Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and have a question if anyone has experienced the same issue. About a year or 3 ago the starter went out on my 1998 953C and was running pretty good with no codes prior to the starter going out. I replaced the starter late last year as I wasn't in a hurry to fix it (wasn't needed for a while), and once I replaced the starter I can start the engine, the bucket works but I can't go anywhere and there are many many codes showing up on the display. I have the service manuals and from what I read it states that if you get a large number of codes that the issue could be with the sensor cable being shorted out or open. I have not found any visible signs of the wiring to the sensors being bad (cut, chewed, etc.) however I have not placed my meter on the cable and will plan to do so soon. My question is if anyone has encountered this type of issue? Is there a sensor wire on the starter that I may have connected improperly (the manual has a wiring diagram and I think the starter is wired correctly as it does start the engine). Is there a special fuse perhaps (all fuses appear to be good) or perhaps a fusible link that may have opened? Any thoughts would be very appreciated. Many Thanks, CB
Machine Serial Number would be a good start. That will also get you the electrical schematic which you will need later. Second, scroll through all your Codes and watch carefully on the RH side of the screen for an icon that says "SERV CODE". Note the details of any Codes where that icon lights up which means they are Active. Iignore the ones where it does not light up, for now at least. Post a list of your Active Codes If you want to work on this yourself your are going to need a Click Box. Have a good read of this thread so that you understand what's going on. HeavyEquipmentForums
Many Thanks Nige. The serial number is Serial #4TF41160. In mine, in the right hand glove box storage area is a factory click box setup where I can scroll the codes and clear them (as well as adjust the tracking and many other things). I have cleared the codes many times and they all come back upon a restart of the machine (must be about ~15 or more). I have the codes written down and I will post them soon as I left them in my truck. Thanks again, CB
That’s the engine. The machine is 2ZN10464. Yes you do have the advantage of the on-board Click Box. Post the Active Codes and let’s see where that leads. I’ll send you the electrical schematic. Sounds like you’re going to need it.
Many Thanks, you are correct that the machine is 2ZN10464 and I must have grabbed the Serial #4TF41160 off the engine. I will take a look for the machine serial number when I am back at it, most likely later in the day and will review all of the codes again. I wrote them down but don't see them in my truck, perhaps they are in the machine, it will be easy to obtain the codes again though. ~CA
Check your PM's for the schematic
I went back out to the trackloader and when I was there, I heard some whining noise with the engine running and operating the front end loader, I went to check the hydraulic fluid level and found that the sensor there was disconnected, perhaps for a long time and may be responsible for some of the earlier codes. In any case, it is a bit low on hydraulic fluid but not for the main hydraulics that I checked with the dipstick. So perhaps unrelated. The loader starts and runs but the alarm is sounding and there is no action when trying to go forward or backwards. The current codes that display "SERV CODE" in the upper right of the display are only two now: 030 248F02 030 600F08 Previous codes that don't show "SERV CODE" in the upper right are: 030 096F03 030 117F04 030 271F06 030 324F06 030 819F02 If I remember correctly I hold down the dash code switch and the clear switch to clear the codes? Which I had done quite a while back but I didn't do so today. I could clear them and restart if that would be of more value? I found a plate on the dash, not sure which is the serial number for the machine perhaps: 9T5618 or maybe 514H100136 Thanks again, CB
