OK, I have a 955K. 85J4318. The brakes are near the end of adjustment. Seems to run good. No real issues. So, I am not scared of putting in the brake bands/ pads. I will check steering clutches while in there (duh). Anything else I should do? When operating, when I apply a brake, should pressure (speed) increase to other track? Or is that on new hydro stuff? Are there o rings to check/ springs to check, pressures to check? Again, it runs ok, but that doesn't mean when it is all apart that I don't want to fix any issues. Thanks Wags Plus, while tanks, etc are off this would be a great time to steam clean, and paint all the stuff to make it 40 year old pretty. HA
When I had the belly pan off, I went ahead and heli-coiled the holes that were stripped, antiseized them, etc. I just want to do stuff right. Wags
Do it once and do it right and be done with it is how i go about things. Seems if i cut 1 corner it haunts me for life... So i dont. And in the long run its cheaper to do it right.
Talked to a guy to get it hauled from the property to the house (shop). Probably will have it here this week. I am not trying to make it new.... just pretty good for old. HA I will keep you all posted if anyone is interested. Wags So, when I remove the main gear assembly, (I assume it has to come out to replace the brake/ band?), will I have to reset gear backlash, or do I just drop it back in place?
Oh, and is this undercarriage the same as a dozer... D4 or something... so I could search more info? Thanks Wags
Brake's can be replaced (if my memory serve's me here) with out taking the belly out of the beast, Should be able to replace them thru the brake access cover. They should be a two piece shoe thats bolted together. Some one with better memory step in here please. Gramps
Oh, that would be AWESOME! There really don't seem to be any issue with this machine. Brake almost out of adjustment on the right side. I think it tossed 1 shoe off the band. I had them adjusted equal, then one day it got tight, then way free pedal. Takes a couple minutes to move when cold. This could be filter screen. Also could be 30 wt oil for lube. It needs some more helicoils, couple gauges, etc. Nothing major. I have the gauges. I resealed the leaking cyls. UC is decent to pretty decent. It could use the pins turned, but for what I do, not worth it. I don't use it 50 hours a year. That would same me a bunch of work. Wags
Bands one piece mate; gotta pull it clutches with bevel gear !!
That is what I thought. Was hoping not. Oh well... Thanks Wags
Be sure to take lots of pic's, luck digital can't be developed backwards. It will help you get the bevel gear back on the proper side of the pinion. Pay close attention to the release bearings, their cages and the yoke pins/screws. If you change the bearings be sure to install them the right way. Thrust sides back into the cage and up against the nut. Otherwise they will pull apart. Later Bob
wagspe208, If I may ask,Did U get new break band assem, or just lining & rivets,and if so were they EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE ? THANKS
I have not orderd them yet. I will just get the linings and rivets. I "hear" they are less than 100 a side. (will order when I get them out) American Crane and Tractor has good prices on cat aftermarket stuff. They have quality from autozone junk to pretty damn good. I bought my cylinder seal kits, bushings, etc from them. I was searching and was surpirsed how cheap they were. I am just a hobby use guy, so no need for cat brand. Wags
Thanks 4 info, Please keep update if U put new break bands on , Iam going 2 replace the set in my unit also, when weather breaks a bit.Like 2 here how yours goes! CAT wanted $400 and some change, 4 lining and rivets, $2400 for complete band & lining assem.Cant go that route! Belive Ill check with AC&T 4 prices, as u were saying.THANKS
I am just waiting for + freezing temp to have it moved to the shop (house). I am doing it. I am about 35miles from St. Louis in Waterloo, IL. I see you are in MO Wags
While you are that far and if doing it your self make sure that you check the backlash before you pull cross shaft and set it back to that measurement otherwise it will whine because you disturbed the pattern. Also pull the final drive pioions and reseal them. Hope you don't open a can of worms. Maurice
I guess I have to open up that same can of worms! I too need to install new break bands and clutches.{wagspe208** please keep posted your progress. And pics, it may be a big help if the worms start coming out of the can. And with my luck they probably will. In fact if anyone has a how-to video that would be great! But it's got a be done only thing to do is jump right in and get her done. It would be nice if you could just take it to a Caterpillar dealer and have them do it and bring it back, and that can't happen. Good luck {wagspe208 **
If i buy this 955l i,ve been looking at i,am gonna be doing the same as you fellas. Might as well get it all up to snuff while i,am doing the u/c work. Least this way i know i can depend on it when i need it for the rest of my life no more than i,ll use it and if its in top shape it should be easyer to sell when i,am done with it. Make sure you fellas keep all paper work and pictures for documentation. Just my thoughts bob
Mine comes home tomorrow. So, I bet I beat you guys to ripping it apart. Fuel tank, batt box, hyd. tank, will be off by Sunday night (hopefully) Wags
Is this the pinion between the final and the trans, or the pinion to the outer drive actually? Thanks Wags
