Been about a new since I picked up new tracks and sprockets for the 955L, must be time to start Need to clean this up some more but it may not be reusable Looks like my manual has a 955K chain procedure and not an L. If I remember correctly, after cleaning up the spring piston sleeves I need to put something in the sprocket and back it up. The steel pipe should compress the spring so I can tighten up the nut on to the spring. Once compressed enough and tension has been placed back on the nut and spring can move. Then compress the idler back in the piston allowing grease to come out, then it can be unbolted
More pics Dang just noticed I posted in wrong area
Honestly I would not worry about the manual procedure. You springs are already broken and as such just torch them in place. Start cutting links till there is no spring pressure at all. From there I would try and take the nut off. If spring is all cut up then taking nut off is no biggie and its far easier to do while in the machine so the pilot and rod can be held by machine while you are torquing it off. It may take some heat to get the nuts off. Then go ahead and remove tensioner. I would just go ahead and split the track first thing and don't worry about idler being forward. Your gona need the room to get the tensioner assembly out anyhow. Your springs being already broken make the whole procedure a bunch easier and quicker.
Thanks, I was thinking about cutting it up last night. The one side piston sleeve is corroded up pretty bad, so its starting to look like it will not be reusable. The other one looks a bit better but not much. If I have to replace them both then maybe no need even try to save them
They look pretty well shot to me. I would replace them. I bet there is a good chance your gona need to replace the rods in the springs also. they get pretty chewed up on the ends. if they are chewed where they treads are gone id replace those to. aftermarket parts arent that bad price wise. it does take a bit of shopping to get the best deals. I usually price shop from a few sources. It is amazing how they all have some things cheaper than the others and I buy from them all to get everything at a cost I like. #1 Cat dealer. gives me a baseline and honestly sometimes cat classic wins out if no shipping is added. Always ask if they can send it slow boat no shipping charge #2 E-bay is really sweet if they offer free shipping #3 USI undercarraige specialties Inc in oklahoma city. 405-232-0290 #4 vtrack 844-488-7225 #5 HE parts distribution 800-438-2699 #6 American crane and tractor 800-999-8538 #7 a web site called (find it parts) also once in a while hits a deal for me. http://www.finditparts.com/?srcid=CH...mpaign=BR_|_US I have bought from every one of them.
Appreciate it, I do look around but there is a couple here I haven't noticed before
Any body know the specs on the idlers for the D5 under carriage?
What info exactly are you looking for..?
Like to find out if there worn to much and need replaced. To me they look good, and I don't use it much and will try to sell it once done, but going this far might as well know if they need replaced
Where in Kentucky are you?
Close to the southern border and about in the middle
Put something like a 12"-long straight edge across the centre of the idler from side to side. Measure the distance from the bottom of the straight edge to the idler tread (where the track links run) in a few places and take the average. A new idler measures 0.78", a 100% worn one measures 1.28", and a 120% worn one (destruction limit) measures 1.48".
Appreciate it, just measured and while the chains and sprocket teeth are shot, the idlers are all just about right at 7/8, front idler included. Actually the front is a bit less then 7/8 closer to 3/4. Shoes are worn down pretty well, only see about a 1/8 or slightly better air gap. The new bolts will probably make that disappear
Whats your plan on compressing the springs to re assemble the tensioners?
Going to take it to CAT and let them do the spring. Discussed last year with service manager, cost just appears to keep going up, Just tried to removed some pads and my 3/4 impact isn't budging them, appears going to be a lot of torching going on
How much are they talking about hitting you for that? Shouldnt be but 3 hrs shop time at the most. Usually anything on heavy equipment takes a one inch air hammer and a good air suppy. After that is gas ax time.
I don't remember but thought it was about 3 hours, and that included remove, clean and replace spring using my old stuff. If I bring/buy stuff to/from them my guess would be less hours. Looks like 1 inch and my cheap Harbor Freight 3/4 on a 1/2 ID line just isn't doing it. Probably cheaper to use gas over a new 1 inch impact and socket but sure going to save some time with impact.
