your cutting edge(un-scalloped areas)and the thickness? I am going to need a 1" thick by 10" wide by 78" long piece for my project, can use longer so to replace edge wear plates and cutting edges. I am thinking will need to order against a 955K dependent on the dimensions.
Somebody reinforced my cutting edge on the Case 580K front. As it sees very heavy service with boulders it can't hope to lift, I felt the reinforcement was beneficial. Trouble was, running the bucket flat on the surface left the cutting edge running 1/2" higher than the flat surface I wanted to extend. The solution was a pair of runners sticking back on the plane of the cutting edge. Made from heavy 6" wide channel they solved the problem. Trouble was they were mild. I found some high manganese DCEP rod that works wonderfully. several runners lengthwise on the soft preserves it indefinitely. All this AR400 steel is for a different purpose. Older machines that get fewer hours don't always need the same bucket they use in a granite quarry. Willie
Thanks for the thoughts Willie. I had considered that route but the old bucket is worn through in five places already on the bottom wear surfaces. It has a false bottom under the moldboard of the bucket that I am going to rebuild. As to the use of softer steels, my farm is in the 'Stoney Hill' country south of Hermann MO, we have broken flint, chert, sandstone and some hard dolomitic limestone in the hills, eats up any of the soft metal I put on the machine so I add hard or harder metals as I can to save having to cut and refit too often. I have welded hard facing rod to most of my MP bucket surfaces extending its life but the damned bucket is so heavy and about a half yard smaller than the GP I got with the spare parts machine I want to start using next year. Have a great deal of New pond work, rooting out old dead wood and brush, working to revise a creek bottom that has gotten out of control as to washes and erosion that has a solid rock bottom. I probably actually need a newer machine but do not have the finances to cover. Just a old wrench bender stuck with a work in progress!
I certainly understand the logic of using abrasion resistant steel. I was suggesting to Metalman that since he has opted for mild steel in the heels of his bucket he could gain some protection with the manganese rod. I've had no experience with other varieties of hard facing. I do love the manganese as it doubles as filler rod with about 130,000 tensile rating. I can build up worn parts, or attach grouser stock to build up the corners of bucket edges. It doesn't work as well where ductility is essential. Like you, I always shy away from adding so much weight to a bucket the hydraulics can't lift it. Sometimes hollow steel with hard surface works as well as solid. Willie
Just use hardfacing for abrasion with moderate impact. I think you might be confusing manganese with high tensile stainless base rods as they are 120-130,000 psi.
Work in progress........I decided to replace the bottom plate as well, so am gouging it off with carbon arc. It had worn down to 3/16" along the one edge.
Hey DM. If you are taking a statin drug for cholesterol, you may be suffering those muscle spasms as a side effect. I suffered for four years with debilitating cramps and spasms until I stopped the statin. My doc is not happy, but his back was not cramping. Regards, Clark
Got the old bottom plate off & am prepping for the new plate. Have decided to replace it with 5/8" mild steel. Almost all of my work on the hobby farm is clay & top soil work, so abrasion is not an issue here........ Someone had welded the tooth shanks on ( poor welding) so I gouged out those welds too & will re-weld the shanks on as well.
The old cat shanks I have only have one bolt thru bot sides of the shank and cutting edge, rear bolt is just thru shank top and edge so they are a weld on for me. I won't care so long as they do not break away!! Will have to get some pics of the project Before on here.
My cutting edge is 8" Deep x 1" Thick x 80" Wide.
Thanks, that should work, 8" minimum on width is all I need, will work from that with my supplier. BTW, what is the machine back behind the 941, looks to be a Cat with the blade off?
I have access to a blaster at very reasonable cost, so had the bucket blasted on the outside & bottom this morning. Should make the repair much easier now!! Ready to start welding cracks & filling the deep gouge marks up, then add the new plates on & weld them up. There is lots to do before the plates go on though. DM.......in answer to your question about the other machine, there are 2 D4D's parked there, neither operational at the moment, but once the 941 project is complete, plan to start on the newer one as weather permits, as all of my work is outside....D4D Ser 83Jxxxx with power shift (RH side in the picture). Found it on a scrap pile 2 years ago & it runs but needs a lot of work...........much of it is cosmetic though as much of the sheet metal is missing or damaged from being handled at the scrap yard. Hope to make one machine operational out of the two.
Look worthy enough to reclaim, good work on saving them.