The bevel gear and pinion is what you need to adjust, move bevel gear side to side and check in 4 places. Tooth patern is changed by moving the pinion in and out, you don't touch this. Later Bob
I don't think you need to mess with bevel gear an pinion to do the clutches an brake bands. In fact if you haven't set up bearing pre-load and backlash before it's probly best you don't open that can of worms. Take all the bolts out of each side of the clutch flanges. Slide them together off of flanges and pull them straight up. The clutch release yoke just slips out of a cup in the bottom of the case. It is 2 big assemblies each side of bevel gear. You can jack the machine on the track to slowly move it so the clutches slow roll to remove then reinstall bolts. Make sure the yoke goes back in the cup when installing. Also make sure you have the band turned the right way before installing clutch! I have done this and it is a bad day when the band won't pin up and you have to remove all the bolts and pull the clucth...then reinstall again! It is a long process but it gets done every day somewhere! But if all this was working fine and you don't see any obvious problems to address just do the bands. After you clean it all up and reassemble....it will be alot easier to tear down years down the road if something else goes wrong in there. The only good things to do while the clutch is out is to check the brake release yoke bearing and to take a measurement of the discs of the clutch. If it is under measurement then you will want to rebuild the clutches when they are out. This too is a big job. To rebuild these you have to press the flanges on and off with special tooling to get the proper tonage, and to release the keepers in the springs an install takes other special tooling. Alot of mechanic shops has these tools but not many owner operators that i know of do. When you get that far for a measurement let me know an i will look it up for ya. Good luck! Heres a few pics.
Maybe I am off here.... once I remove the big ass cover that covers the bevel gear/ clutches/ bands, I can slide the bands out? (un pin them and pulln them out) Meaning I do not need to physically lift the whole assembly out of the machine? I was under the impression the whole shebang would have to be lifted out for bands.....not so? I, then can check clutch clearance also? without pulling the whole assembly? Sounds simple if that is the case (HA) Thanks Wags
Ah... reread, your post. The clutches/ bands bolt on... not 1 single long ass shaft. Once I see it, I am pretty sure I can do it. I haven't run across anything mechanical I could not fix. I will look at the pics online of the cat parts manual. Their drawings don't seem to be very good. Thanks Wags
The whole assembly is as follows...a clutch, bevel gear assembly(cross shaft), clutch. You can pull whole assembly up then swap bands....but then you have to reset the bearing preload and backlash for ring gear and pinion. If this is not a problem for you then you can do it that way. I do this alot and have the dial indicators, specifications, etc. If you go this route always check the backlash in at least 3 places around the ring gear and pinion. This does not need to be done if everything is running fine and when you have tha big cover off you don't see anything obviously damaged. If i am only changing bands or clutches i never mess with the cross shaft (center section) if it doesn't need it. These parts can run through 4 to 10 sets of brake band changes. The way i am saying to do this task is after you remove that big 'ol cover take all the bolts out each side of clutch flanges (1 side the top pinion, other side cross shaft flange) leave the cross shaft....ring gear assembly in place.
And i just saw that you re-read the post. I don't think you will have any problems pulling the 2 clutch assemblies out. The top pinion flange is as big as the clutch and the cross shaft flange is half the size with half the amount of bolts in it. Just dive in there an you will get it!
Ah... totally get it. Thanks Sounds easy enough. I have set up rear ends, etc, but if I don't have to touch it, no reason to. I am with you on that. Wags
Not so easy, a 955 has a bevelgear shaft that has both clutches pressed onto the ends of it. It all needs to come out together. Later Bob
wagspe208 / Getting ready to order Break Bands and Rivet,.hope U are having GOOD LUCK with your repairs.Iam laying back a little, working on several other things hoping youll post some good INFO on your progress on Break Bands and clucth repairs. Hope all goes WELL!!!
Picking up a 3/4" impact wrench tomorrow. Loader is here. Looked at what it takes. Looks like it will take a while, but not be particularly hard to get down to the bevel gearcase cover anyway. I will yank the fuel tank and battery box. It might be possible to do it without yanking the battery box, but this gives me better access to wash stuff, trans line, pump, filter, etc. Wags Big projects don't scare me. It can only go together 1 way and work... haha
Now, are you sure you are out of adjustment on the bands? I forgot why you are replacing them. Wags
wagspe208, When I pulled out the SUCTION SCREEN, inside the screen had 75% of the BANDS in it.HAHA!! It sure did look like it. Anyway there is no more adjustment 2 speek of on the BANDS, so replacement is needed. Just thought I would ask when you get yours done, if you would like more {PRACTICE** I would be more then glad to let U replace the ones on my unit!!