Anyone ever rebuild the Cylinders? From what I can find it should be easy enough, and no harder then a hydraulic cylinder. Figuring if I cut the spring off enough to relieve all tension, then just disassemble and rebuild. Might be cheaper to get good used, don't know what do you think
To press up a recoil is fairly straight forward the limiting thing is often shop press travel limits as you need a good bit of travel to press things home in 1 hit, around 6" minimum will do most recoils, there was someone who posted pictures of their home made set up using spare bits of junk to do a great job on their recoils, The latest CAT tooling for field installing has 3 long rods and a cylinder to tackle them, I still use the older 2 rod setup that works fine, the spring loading seems the same after the spring has been pressed down around the first 2" it will be no more than 20 ton loading, if you tackle it yourself you need to study the nut fixing detail. tctractors
Thanks for the input, sorry for the confusion I should have explained a bit further. I don't want to put the new spring back on. My thought was to cut the old spring enough to release all tension. Then remove the nut off the back and remove the spring off the rod. Once all this is done I can disassemble the piston assembly. I could rebuild it and when done take it to CAT and have them install a new spring.
I think Nitelite rebuilt the hydraulic tensioner cylinders on his 951. Try checking out his thread.
rebuilding them is really a breeze. just take it apart and it will all become very obvious. the seals you will need are really very reasonably priced and is simple as dirt to remove the piston from the cylinder and replace the seals. The only hard part may be is if your cylinders are stuck in the pilot bores. That and cleaning up all the grease. you may want to replace the cylinders if they are pitted up on the inside or the chrome on the outside is in bad shape. Oh btw you dont need to dissassemble the spring to rebuild the piston. just pull the cylinder out of the pilot bore. you will find there is only one o-ring between pilot bore and the cylinder. this o-ring really does nothing but keep dirt and crud out of the pilot. all the sealing for the pressure side of the piston is on the inside of the cylinder.
Forgot all about nitelite and paid his thread a visit, the first couple pages helped in breaking the track pads loose. This was a big help for me. He did rebuild the hydraulic cylinders, but didn't see any rebuild of the tensioner assembly but still looking (50 sum pages). I'm also start leaning toward getting new shoes, figure these really are worn out. Do all this breaking pads loose, replacing bolts then have a problem because the pads are worn out also. The part numbers I find are 6K1910, new number 1758553 and classic 373690. Guess need to look around and see what it might cost. Probably be ahead of the game to just replace the 41 shoes also
I changed the track adjusters on my 977L 14x2022, the undercarriage is about 40% remaining. I did not cage the spring as it was in good shape and had plenty of room. After removing the track guard tin: 1) removed 3 track pads, split the tract at the alligator link. 2) rolled/pulled the idler forward 3) unbolted the cylinder and replaced it, if is rusted don't waste your time replacing the seals only. You will just get to do it over again because it will leak. 4) replaced the seals, coat them with grease to aid re-assembly. 5)pull/push the idler back into position, guide it over the new seals. 6) reassemble the track and adjust tension. Total time, including coffee, 3.0 hours for two men
Thanks workshop, I was figuring it was fairly easy, didn't see anything which caused me to look twice. Figure I'll go that route and see what parts I need after getting it taken down. BTW, been looking at your threads and your have it taken down big time
This sounds real easy, do you have a thread were you show how the cylinder was removed? I do plan to remove the whole thing because I have to in order to fix other things
here are some pictures of my home made spring compressor. first pic is spring compressed to first stage and resetting jack and screwing out to get more stroke. second is with the spring at finished compressed length.
Nice work, also remember seeing this on a previous thread. Have been hurt before with a smaller spring but strong spring before, and while can probably do it, I just as soon let others do it for me on this job. Man do I ever need a forklift with pneumatic tires
Post pics as you go and keep us updated. Its always fun to see the work progress.
On my 977L it just unbolts from the idler yoke, 4 bolts simple.
Try this thread as well when it comes to tensioners/recoil mechanisms ..... HeavyEquipmentForums
The total time included coffee.
Beer! I do my wrenching in the afternoon lol!
Will do, we all like a good picture show Mine appears to be done the same way. Need to find some shoes for the machine (41 each side 6K1910), starting to lean toward putting a lot more money in the machine. When done with this one the undercarriage should be as close to 100% as possible. Sure hope I don't have any problems with the final drives or tranny. The machine has been real strong since I fixed the pedal return issue.
what was the pedal return issue?
Mine is in the first ones to come off the line as the L model. At the time they didn't have grease fittings at the pedal pivot point. I would use my toe to bring the pedal back but still sometimes it just wouldn't right. One day I took it all apart, greased it up and now there is no issues, pulls like it should. That friction was keeping the clutches from fully engaging at times
Just wondering cause I had to do the same thing to mine. I also had to do the same thing to the bucket control levers. Why they didnt put grease zerks there is beyond me. Mine was made in 78 so it wasent just the early ones. The bucket control lever I had to make a new shaft. Cat wanted $280 and only one left was in Australia.