I managed to get the bottom 5/8" plate plasma cut c/w 3 plug weld holes, dogged down, tacked & then a perimeter weld laid down today. Will fit the heel shoes next.........
Set the welder up for all position .045 Flux Core & am working at welding the 5/8" plate down. Quite windy here today & had to set up a wind screen of sorts to help with the porosity, although I could not eliminate it altogether welding outside.
I own a Millermatic 210 wire feed, no flux core just cover gas solid. I use it only in the shed with the door down and on clean materials as it lays a consistent good bead when no air circulating. For deep and stronger welds I fall back to stick 7018. Will be using those on my old bucket rebuild. Very nice work there.
Got the bottom 5/8" plate all welded up & have the new 1/2" replacement heel plates tacked on & ready to weld up. There are some gaps at the back of the heel to fill though.......... Five more hours of welding & I should be done.........then splash some paint on it!
Would you be willing to share the details of the flux core. I have the MM252. I love the welder with solid wire, and gas. My one try with flux core was I believe .035 and it didn't work. Since then I learned I'd have to reverse polarity to get the jetting action stick rod gets its famous penetration from. I love gas shielded MIG, but sometimes it is too breezy to use. I've also heard of Dualshield. I was of the impression I'd need another 100 amps to make that work. Willie
This is the wire that I use for Flux Core, best to use straight CO2 gas to shield. I ran at 26V for the LH setting & 501 for the RH setting, for flat welding. Re the supply for the welder, I am running single phase, 240Volts & have a 30 Amp feed. I did trip the breaker twice over the last couple of days when pouring it in real heavy. Just left it cool down a bit & away I went again. It does a really nice job with the .045 flux core. This was the first time that I set the welder up for flux core......usually I am .035 hard wire with that welder.
Is straight CO2 better, or just cheaper? I might try with 25% as I have it. I'm in an Airgas or Maine Oxy world. Tank leases are staggering expensive, and I have so many varieties now. They won't fill big tanks if I managed to buy them. Helium is the worst. Willie
Actually, you gun is de-rated when you run the 75/25 mix vs the straight CO2. With the mixed gas operation, more heat is reflected back to the gun, thus reducing its output capacity. I believe there is a 40-50% reduction in the gun output when running the mixed gas option. Here is a good You Tube video that shows the proper set up for .045 flux core on the Millermatic 252. It is very helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjVeO4G6Bpk
I've been scanning your posts....nice work! I have an old Deere 450B with a 4in1 that need similar work. I'll be taking notes on re-skinning. Great job! DB
On the home stretch now..........have to turn the bucket on its ends to weld where the heel plates overlap. Some nasty gaps from excessive wear to deal with (plus where the cutter guy got carried away !!) & welding flat will be easier to deal with those tricky spots.
Tipped the bucket up on its end to weld the inside of the heel plates.....made that part go much easier with the gaps to fill. Think I have the welding about done now......mostly cleanup work with the grinder & then some paint.
It has become evident you have little need for advice. Nice work. I'm envious. You got lots of toys. Willie
Coming along nicely! Are you going to have to paint the rest of the machine so it matches the new bucket? DB
Hey, metal man nice work. I did something similar for my 953 a . Howhat many hours you got on this repair and how did you bend the heel plate angles?
Labparamour...........Likely will not do any painting on the machine itself, just the bucket for now. If the machine ends up to be a keeper (I have only owned it for a year now) I may paint it down the road. Rather deal with more urgent repairs first, although I am mostly through the list now.........have to run it a while on my hobby farm & go from there. Georgia Iron........I would estimate about 35 hrs total on the bucket repairs. The heel plates were formed in a press brake. The bucket repair was an interesting project that I enjoyed.
Did you make the boss and bearing, and if so what was your method? I need bushings replaced on my bucket but don't know the method of replacement
I do not have access to a brake so do my bending with a gas axe and 10" sledge, seems OK for what I have to do!!
Actually, soon after I purchased the loader last year we welded up the sloppy pin bosses the best we could & cleaned up the welds with an internal grinder, on the lower main bucket pivots. There are no bearings in the bucket bosses, just in the tip of the loader arm that fits between. On the loader arm tips I had to replace the bearings. The loader arm tips were so badly worn that I had to weld up the of bore where the bearings fit in, carefully grind, then push the new bearings in. It was a tedious task, but it improved things a lot. Now there is very little movement. If you look at the pictures that I just attached, you can see the internal welds that were laid in there when that job was done. It is not a perfect job, but it made things much better & I can do it again if need be. I put all new pins in when the repairs were made as well.