Wow, that is very nice of you. Does your piece have ROPS or FOPS? If out of adjustmernt... sure, tackle it. I will be on it this week. Wags
Bob/Ont is right on that crossshaft situation. This machine does not have a flange presses onto shaft and then the clutch bolts to it. This clutch hub is pressed directly on the cross shaft. You absolutely have to pull whole assembly. My mistake...sorry. I should have looked at Dissasembly 1st. This is rare to have clutch pressed straight on to shaft...most all machines has a flange pressed on there and the clutch will unbolt from it.
Well, started on the jewel tonight. I started about 4:30, and was showered by 6:15, so not to bad. FOPS off, side guards off, left rear bracket off. You MUST have a 3/4" impact wrench. Well, no must, but you are a damn fool of you don't. A ladder is helpful. Fuel tank will be next. Here is a pic or two. Well, screw me. Need the other computer to modify size. Hold please. Wags
wagspe208, Right behind U,sounds like your going good.Your right on about the 3/4 impact ,it gets the job done without a lot of strain, and U can still injoy the work.Tugging on large wenches, is no fun anymore! Let the AIR do the "TUGGING". Good Luck!!!
Let's see if this works. Had to resize images. Wags
be sure you take the little oil line in front of housing off . while you have assembly out measure clutch packs for amount of life left inspect bevel shaft bearings and races. allso check final drive oil levels if the final drive pinion seals are leaking the steering oil will go into final drives but you will need a press to get the final drive pinion flanges off if you do have to do this go ahead and pull the final pinions out and look at them thats what wears the worst in the finals when you get it back together be sure and check your steering and brake linkage rods for proper lengths then get it on a hill and work the pedals while on the hill in gear the first pedal travel should dissengage the clutches before the brakes evan start to come in and machine should roll . if not it will be hard to steer and wear the brakes back out and crystalize the drums. when an old k model is adjusted correctly its a sweat running machine
wagspe208, Have not heard anything from you, hope all is going well with B bands. Iam going slow with this weather, found some other issues with my unit, radiator needs to be pulled and boiled out.But Iam getting along slowly.almost have everthing cleared out of the way for B bands. Hopefully with some fair temperatures repairs can move a bit faster.Good Luck with yours! View attachment 99266
Weather brought me to a stand still too. I as running around all weekend, and rain and suckeed this week. I am just about to where you are. Did you pull the battery box, or just fuel tank? Wags Oh, that cross shaft in the way (fuel tank mount) looks like it comes out by removing the 4 bolts on each side. Probably be a little easier.
OK, so there is no way in hell I would have found the bevel gearcase suction screen. It was buried in 2" of muck. The trans filter looks good?? (this is the large one, right?) Note the bevel gearcase screen... has some debris on the inside. What really concerns me is the white teflon piece. This was wadded up INSIDE the filter. I assume it is a seal of some sort, or o-ring backer. So, this piece is sluggish to dead when cold. Trans does not move. I will replace o-rings on suction side of everything. Other places to look when apart? Thanks Wags
magnetic filter is trans and you should have another under the pedals and floorboards thats a throwaway for the trans but your magnetic filter looks good there all ways a little hairy like yours and ive seen the little steering strainer a lot worse allso you have a steering filter on top of the steering box there in your picture that piece of white stuff must be something foreign because the trans oil and steering oil are seperate oils and i dont remember any seals like that in the steering compartment but there some seals like that in the trans clutchpacs but there again there seperate by the way you didnt have to take the battery box off just the long panel under it but it does make it easer to get to and clean
Thanks Hatch... I thought I could do the deal with the battery box on. But, as you can see the thing has not been washed in years. So, ***. I'm 2/3 there so might as well clean it all up. So, any suggestions as to why it is sluggish when cold? It won't move unless I go to full throttle, then shift forward reverse a couple times. After it warms up, it runs its balls off. I will check trans pressure upon reassembly. I was hoping to see something obvious. I assume it has to be a trans problem?? If a bevel gearcase issue, it would not steer once moving, right? Not releasing the steering clutch packs? Wags
Another thought... the trans filter and gearcase filter are the same size. Is it possible I mixed them up and put the trans filter in gearcase and vice versa? Would it matter? Wags
dont remember were they the same #
you know while you got that side off it would make it real easy to pull that trans and steering pumps off "their piggy back pumps" and open them up for a peek there just gear pumps and it sounds like that trans pump might be starting to go thats why your having problems when you start up and that pumps not wanting to pickup oil
The "955L" filter numbers are the same for both.