Try Nitelite's thread (again). I'm fairly sure he replaced shoes and got them from Offroad Equip. If it wasn't him it was posibly the other long thread on the Track Loader section.
Will do thanks
Picked up shoes and springs from USI, will be here in 3 days After I get the springs apart I'll see what needs to be replaced. My thought for removing the tracks now, is just ox axe the chain behind the front idler and lay it forward on the ground. Pull the rest of the track off the back. Once I get the shoes, put them on and lay the track in front and drive on. Then back up and do it on the other side
Another idea, I placed the master link up front on purpose, so I'll just cut the heads off the bolts and separate that way. No since in trying to save the shoes, have new ones coming
Just curious, what do the shoes and bolts run ??
It depends on where and who you get them. The shoes are 17.30 each (need 82) coming out of California, and shipping is 600. I'm going to USI and get them for 20.20 each. As for the bolts (about 220 regular and 8 for master link) I could look them up, bought them last year along with chains and sprocket segments. They all came up to around 4500 I think, just don't remember. Got them thru CAT and while I paid tax there was no shipping
Took quite a bit of cutting before the spring was loose After cutting the master shoe off it might have been easier to just cut the chain. I'll give it a go and let you know how it comes out
Are you going back with 2 bar or 3 bar grousers? What is or who is USI? They local around here in KY?
Going back to 3 bar, this way I can cross the road without putting tires, boards or other stuff down. USI is Undercarriage Specialist Inc out of Oklahoma, workshoprat92 gave me their info Their web site is USIparts.com
Got one loose, unable to get the dowel pin out so I just moved it to the side, who knows maybe this is what I should do to get it out
Judicious application of heat to the stop...?
No didn't use heat, reckon I should have. I get to try it again on the other side, maybe I'll do better. Still don't have the chain off, probably going to have to cut to make it easier. Also need to back the idler up, thinking I can use the bucket to raise the front of the loader a bit up and use my terramite to push it back some. Loaned my backhoe out, (hope to get it back soon) or I could probably just push it back with it
It's a shame you've cut the master link bolts, a towing pin in the top side of sprocket and back up a hair would have brought the idler back toute de suite.
The issue I ran into is my 3/4 impact wouldn't budge the bolts. Did find out the bolts are 24mm and not 15/16, they fit much better.
You'd really need a 1" impact with a really good air supply to make it efficient. The 5/8" diameter bolts are actually 15/16" heads but they will be worn down a tad by now. The usual method was to use a socket broached 1/64" or 1/32" undersize on them, but in your case 24mm will do just as well.
Remove the spring and with a lot of heat removed the nut Now I have another mess to fix, in hind sight maybe I should have just left it alone. Applied heat, got it glowing red and used a small crow bar and giggled it, it snapped off. This should be a hardened pin, what do you think to use to drill it out?
You know there are a lot of 24mm bolts holding the stuff on, idler, spring piston to idler arm, spring retainer and end bolt on end of spring. Maybe when who ever replaced the tracks the last time changed them up. Maybe an over seas thing, my new bolts are 24mm, go figure
Well she came apart, figure I'll back it up some and hope I have enough to loose the track off the back, then bring it back forward. Is there any chance the idler will roll off the end? That would be a bummer
Probably did it the hard way but its off
Get it all back together and send it to Washington Co , I'll use it to load topsoil. Fill it up if you don't mind.