You already mentioned it in post #5 above - 2ZN01464 (not 10464 as you mis-typed). I traced the 2ZN01464 number by working from the 4TF41160 engine number you gave earlier. This is important because there are different electrical schematics for machines above and below S/N 2ZN01750. Both of your Active Codes relate to the machine Monitoring System. 248F02 is a failure to communicate information between the various electronic controls and the Monitor ECM over the Cat Datalink. Specifically the data being sent/received is "erratic, intermittent, or incorrect". 600F08 is for the Hydraulic Oil Temperature Sensor, specifically "Abnormal Frequency, Pulse Width, or Peirod". I think the sensor you found disconnected at the hydraulic tank was probably that one. Try reconnecting it and observe whether or not the Serv Code warning for 600F08 goes away, making the code "logged" so that it can be erased later. Keep a close watch for the appearance of any other Active "600Fxx" Code appearing when you reconnect the hyd temp sensor. That could point to a sensor and/or wiring problem that would require further diagnosis. If this happens please DON'T just go ahead and replace the sensor, it could just as easily be a wiring fault. The first thing you have to do is to put the Monitor System into Service Mode, which I think from memory is Mode -3- as follows:- 1. Press and hold both the Service and Clear switches . The display panel on the Monitor should change to show -0- which will then change every couple of seconds to -1-, -2-, etc. When the screen shows -3- release both switches. 2. The first Diagnostic Code will automatically be displayed on the screen, scrolling between the Module reference (e.g. 030) and the Code (e.g. 248F02). 3. If the SERV CODE icon does not light up at that time, press and hold the Clear switch until the Code disappears. When you release the Clear switch the next Code on the list will automatically be displayed. 4. If the SERV CODE icon does light up the Code to which it refers cannot be erased at this time. Press and hold the Scroll switch until the next Code on the list is displayed. 5. Keep repeating Steps 3 & 4 until you are left with just the two Active Codes 248F02 and 600F08 that you mentioned above. 6. Press & hold the Service and Clear switches and only release them when the Monitor Panel shows that the system is back in Normal Operating Mode ( -0- ).
I did reconnect that sensor at the hydraulic tank up front but I will go back out there with some contact cleaner and clean the connection as it didn't look very clean. Then I will add some hydraulic oil for the front hydraulic tank (as it is a little low) and follow your steps and let you know. ~CB
A bit late in the day to ask but which (if any) warning lights are lit on the panel when the engine is a) stopped or b) running.? I'd say check that only after you have gone round and topped off all the fluids first.
I cleared all the codes except the two active codes that it wouldn't clear which are 030 248F02 and 030 600F08 and these are the only codes showing up now. Five dash indicators are on as in the image, this is with the engine running, I didn't take a picture before I started the engine although I think they all came on until started. Also the two left gauges are pegged over to full clockwise (hot) which I attached just an image from the brochure as I didn't grab a photo, but to show you which the two left gauges that I am referring too. I also noticed another thing I hadn't noticed before and that is with the engine running, and when I choose the dash button for the codes and other options, that is doesn't show any engine RPM when in the RPM selection screen even though the engine runs great from idle up to full throttle but it never showed any rpm on the indicator. Also, not too mention the unit will not move, the bucket will go up and down and sounds good again with the addition of some hydraulic oil, it is still a little low as I didn't realize that it must had been lower than I thought as I added almost 5 gallons, ever since I owned it ~18+years I would have to add hydraulic oil to that tank (in front of the windshield) once in a while, I didn't think it would need much seeing how I hadn't used the machine in a couple of years and I feel certain it had the proper amount of oil prior to the starter going out (must be a leak somewhere). I have gone out and started it up monthly, although only for ~15 minutes at a time. ~CB
This is all very unusual. Firstly the temperature warning lamps and glow plug lamp shouldn't really affect the travel, and if the machine is refusing to move, it should be setting an event code to let you know why. My best suggestion is to check if you have charge pressure by looking at calibration mode 5, submode 19. That should at least allow you to eliminate the possibility of a hydraulic failure. After that, I think you are going to need someone with ET to check it out. Also double check your starter wiring and go over the harnesses looking for rodent damage.
Exactly what I was thinking. That is too many parameters for it to be a sensor, sender, or wiring defect. My bet is you'll find a rodent's nest inside the dash somewhere.