I think a k and L took the same filters but cant remember on the last L 13x ser#s when they put the filters over in the side. never did like the newer 955s as much after cat hung the pedals from up top just never steered as good even after cat came out with the different adjustments but it did make it easier to work on
I think that is the right move. A couple lines, a couple bolts. I will wash so I can see parts. THEN yank the pump and look at it. Then onto the brake bands/ clutches. Thanks I assume... if these pumps are scarred up they are low on flow. If not scarred, up....well, will cross that bridge if/ when I get to it. Are the pumps "piggy backed".. meaning trans and gear pump bolted together? Wags
yes they are and you can pick them up pretty cheap after market
wagspe208, Looks like your coming along very well despite the weather.Iam plugging along also, definitely a good move to check the TRANS & STEERING pumps. I belive I will just replace the ones on this unit while I have access. Ill post more PICS as I can. And yes I did remove the battery box. Wanted to make it as easy access as possible.Good Luck!!!
It appears I will need to remove the pedal mount. The filter housing needs to come off, then the pump is held on by 3 bolts. I see the in and out line from the bevel gearcase to the pump. (the most rear section) I don't see any trans lines. Is it mounted and sealed against the front? I see the line into the filter housing from the bottom. Maybe more cleaning. I sure as hell hope I don't have to pull the main hyd. pump to get it off. it looks like a big, heavy **. Just removing and installing the lines looks like a **. Wags
Oh, nothing but washing tonight. Washed until I got cold. I could proceed with the gearcase disassembly at this point. It is pretty damn clean. A soak with detergent and another pressure washing and it will be good. Wags
yes passages are made into pump and housing and no you dont have to pull hyd pump
dont have to remove pedal crossmember to get to any of this and forgot to mention that trans pump has a back bolt thats kinda hid and a pita to get in and out but dont forget it
Thanks for the tip Hatch. I MAY pull the pedal assembly as the center pedal is sticky. It has to be pulled up. At this point I am only 6 bolts from it coming out. Free up, clean, lube. Before I am finished this thing will be a set of tracks. HAHA Wags
Here we go. A pic. I assume I remove bolts "A" bolted to the steering clutch hub, then remove bearing caps, and assembly lifts out? Todd... pretty easy to get apart. Note the rod ends "B". There is a clevis pin that goes thorough these with a cotter pin on the bottom. These MUST be removed to lift the bottom assembly. Wags
Here is a pic of something. Note the wear on side "B" as opposed to side "A". Also, the yellow lever "A and B" have some slop in them. B is the worst. I assume there is a bushing in the arm? I would probalay replace it if it makes 2 hoots in hell. I am waiting on a parts manual to get part numbers. 80 bucks, but probably worth it if I can actually see the pics. Wags
OK, final pic of the evening. Here is a pic of the gearcase obviously. The pinion has some slop on it. If I remember cat gives a spec for forward and aft movement. This one is probably in excess of .030". The wear pattern on pinion is worn more at the transmission side... meaning it is running into ring gear to hard. SO.... fix it? and replace seal? It appears as the pinion slides onto the splined shaft coming from the transmission. The assembly has bolts on the trans side and the gearcase side. I assume I set preleoad with these, or shims. SO????? Do it? Or F it? I am this far. I will check backlash as instructed earlier. I will check it in 3 places.... and write it on the ring gear. SO... this begs the question... do I set it back up to spec? Or to what it is currently if NOT to spec? I will wait for tips to rip anything else apart. I won't remove the gear assy for a couple days. Supposed to rain tomorrow. Thanks Wags
The hubs (A bolts) need to be pushed about a 1/4" towards the outside of the machine to clear a lip. I would also check the backlash before pulling to get a reference but that's just me. The unit weighs 420 lbs. I have never done this job, just reading the book.
Wags, .001 to .007 on the pinion movement and there is no way to adjust it other than replace the 2 tapered roller bearings on the pinion shaft. The clearance I gave is for a new unit and there is no mention of when it should be replaced. The whole pinion assembly is adjusted with shims along with the 2 locking nuts on your bevel shaft to set the gears up.