That certainly sounds like a tedious process. My bucket bosses are egged out about a 1/4"+ and I'm considering doing something similar or a DIY boring bar... I appreciate you posting your work. DB
Some pin sizes can be matched with DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing. Alignment can be challenging in that nothing stays where it is put when it gets welded. Adjusting with a die grinder, or boring bar may be necessary after. Line boring with welding may produce best results, but it's beyond the limits of many of us. Interesting stuff, very expensive, and high skill level. Willie
Did you preheat before welding?
If you are referring to the pin bosses on the lower bucket hinge point, I think I may have, as that was done in cold weather. On the last bucket re-plating project I did no preheating, except to just warm & dry things up a bit when wet.
I think it is possible to build up a hole that is about 1/4" out of round with weld if you have a pin size that is close to mine or bigger. I believe my pins are about 2" or slightly larger. I think my buildup was about 3/16 at the worst point. I had to weld the bearing in the tip of the boom, at each end, as it was so badly worn & too hard to get it lined up perfectly, then pressed in. Also by welding the bearings in at the ends, that forces the grease to lubricate the joint where it was intended, in the center id of the bearing, otherwise with little gaps it can come out between the bearing & the loader frame id. If you can line bore it, you can just press it in without welding it once in place. It would be interesting to see what you could come up with for a DIY boring bar.
Boring bars are available from a number of sources. I believe a one time bar can be made from shafting Plain old hot rolled. drill a hole through it, grind a broken HSS drill bit, and hold it in place with red Locktite. Flange bearings are readily available for it. A powerful, slow drill motor is the stumbling block I haven't figured out. I wonder if it might be worth turning by hand for one project. The blade cylinders were beat up on my Dresser TD7G when I got it. I discovered the track shoes and chain are TD8G, too wide. Desperate, I felt fixing minimal wear in the non bushed pivot holes for the C frame might give a bit more clearance. I investigated THE EXPANDER SYSTEM. It is a great system, but VERY expensive. Line boring was as expensive, and I had to remove the undercarriage from at least one side. I was plotting using a hole saw powered by a Milwaukee Super Hog drill. Weld it up a little at a time, bore it out. I never got that far as I discovered the undercarriage had been replaced without replacing the sacrificial wear bars in the front idler slide. Making up 16 new bars, some welded in place, others bolted. gave enough clearance. I have often wished line boring were more available. There is only one professional in VT that I know of. He's 100 miles away, and charges big money for travel. Willie
That's some great work, I need to burn a lot more before I can even close to you. I think my bearings are gone (worn totally out) and I cannot even see the grease hole. Took a hone to the bore and still nothing
According to SIS the end of the boom should have one 7K9572 bearing and two 7K9203 seals in each side. Spec's for the bearings are: Width 78.58 mm or 3.093 inches O.D. 63.564 mm or 2.5025 inches I.D. 50.96 mm or 2.0062 inches
Well I reckon in my other thread there is still some bearing in there. Looks like I need to break out the torch and do a little cutting. Might not use the seals and do what metalman did and weld them in. Thanks
My findings agree with KH for size & part #'s, as I went & measured my new bearing for the 955L.
Sure works for me, and that's the same pin I have. Sure would be nice to see something that showed where the bearing ended and the arm begins
You said in the other thread that you have 2 9/16" in your bore, if the outside of the bearing is 2.5" it's completely gone and you have a sixteenth inch wear. That sixteenth is kinda small to weld up, but the bearing will crack quick if its put in there unsupported like that. I'd say welding the beads in there and hand grinding is better than nothing.
Wow, your right, I blew right past that. I need to build up the metal or maybe get a hold of a machine shop to make me a bushing to install first, or a sleeve to install before the bushing. Sure do wonder why I have no grease hole?