I suspect rodent damage could be the issue although I have visually checked all the wires and haven't seen any damage. I recently purchased an 48" endoscope borescope camera that I plan to use to check in areas that are hard for me to see. I also had found rodent droppings when I replaced the starter and then put out plenty of mouse\rat poison and no longer saw any further rodent droppings since that time. I haven't pulled the dash panel to check for rodent damage there, good point to check that area out. For my layman thought, I don't think the computer realizes the engine is running which may be why the warning lights are all on (most all are on), and evidenced by the 0 rpm indicated with the engine running. I purchased a toner like tool similar to what the phone company used to use (maybe still do) where I attach one end (transmitter) to a wire\cable and then use a handheld receiver along the wire(s) being traced, supposedly a loud sound will indicate a short and then the absence of any sound (after having picked up the signal) is suppose to be where an open connection exists. Regarding the "Hydraulic Oil Temperature Sensor" code 030 600F08. Is that the sensor up front for the tank that holds the hydraulic fluid for the loader hydraulic cylinders that is near the tank fill and has a sight glass level indicator, or is that sensor something else and the one in the code being for the hydraulic pump for the drive motor? I have the manuals and will look it over more carefully, but I think there are two separate systems, the drivetrain hydraulics and the bucket loader hydraulics. There is a dipstick and separate fill tube for the transmission drive hydraulics but I didn't see any sensor there, unless it is part of the sensors and other components under the cab area and left side of the machine where the air filter is. Thanks again everyone, ~CB
Yes the hydraulic temp sensor is in the tank at the front. Also yes, the powertrain and implement hydraulics are two separate systems but they both use the hydraulic tank at the front. The separate fill tube and dipstick is for a splitter box and won't directly affect your problem. The splitter box has a temperature sensor which reads on the transmission temp gauge on the dash.
Thanks, I need to look everything over much more carefully and review the service manuals. One thought is that you have refreshed my memory regarding the hydraulic tank up front, somehow I was thinking it was only for the loader cylinders and was a separate system with its own tank. With that in mind, I hadn't checked that level in a long time until today because the loader bucket didn't sound like it had in the past today and was a bit jerky. In any case, I added 5 gallons and it didn't bring the fluid level up to the bottom of the sight glass, but the bucket and front end tilt cylinders did operate again smooth and quietly. My thought is to ask what would happen if that sensor was not submerged in the oil as may still be the case because it is only a couple inches below the sight glass? Perhaps not being submerged in fluid would cause it to give abnormal signals back to the computer. In any case, I plan to obtain more hydraulic fluid likely tomorrow and fill the tank back up to the green full area as it must have been a lot lower than I thought. Then I will clear the codes and see what happens. I wouldn't be surprised if I have multiple issues with it sitting for a couple years, and if there is rodent damage then likely in more than one location. My current thought is to address what I know such as low fluid level and perhaps that remedies the 600F08 Hydraulic Oil Temperature Sensor issue and then check all of the wiring very carefully for rodent damage. ~CA
I can tell you know that outcome is very unlikely. Either the sensor or its wiring is the most likely culprit.
Hello Nige and everyone. I had to put everything on hold earlier and now I am back working on the 953C Track Loader (as listed above). I found that the ECM was damaged after checking for harness wiring damage and ran out of items to check. I opened up the ECM case and found damage and I have now replaced the ECM with a used but reprogrammed ECM for my setup. Also, just FYI, I kept the batteries charged and started the engine monthly and operated the bucket to keep it all (all I could) operational. I no longer have the same codes as before except for the 030 600F08 (which I understand is the front hydraulic tank sensor and was the same code as prior, and the tank is still low on fluid (seems to have a leak somewhere, hose perhaps), I plan to fill it up and then replace the sensor if needed and then get the machine up to a better place to check the front hydraulic tank and hoses. However, I have new codes and the machine will still not move. These codes seem to be related to calibration and I have all the manuals from caterpillar for my machine and can lookup the calibration procedures again. I suppose a recalibration is to be expected, although I expected the machine would move even without being calibrated. So in part that is my question, should it move prior to calibration? The only codes now are (plus the 030 600F08 listed above) the following which are new, I cleared all of the previous codes. 079 299F13 466F13 467F13 468F13 Would these codes cause the machine not to move or should I look for other issues? I don't recall, but it seems I remember I had to have the machine moving in order to calibrate it? Many Thanks, Craig
First question. Does the SERV CODE icon light up for every one of those 4 Codes.? If the answer is YES then you need some recalibration done. This will be related to the change/reprogramming of the ECM and the current ECM will have no valid calibrations.