push the brake hubs toward the center to get paast flanges take locks off bearing blocks and backoff bearing adjusters so there not holding tension when lifting out and you need the extra clearance so you dont chip gear teeth take sperical rod end out and lift with chain or cable in those holes but with the longest legs that you can work with because those pieces set in a ball pivot on the bottem and the more your trying to squeze the top in it makes it harder getting them out and a pain putting every thing back in and to get them back in their holes there are two square plates on top of the filter housing cover that you take off to adjust a and b swivel feet and yes those other pieces will have a little play ive allways set the back lash to speck but check in 4 places and set to speck at tightes point you will set this with the brake hub bolts out so you can turn everything and not have to do it with a bottle jack under the tracks if pinion is sloppy you will have to fix it or its going to start shucking teeth one of these days did you ever check the final drive oil levels to see if they were over full?? are we having fun yet haha take care Randy
It honestly isn't to bad of a job so far. I was never afraid of big projects. Now, that being said... it isn't all the way apart yet and it still has to go together. I'm a pretty sharp mechanic.... but I am always looking for pointers on stuff I am not familiar with. Thanks a ton. Wags
I really don’t think it matters if you replace the pinion bearings or not considering the use your machine will see. That being said, I might replace them if it were my machine but more for stupid anal reasons and being half way there. Because of wear, I would blue the teeth both in the current and proper setup before making my final decision. If you don’t replace the pinion bearings or mess with the shims I would suggest that you pull the pinion towards the rear of the machine and set the backlash to .005-.008 clearance.
OW... good suggestion to check pattern before ripping apart. So, the seal that separates trans oil from gearcase oil... is this between the pinion roller bearings? Or in the rear of the trans case? IF I rip the pinion out... hell, what is another few bucks for a seal. Hatch, I have not checked final drive oil level. However, after the piece was underwater, I checked the fluid, it wass all clean and good. I will check again. I bet I DON'T tackle that project. Hatch, these levers that ride on the booster valve ends are not so critical? See the wear on B vs A. And the slop is no big deal? Thanks for the tips guys. Rrained tonight. I had other stuff to work on (make some cash to pay for cat parts).
is the play comparible to the other side ?? the wear on the foot print can be adjusted out by going thru the square covers after the top is. on the reason i asked if the finals were over full is the final drive pinion seals behind the hubs on each side if they start leaking will over fill the finals with steering oil.
The only seal is in a groove on the male splines that go into the transmission shaft. There must be transmission oil inside of the female splines? If you decide to change the bearings the outer race on the forward roller bearing will most likely be stuck in the housing. CAT shows removing it with a puller with the 3 fingers facing outwards to get behind the race. Must have been a lot of forward right turns or reverse left turns with all of the wear on the one side of the linkage.
right handed operator allways prefers right foot if theres a choice haha
Yeah, my right brake is weak and spongy feeling compared to the left. Maybe I can equal things out a bit being left handed.
Interestingly enough... the left pivot arm is the sloppy one. The one marked A. The right one, with the most wear on the pad is pretty decent. I was surprised to find that. I will be back to tearing up crap on Saturday. Thanks Wags
maybe thes might help you know what they say pictures worth alot
wagspe208, Looks like it,s all coming together for you,Iam not as far as you are but getting there slow but sure.Will be on it this weekend, working on radiator, need to remove it and make repairs. nice PIC,s . Looks like you have the unit cleaned up well to work on it.that just makes it all easier.Good luck!!!!!
wagspe208, Do your break bands resembled these? And what condition are these compared to yours?
wagspe208, No rest for the wicked, come on let's getter done!! I'm not quite as far as you might think, I would like to try to find out how much percentage is still on these liners!
Should be easy to find out. Pinion ok, seals ok? Wags Rip out those steering clutches. Let's see em.
Well, I found nothing on thickness. We know for sure when you hit rivets they are done. When you are out of adjustment, they are done. How far are you from the rivets? Wags
wagspe208, Anyway 2 get in contact with u.
PMed you my number. Wags
What I learned today: 1) The backlash between pinion and ring gear, measured at pinion is .020" 2) The pinion movement (forward and back) towards and away from transmisson is also .020 ish. 3) The pin in the left bearing cap, that aligns in the slot in the bearing holder was not in position. Meaning the pin was hitting the bearing holder, NOT in the slot. This may have caused issues?? 4) The brake shoes look pretty good. I'd like to know new thickness to make a decision. 5) forgot to check final drive oil level. Will check that. 6) Not a bunch of muck in the bottom of the gearcase. Someone has been in this thing obivously. SO.... I will fix pinion slop. If it takes bearings, so be it. I will set up backlash to spec and check pattern. I will measure steering clutch pack dimension to see where it is wear wise. I see cat says 3.310" +- .040" Anything else? Thanks Wags
Well, brake thickness is .250 to .350 ish. Steering clutch pack thickness is 3.155 to 3.165 ish. So, damn good. F me. But good. SO>>>> fix pinion and throw it back together, or new brakes since it is apart. Pinion is showing a couple spots of tooth damage. Wags
I had to go back to the start of your thread to see what your original problem was LOL. Did you find a different reason that the brakes appeared to be near the end of adjustment? I notice that Hatch's image shows 3.422 for the clutch thickness. My book for the "L" shows 3.310 or 3.180 depending on part number. You are probably in the best position to make the call on the pinion. Are you thinking about replacing the pinion gear?