Nothing 24mm on that Chariot its all UNC but 24mm = 15/16" try 6 sided sockets for better fit, why did you cut the Track through?? tctractors
Washington County, that is closer to where use to go from time to time, Bardstown. I need a lot more fill, even take top soil. Now if you want to buy it I'll be selling it, unless something changes my mind later. You know did some more checking, all sockets are impact 6 point. The 24mm and 15/16 both fit the new bolts, do remember something about my metric set was said to be a loose fitting metric set, if there is such a think. I cut the chain because I couldn't get the bolts removed, and one of the bolt heads broke off a while back. This is my first time doing this stuff and I know I'm doing things the hard way but have been posting my plan and have not heard if it was correct method or not. Currently need to get the dowel pin removed from the spring retainer, don't know if I should drill it or can it be driven into the frame? Going to take the lift the front of the loader up and see if I can push the idler back a bit for now. Will be doing one side at a time hope to learn what not to do on this side
The dowel will drill or can be beaten through the frame, you can make a new 1 by the use of a shanked bolt with the thread bit cut off, you only needed to cut 5 coils on the spring to destroy tension, I can see you like the cutting gear, everything you cut is a loss and a cost it might be worth investing in some heavy tooling like 1" drive, don't say anything more about 24mm or metric anything as its all UNC Feet and Inches on these CAT's, finaly at least you are having a go so give yourself a moment of Glory anything you learn is good. tctractors
I appreciate yours and all others in site, as before never done this so don't even know if I'm doing it in the correct order. Thinking of next side I won't remove the spring until after the tracks are removed. Have had my Ox axe outfit for 12 to 15 years, and have yet to run through one large cylinder of gas/oxygen. I just kept cutting until I could use my crow bar and move the spring, those springs give me the willies. The spring on the other side has two breaks already so a little less cutting My impact is removing the sprocket segments What would be the correct method to replace all I'm doing?
For me - fit the new sprocket segments (be sure to use new bolts), pull the idler, refit the recoil spring & mechanism, refit the idler, wrap the new link groups, & finally install the new shoes. Then repeat for the other side. If more than one part of the job is being done by an external contractor - e.g. reassembling the recoil spring mechanism, maybe you can do 2 jobs at the same time.
Sorry for my dumb questions: I can replace the segments (have new bolts) but may not be able to replace all until I can move it far enough to expose the rest. Can I replace as I move the loader forward? Pull the idler - Are your talking the front Idler? If so how do I do that, and once removed what should I have done? Wrap the new link groups - What do I wrap them with? My thought was to take the new chain and install the new shoes on about half to keep weight to the minimum. Then lay it front and drive the loader on to the new, the use the backhoe (got it back today) to pull the chain over and around. Fasten master link and shoe, then install rest of the shoes. Break out the 4 foot torque wrench and start torqueing the track shoe bolts (Plan to use oil on all bolts during assembly)
Yes. You could also move the machine back and forth on the track that is under it right now in order to replace all the segments. I thought you were planning on replacing the front idler. If you aren't then ignore that suggestion. "Wrap" as in "wrap the link groups around the sprocket and the idler" then join them up. That method would work. just make sure you remove the paint from the top surface of the track links and the bottom surface of the track shoes where they mount on the links. If you don't get that paint off before assembly you will never be able to keep the track shoe bolts tight long-term. A drop of light oil on the track shoe bolt threads will certainly help, but don't drown them in oil. For the master link bolts you should use a copper-based anti-seize compound on the bolt threads, on the shank of the bolt, and under the bolt head (or the top of the track shoe where the bolt head sits) before tightening.
Cool thanks much
Your doing a good job man! Some things you just learn as you go and now you know for the other side. Remember all those parts your gona take to the scrap yard you should get short steel price for which is much better price as its already cut up and processed under 3 foot pieces. On getting the front idler forward I used the machine itself with the bucket and a chain to pull it forward. you can do same thing to get it to move back with some blocks. And yes you can pull it clean off the track frame.
Using blocks to move it back, great tip
Been disassembling the spring piston assembly and it has me thinking about the length of the tensioner once put back together. Have heard comments about getting a new bolt, and needing to loosen the nut on the bolt after it is installed by using a pipe in the sprocket. The bolt only has about 1 inch of thread. Question: Does the nut need to be loosened once installed or does the new spring tensioner assembly fit in place and no adjustment is needed?
What happens is the rod wallers around in the end pilot plate and destroys the threads. If you only have 1 inch of threads yours are probably worn beyond use and will require a new rod. There about 45-50 bucks. When the spring is compressed for assembly it is compressed to an installed compressed dimension and the nut is tightened to this dimension to hold it there. This dimension is somewhat smaller than what it will be when released after being installed in the track frame. When it is installed in the track frame the nut is backed of and no tension will be on the nut. The nut is just a way to keep it compressed to a smaller dimension for installation or to tension it back up for removal of tensioner from the spring. Post some pictures of the threaded end of the rod.