I do not have my manuals handy and admittingly a bit ignorant with this. There is a red light to the left of the key not in the image that is about the size of a half dollar which is flashing and the two indicator lights above the display are on. I don't know how to tell if the lights are for every code or a particular code, but they don't ever turn off. I plan to go back down to the TrackLoader shortly as I have the batteries charging via a generator, although they were not dead or overly low, just part of what I do every month. While I am there I can check for more details as I am not sure how to know if the SERV CODE lights up for every code or just some. Also, and I hate to ask, but which light is the SERV CODE light? I suspect the one to the left of the key not in this image? Thanks again, Craig
I found the calibration section in my manuals and made a copy and will go back and calibrate it and follow back up afterwards. I suspect no calibration is why it isn't moving vs my thought that there would be a default calibration of some sort to start with that would at least allow the machine to move anyway, but perhaps not. ~CB
It’s in the upper RH corner of the window where the Codes appear. It’s actually illuminated in your photo if you look closely.
A newly flashed ECM will have no calibration at all in it. That’s why I suspect all 4 Codes are probably Active. Certainly the 299-13 which is the position sensor on the F-N-R lever will cause the loader not to move.
Many Thanks. You were correct and once I calibrated it for the pedals and F-N-R it was able to move again. It was a little bit jerky when turning which I suspect is because I need to add more hydraulic fluid which I plan to do tomorrow, so I didn't go far, just ~30 feet and circled back. Also, all the warning lights are off now except for the one still on the left side of the display image (as in the image I shared earlier today) which I suspect is the hydraulic temp light, along with the hydraulic temp gauge being pegged out, both of which I suspect are regarding the 030 600FO8 code and the tank sensor or wiring. Once I fill it with fluid, I can drive it to my shop and check everything better as it has been sitting for a few years now. Thanks again Nige for all of your help and information! ~CB
BTW, I will add that it is very hard to read the codes now, maybe it was always dim or my eyesight is failing as I get older. In any case, the display seems to be dimmer than it used to be, not that I can't read it though just that it is hard to see. Is there any way you know of to adjust the brightness on the digital display where the hours are and the codes are read? Perhaps the new ECM is related to the dimmer display? No worries though, just thought I would ask. ~CB
Not AFAIK.
Well done for getting it running again. This makes me break out in a cold sweat. Waiting until you have jerky hydraulics is NOT a good strategy for monitoring oil level.
I agree that one shouldn't monitor the fluid level by waiting until the hydraulics are jerky. That isn't what I did either as I added ~8 gallons (all I had) and I wanted to see if the machine would move with the new ECM, and I need to go purchase some more. One thing I am not completely understanding (or two things) is that any jerking would be from the transmission and I checked the transmission splitter box dipstick which has its own fluid (?), and fill hose and it was full. I didn't drive far enough to see if the machine would smooth out, it was only a bit jerky when I turned it around otherwise fairly smooth moving forward and in reverse. I suspect there could be air in the system from sitting for so long, in any case my thought is that it may smooth out once I fill the hydraulic tank and run the machine longer as I only ran it for a few minutes knowing the front hydraulic tank was not full (not empty either). Also, when I parked it years ago there were no leaks causing the large hydraulic tank up front to go low, and wherever that leak is what I suspect could be a hose. Now at least I can get under it and inspect it all better. I doubt the leak is a high pressure hydraulic hose as the tank goes lower with the fluid level with time just sitting and not running. Just a couple other observations, the track loader sank in the ground about 8"~12" over the years so it is good I could move it as that will make it easier to get underneath it to find the leak although I hope to get it to my shop where the ground is very firm. Second, the radio inside lights up but doesn't play, it smells burned (hard to tell but I noticed when I took its detachable faceplate off) like it may have got damaged as well as the ECM and as I think about it, there was (removed now) a tree nearby that I believe got struck by lightning around the time the starter had gone out and was waiting to be replaced, and I wonder now if the lightning may have jumped from the tree to the loader as the ECM did have burn marks on the board inside. Not that I will ever know I suppose.