Wags, I'd touch the spots on the tooth with a die grinder, just the edge of the spot-not much though, so that there is not much tooth contact at the edge of spot to help slow the flacking. (used to work OK when I worked for a Cat dealer). Maurice
Toddcat955L, Are you sure you need to pull the radiator? If it is just getting hot there are other reasons for that, worn fan, alternator, and crankshaft pulleys, and also oil cooler. I have seen pull radiators and have them cleaned and even replaced and still have the same problem. The water comes from the water pump throught the oil cooler then into the engine block, so if the water side of the oil cooler get debree across it the block can't get enough water to keep it cool. Maurice
OW... oops, I knew I would do that. I am obviously dislexic. 3.355 to 3.365... doop! I KNEW I would post that wrong. OK, so from the beginning... I was running this piece after I had it for a couple weeks. I had adjusted the brake bands. Several uses later the right brake started dragging. It let loose, (with a "pop") and my pedal was much lower. I talked to a cat buddy of mine and he said it probably threw a brake pad section. OK, that makes sense. So, fast forward to now... I think??? one of the tabs that rides in the brake band to apply the brake? (make sense) was not in place properly. When I first got the machine the right brake was all the way to the floor....so possible that tab was out of place when I adjusted. AND... I was looking at adjusmtent backwards. On the right side.... the "problem side" I had 2x the threads showing as the left side "the good side". So, most likely I am just an inexperienced tool that took his crap all apart for almost nothing. (but I did find the pinion and bearing pin deal) SO.... Wags
I will take a couple pics of the pinion and ring gear. Ring gear shows a few spots, I don't think it is a huge deal. Pinion obviously wears more. It is worse. Maybe just a fix slop in it (for my limited use) Wags
Yeah....that cap pin couldn't be good. CAT cautions about getting it aligned with the bearing housing when installing the bevel shaft. One part I still don't understand. If you don't replace the brake pads does that mean you will still have 2X the thread showing on the right side adjuster?
I don't believe so. It probably would be pretty close. Before I yanked it apart, the pedals were different. They may be close. Wags
I have to think about stuff for a while. I think I need to fix the pinion... especially given the wear. I will price bands and see if it is worth it. I will yank the adjuster screws out and measure total travel vs where I am now and make that decision. For my use... probably now worth it. Then on to painting a little, and throw that back together, then on to pumps... Wags
Here are pics of the pinion. When I pulled the pinion out, a race, or bushing stuck on the front end of it. (trans end) It is extremely similar to a cam bearing. I assume it is supposed to be press fit into the trans output shaft. I also see why there is no adjustment of pinion end play. I assume the 2 bearings and 2 races and spacer come as a set. Wags
Hi wagspe208 , It looks like the some wear on the upper side may be from a bearing wear or just hard work over time, is the pinon and housing one item?? sam.
if your just using it around the farm it will last along time but its not going to get any better for sure and dont touch any of that with a die grinder when they were saying that they were talking about chips on the edges or end of teeth.
Wags, it's a spacer that is pressed onto the pinion shaft but I don't understand its purpose as it's just there and doesn't look like it touches anything in the trans shaft. It doesn't look like it needs to be removed to change out the bearings. Yes, bearings and race spacer bought as a set.
On second thought, the spacer might help with side thrust?
Wags, According to Cat's parts book 85J1-85J4671 dated 12/78 the bearing assembly is 3K3036, and the o-ring seal on the shaft is 5K5959 for a pinion number 5K5818. These number will most likely change but this will give you a start. my NPR is down right now so I can't look up to see if they change and to what. Good luck
wow, great help... So, the "bearing or bushing" that is in the end of the trans shaft/ trans end of the pinion is ok, just toss it back in? I can see where it would help to substantially stableize the pinion. The pinion tapered roller bearings are pretty close together to control the twisting motion that must be in the pinion. The guy that worked on it last time obviously wasn't very slick. Nothing seemed to be torqued. Looser than what I would have expected. So, you guys say the pinion will be ok for my use... I'll run it. Replace bearings, set up gears properly... and go. Sound good? Thanks tons. Wags
The flange you see is separate. The ord)er is pinion, flange, race, roller bearing, spacer, roller bearing, race. Wags
Wags, the bearing in there is two tapered roller bearings back to back and when you install the new ones they will be loose until you torque them and that will set the preload, that is why they come in a set. I looked in the service manual and it does not give a spec for the pinion bolts, but if they are 1/2" size bolt using a 3/4" wrench or socket I usually torque them to 85 ft/lbs. And by the way they are suppose to have locks on them P/N 3H6237 LOCK ---quanity 2 (not a good speller, can't you tell) Maurice PS you have the order right
The spacer, as they call it, should be a press fit onto the pinion shaft. Heat to max. of 275F when installing it and the tapered roller bearings. If the spacer is loose it looks like it could fall off the shaft and just jiggle around inside of the transmission splines. If there are any straight line wear marks in the spacer I would replace it. I don't know what to say about your pinion gear as I have no heavy equipment experience. It looks bad but OMG the price would probably cause heart failure. :laugh
It seems odd to me but there doesn't seem to be any preload on these bearings. The end play spec for a new bearing set is .001-.007 which would mean preload is not possible.