In that case I'm pretty sure I need a bolt (5K-6260 not available on line), also be a good idea to replace the cylinder (8M-6676). The cylinder is a bit pitted on the outside and very little on the inside. Could probably hone out the inside and since the outside is just to keep dirt and water out but not sealed tight. Either way sounds like I need a bolt, cylinder and seal kit. I heated the nut up to glowing red to get it to unscrew, threads look good. Got the dowel driven out of the stop, and had to drill out the one on the frame but got it out. The components All the seals and bushings Sleeve, Pilot Assy and bolt. The bolt is a bit fussy, but all the threads are worn out that were there The piston parts Split spring clip, its real thin and need to be easy with it
I am amazed you got the rod off the sleeve. usually they are stuck bigger than shoot. Your right on the money on what you need to replace.
The sleeve was bent a little (from the broken spring), but all I had to do was post drive the bolt against the concrete and hammered it all out.
Man I always have to cut the bolt off. Cat and aftermarket does not make or stock new sleeve so you just make one out of pipe. Making one is probably the cheaper way to go anyhow.
Like to verify torque on shoes and sprocket Shoe showing to values 130 +/- 30 lbft plus additional 120 degrees, and 180 +/- 20 lbft plus 120 degrees Sprocket 130 +/- 30 lbft plus additional 120 degrees
Torque for track shoe bolts (bolt threads lubricated with light oil before assembly) - 180+/-20 ft. lb. on 4 bolts in a diagonal sequence plus 120 degrees in the same sequence. Torque for track master link bolts (require copper-based anti-seize compound on the bolt shank, threads, and under the bolt head) - 220+/-40 ft. lb. plus 180 degrees. Torque for sprocket segment nuts (with bolt threads lubricated with light oil before assembly) - 130+/-20 ft. lb. Start tightening from the centre of the segment and work to both ends. Then tighten 120 degrees in the same sequence.
Thanks much
Sprocket segments on one side done and torqued per spec. Broke my cheap HF 3/4 to 1/2 adapter so went to NAPA and picked up a 3/4 drive 15/16 socket and everything went smooth. Ordered the rest of the parts, waiting for parts to come in now
Removed the other tension spring assembly, and started laying out the chain Sanded paint off chain No paint but sanded bottoms anyway Torqued to 180 then 120 degrees more in an X pattern. Man that is only 12 shoes and I'm beat. The rest of the parts came in today so Need to schedule a visit with CAT to do the spring job
Yair . . . AllDodge I realise you are waiting for parts but man, it is so much easier to fasten plates when the chains are on the machine. Cheers.
I'm sure it is but as before I have never done this before, so I'm looking for insite. My thought was to add enough shoes so I can drive the loader on to it. Once there I was hoping I could use the backhoe to wrap the chain around the front idler and then start adding other shoes. The manual shows someone holding the complete track as it is brought up around the sprocket. Might work that way there is only me doing this so trying on the fly how best to do it. I'm looking for any and all advise to help. Will the loader drive on just chains with no shoes?
Now I understand why you cut the chain (and got scolded for it) in an earlier post.. I don't think it was obvious that you were gonna replace them.. Following your thread with enthousiasm.. (sp??)
Oh ok I understand the comment my self more. I bought the chains and sprocket segments last year, finally getting around to doing the job
Put some more shoes on and made it ready to drive on. Call CAT and they can do the springs in about an hour, just need to find time enough to get out there. Questions: Should I have the springs installed before I try to drive it on the new chains? Does my setup look OK to work?
Another question and I think I know the answer to it. I used my finger to keep the nut from spinning when doing the initial snug up. Some are square others have the corner on the edge. Do I need to loosen and retorque the ones which are not square with the flats?
The nut on the front right side of the photo is good. The one on the front left needs rotating because it isn't sitting correctly in the square of the track link. In a very short space of time it will come loose. Also in the strictest sense of the word the paint should have been removed from the area of the link where the nuts sit before assembly. When you tighten the nuts initially with a rattle gun see if you can't find a big flat screwdriver or similar that you can jam between the nut and the track link so that the nut will sit square in the link every time.
I need to remove the paint also, good grief, the paint was hard enough to remove form the tops. How do the the pros remove the paint where the nut sits? Can you advise on the two questions posed in post 83 Sure is frustrating. Just found out I'm messing two 3 tooth segments. CAT ordered it as a group last year and somehow it's missing 2 of them.
Good quality Cat paint .... removal from that area is either paint remover or a gas axe.
Should I have the new springs installed before I try to drive it on the new chains?
I would. Others might disagree.