Yair . . . . Just a comment fellers, I have been following this thread with interest. When assemblies are fabricated as in Metalman's #34 post I have repaired them by gouging the welds from both sides of the boss and driving it out to find an accurate milled hole in the web. It is then possible to spin up a new bosses with a tap fit O/D, bore them to size for bushes if required and drive back into holes, square them up with a new pin and weld them back in place checking pin often and welding in sequence to keep it free . . . if it does go tight it won't be by much and can usually be freed up with an Arkansas/Mississippi/Birdsville hone. As I have mentioned before we used to fabricate and modify equipment in remote areas by using sections of D9 track bush for bosses and used the pins cut to length and floating and held captive by plates welded across the ends. At times we even utilised track links for pivot assemblies . . . there were several (I think Clark) loaders running for years with sets of D8 links welded to the loader arms and on the bucket and the bucket fastened on with the standard driven in master pin . . . I preferred the floating pin deal in the bush, it was easier to fit. These mods were run dry and such and when worn it was a simple job to blow off the welds and fit a complete new assembly . . . in those days track pins and links were cheap as chips compared to sending stuff to civilisation for machining. I realise the purists will shudder at such primitive methods but as I always say the dirt remains the same, it's only the way we try and move it that's changed. Cheers.
Sorry to barge into and side stepping metalmans thread (maybe best to comment on my thread) but with mine as worn out as it is, what would be the method to repair with that much gap?
I would either set up or rent a boring bar to align and true up the holes, have a local hydraulics shop lathe cut new bushings to fit the corrected bosses and install OE pins. Will be a simpler fix as the replacement bushings wear out to remove them and replace with another lathe cut bushing. As to the grease hole, when the bushings are cut, have the center of the outside diameter grooved full circle then drill two lube holes thru, that way no matter how aligned for grease holes the lube will still enter the pin area. Used to do this on the old Hendrickson suspensions when went to bronze pivots instead of rubber.
Lots of good methods mentioned here. I think for my bucket, building up w weld and boring would work best. I agree-line boring systems are $$$$…even to rent! Kieth Fenner had a video several years back where he built his boring bar., using a tooling insert in a piece of shafting. Looked to be a simple process. As Willie mentioned, turning/advancing the boring bar would be my challenge. I recently picked up a cheap mag drill. I'm hoping when I'm ready to do the work, that it will provide both the power and control to bore. DB
All are sounding good to me, but looking for the cheapest way. Did some more honing and the grease hole just cannot be found on either. Starting to think someone may have welded it up some time back. Also did some more measuring and have some spots which measure 2 5/8. Not getting a picture in my mind of a boring bar, maybe something like a reamer?
A boring bar will transit between both boss bores to keep the geometry straight Get the bores toed in or out or point up or down relative to each other and will eat pins. Could use a length of bar steel, set up some sort of alignment cones on one side while boring the other, swap and do again. Does not have to be solid shaft, could use PTO shafts or any other form of a drive assembly attached to a high hp drill or drive motor. Use common lathe bits, even the throwaways from Harbor freight or the budget supply houses.
Got a better picture of what it is thanks
Here is the finish product all painted up & back on. Even put some spacer washers in the main pivot to stop the side to side drift. Put never seize on the pins before putting them in too & greased everything well after assembly. I have a new spill plate coming from a local plasma cutting shop as the old on was fairly thin & beat up some. No......I am not going to paint the machine any time soon!!
That's a good looking bucket, great work
I believe this is the Fenner video I watched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8kmZ-9SjRA YouTube "line boring" and you'll find lots. Keith shows how he built his. Metalman, bucket looks great! DB
Very nice work, good paintjob but the machine stands out, time to paint the old girl too!!
Nah, just put her to work and soon that nicely rebuilt bucket will match the rest of the machine! DB
Here we are with the new spill plate cut out, painted & installed. No painting the rest of the machine for a while!!
I like it. Spill lip for my MP bucket was destroyed when bought it, cut it away but never needed as the bucket won't fill that much. My GP may need that touch so will file this away.
So, decided to make one more modification to the bucket project on the 941 Loader. One of the previous owners had welded a hook way down on the back of the bucket & since it was welded on well I decided to leave it as is. Trouble is when lifting from back there whatever is used for a sling/chain etc sort of has to make a sharp bend around the spill plate.......not good. I came up with this idea to overcome that sharp edge, two 5/8" plate ears & a piece of 2" XX heavy wall going right through them, all welded together. A smaller pin can even be run through the pipe & be a means of lifting too, if left sticking out both ends. I believe the id on the pipe to be about 1.5" ID, so a fairly heavy pin can fit through it. The bucket does not tilt far enough ahead for it to get in the way of anything I don't beli.
Very nice, will keep that in mind for mine.