I'm mistaken then, I didn,t read the book close enough, that bearing comes as a set for that reason. I would guess the reason there is .001-.007 end play is because of the different kind of metals used there and when they get warm they expand at different rates causing the looseness to tighten up. Dad had a 66 IH dump trk with a three speed aux transmission that kept shelling out the lower shaft bearings about twice a year, and after taking it back to the truck dealer I did it for him and the book called for a .003 preload which you would think would mean take the end play out and the remove .003 of shim, but I did just the opposite, I took all the free play out and the add .003 of shim. Ran quite and that was the last bearing replacement, The shaft grew more that the case.
That makes sense. I would have probably loaded it too much also because of their wording.
O&W read those steering specks of yours again on the later 955s they changed how to read the specks your 3.310 speck is read across the outside of tooth to the outside of tooth the earlier speck was from outside of lining to outside of lining but dont feel bad ive seen some dam good cat mechanics make that same mistake
Thanks for clarifying that. I brought those dimensions up to make sure Wags was getting the correct information for his K model. The pic is too small to see where it is measured from in the images that you posted but I can see the 3.422 dimension. In post 81 Wags mentioned 3.310 so I was thinking that someone from Cat was giving him L information because I noticed that is the dimension in my L book.
they both come out to the same thing just have you measuring 2 differnent ways either way will work on either machine
I talked with the local heavy equipment junkyard today. He wanted 300 for a used pinion. I balked... he said how about 275. I said....hmmmm. Look like bearings are only 130 ish list. My cat parts manual showed up today. It is for a 955L. ****ING DEALER. I told them it was a 955K and gave serial number. *** Wags
try some aftermarket prices you might be suprised at the price
How is your project going Wags?
Interesting you ask. I just ordered a "good" used pinion, new bearings, shims, and seals Thursday. A local guy actually. So, parts should be in this week. I had to ponder it somewhat. I will run the bands and steering clutches as they are in good shape in hindsight. I have an engine that has to leave the shop by Sat, so that is first priority. Then back to high lift. I figure, "good" pinion, new bearings and clutches, properly adust crap and this will outlast my little 50 hours a year of use. I will keep you all posted. Wags
Well, an update since last post. Pinion is here, as are bearings. My dog had cancer and I had to have him killed April 1, then on April 5, my shop burned down. So a little busy with other stuff. I will press the bearings on the pinion, and start back together this week. I am almost done with cleanup, need to start tear down now. Wags
Sorry to hear about your misfortunes Wags.
sorry to hear about your dog and shop
OK, back on it. I pressed new bearings on the "good used" pinon today. Replaced the o ring seal and 2 backer rings. Bolted the assembly in place. I put the same shim stack in between the race holder as I took out. I will surely verify pinion depth in the ring gear. Pinion is SOLID in the race holder now. No slop, wobble, etc. Play is non existant. I'm happy with the snugness of it for lack of a better term. I am sure it will loosen a little with running, as all tapered bearing assys do. To remove the most forward race from the race housing was a little tricky. I did not have the cat tool to get it out. I heated it up with a torch cherry red plus a little in a space about 1" or less wide. When it cooled, the race shrank enough to tap out easy enough. Bolted in the race holder. Used the pinion plate bolts to pull in the races. Tapped a little on a block of wood/ hammer against the pinion to be sure all is seated. Ready to toss in the ring gear/ steering clutch/ band assy. Wags
Sounds like you got it going your way
wagspe208-- PICs- PICs - PICs sounds like your having great progress !
Ironic thing is I had it moved to the house so I could work on it with shop tools. Well, post fire, I am using mostly service van tools. Oh, well. Still more convenient at the shop with everything available if needed (and cleaned). I will get a couple pics. Good place to take them. Can see some stuff now. Wags
That sucks Wags. Where was your machine before? Any ideas on what caused the fire?
A pic or two. I had the pinion in over the weekned, or last week. Tonight I threw in the bevel gear/ clutch/ brake assembly. I used my tractor bucket to lower in in place. Sort of a PITA by myself. 2 people it would have been pretty quick. I snugged up the spanner nuts that load the tapered roller bearings for the assembly. A big ass set of channel locks works ok to tighten the nuts. A big ass spanner wrench would have been a little easier. But, a poor man has poor ways. I made sure the slots in the bearing holders aligned with the pins in the bearing caps. Got close and said enough for tonight. Tomorrow I will set backlash and check pattern. I HOPE I am ok with pinion depth. I threw in the same amount of shims as I removed. Have to start somewhere. Wags
Oh, when tossing in the gear assembly... be damn sure the yoke ball boes into the ball thing in the bottom of the case. It would be a bad day if you had to rip it all back apart. Wags
yes was just going to say what wagspe said Also rotate the bevel gear assembly a dozen times while doing the preload so the rollers actually 'seat' too. I always set the backlash up somewhere near where it should be while doing the preloads then set it right afterwards. and yes same amount of pinion shims is always a good starting point. Hope you resealed the final drive pinion flanges while you where in there, as is only another half days work
Good tip to rotate the bevel gear assembly a few times. I spent most of the week chasing broads and drinking. LOL... So, tomorrow, I will check backlash. I did NOT do the pinion flanges. I thought some special tool was required to pull the pinon flanges off the splines??? I can always go back alittle bit. Not like I am tons ahead anyway. Wags
Hiya wags Well yeah shelias and beer has got to be waaaay more fun than machinery; but same old scene teets tyres and tracks, they all cost ya money :drinkup yes you need a 20 ton hyd puller [have used a bolt tho] to pull off the flange and same to push back on to 15 ton. suppose bottom line here is if your final drive oil levels were,nt 'growing' your ok, seals not leaking. Just when your that 'deep' into machinery bowels it pays to cover all bases; just my 10 cents worth anyway. cheers from kiwiland merv :drinkup
Nice job and nice pics! I also have to replace the brakes to my 955.... Also the left brake stacks when it is pushed
Well, steering clutch assembly in place. Lash is .007 to .008ish, so plenty good. Patternn is, well, ok I think. I had to remove 2 shims to get it here. It was really heavy at the toe when I threw it in. Wags
So, bevel gear, steering clutch, brake assembly all back together. Just add oil and it is ready to test. Let's toss around this trans thing real quick before I throw it all back together..... So, trans seems like it doesn't want to prime..... after it picks up oil, runs fine.. I don't believe its down on power, etc.(it will turn the tracks while pushed up against a tree, etc) So, is it possible I have an air leak on the inlet side... cold oil, wants to draw air instead of oil? I dont' remember it doing this before I put it under water. Winter, so freeze cracking something on the inlet side of the pump is possible. From the parts manual it looks like fluid enters the pickup tube from the bottom of the trans, travels through the screen filter to the pump, then through pump etc. Is there any check valve in the system? Meaning to keep the screen filter from draining down when shut off? I will yank off the belly pan again (as I am washing, etc) and can remove the tube from trans to filter, inspect for cracks, etc. Anything else? Obviously I can yank the pump.... but since after it primes it seems to be ok..... I want to (want really bad) exclude the pump. Wags
sounds like your on track its either sucking air or the pump is getting just enough wear that it doesn't want to pick up and yes a worn pump acts like this, not wanting to pickup and when it does it works ok. try replacing the orings on the strainer top and on the lines
Ah, so worn may be my issue also. And, since I am no real operator, I still may be down on power to tracks, but just don't know better? I am replacing all the sealing o rings as I go. I didi that on the steering clutch lines/ and gaskets. Cheap, and I hate **** leaking all over. Wags
As long as the clutches are not slipping and the tracks spin against a solid object it doesn't much matter.
the pump can be worn enough that it doesn't like to pick up oil but once it does it will have enough pressure to keep the clutches from slipping but remember while its waiting to pick up oil the lube system is waiting allso
Well, I started up the piece yesterday. I ran it briefly... no tank on yet, no fwd/ rev controls, so just operated them by hand at the trans. It primed and moved pretty quick.... I could actually hear air sucking around the filter area (for the trans), so O-rings on order. I believe (hopefully) that the combo of 30wt oil, in the colder months, and leaking o rings that is my issue. I will know in a week or so. Wags
I finally got back to this old dog yesterday. I orderd all the o-rings for the filter assembly to trans, and trans pick up tube to filter housing. maybe 10 ish. BINGO! I will throw it back together and start tearing up stuff. Wags
This thing RUNS ITS BALLS OFF! Pinion... not making noise (yay) Trans immediately starts moving,... (slow when cold, but I'd assume this is normal.... I also don't go past 1/4 throttle till it gets a little engine temp) Steers... turns... runs... YAY Thanks for the help! Hydraulics may be a little weak, but I'll start another thread. Wags
Good to hear! :drinkup
Don't you just love it when a plan comes together ......??
Good deal now you can go play and mama will quit shaking her head every time she walks by it