Appreciate it, thanks
I used a chisel to keep the square nuts square in the seat. One thing you could consider is taking the rail and pads/bolts to Whayne or to someone that has a track press to have the pads installed. If you have plenty of time and a little help then keep on. I would recommend getting everything ready to put the rails on , the new spring etc , then put the rails on then mount the pads on the tractor. Like Nige said , torching the paint helps things proceed a little faster.
Have plenty of time and no help, so I'll do it. The four foot torque wrench is killing me doing it on the ground. My crappy HF 3/4 impact is doing the 120 degree twist fast enough, but is starting to hang and not work (what do I expect for cheap china crud). At least I only need to redo 20 pads
If you have enough air rent a good air gun or even get a compressor with it. I would still highly suggest getting everything ready and putting the rails on then the pads. If it were dead of winter I'd roll down and give you a hand , but I am backlogged as it is.
Yair . . . AllDodge. I just reread the thread. In answer to question in your #80 post . . . on hard ground a tractor will walk around quite happily on just the chains with no plates, not so much in the mud though. You're getting there and doing a good job, well done. Cheers.
I would take you up on that also, that said I would come your way if needed. Old guy here but still getting around Thanks, I ordered two segments and they are coming in at Whayne supply on Tuesday. Will bring my springs and things down then and have them compress the springs, then install the next day if it works out. Afterwards I'll start on the other side and finish up on the first
Picked up a piece of 2 inch OD 1/4 thick tubing today for Sandusky steel. Cut it in two pieces and will bring it with for assembly tomorrow at CAT Assembled the pistons and took the shrink wrap off the piston sleeves. The sleeves has something on it I'm guessing a coating to keep them from rusting, almost looks like clear lacquer because it a bit hard, but don't think that's what it is. Can scrap it with finger nail, have it soaking in diesel. Anyone know how to get it off?
I think its probobly dried up cosmoline. Any solvent should take it off.
I think your right, diesel wasn't doing it so went to acetone, and it came off. Cleaned them up and installed the pistons. Don't think CAT will need them to install the springs but taking with just in case
New parts are so pretty lol!
Laid the tensioners in place, was really easy if you don't account for the weight. CAT told me he tightened them to spec but they look like there is to much thread showing, and I agree. Sure home I can push the idler back that far .
That looks like too much thread showing for my liking. What is the length of the spring between the inside of the stops on both sides..?
stops 25 3/4 spring length to plates 24 1/2
Just shows how much I know. In fact there's not enough thread ..... the end-to-end length of the spring inside the stops should be 24" dead for installation and then after you have everything installed and hooked up you need to pull the idler back using a pin in the sprocket to take the weight off the nut and let the adjustment out to 24-1/4".
No your probably right distance between stops is 23 dead. My 24 1/2 was to the outside of the stops
At 23" you're well in. So there was too much thread sticking out after all ....... It needs to be let out 1-1/4" once you have it all assembled. Be careful with it. The specified force on the spring is 10 tons when it's backed out to 24-1/4", at 23" it could have something like 15 tons on it.
Will do thanks, I don't have much more room to compress the spring, going t have to watch it close when I use the pin
You only have to get enough weight off the spring with the idler to let you loosen the nut a hair. Once you get the nut moving more than about maybe a half turn it will come easy so long as the thread is in relatively good condition and well-lubricated.
CAT said just loosen the nut up all the way, guess the stops will be holding it in. Just a note; I bought 2 bolts and 2 nuts, but the bolts are coarse thread and the nuts were fine thread. I bought per SIS and the part number from another vendor for 80 cents each, CAT wanted 4.80 each and had a "contact dealer" note. The contact dealer was a change to coarse thread. So while having the springs done, I wound up paying CAT for the 4.80 nuts and carried the fine thread nuts back with me for maybe fishing weights.
Man thats looking real good! You got lucky your guides are good. I had to torch mine off and rebuild the tabs on the pilots to get it all square once again.
Thanks, found out that I didn't need to remove the forward keepers, just turning them a bit out gave me plenty of room to reinstall.
I hope there is an easier way but this is how I did it. Rolled the loader across the new chains Moved on and off the machine several times to get the master link on top. Crow bars, chains from a backhoe, but got it up there. Wrapped the chain around the top with the back hoe and a come-along. Just couldn't get the master link to line up. Even tried to put master on top the sprocket, any way 2 hours later, said self this isn't working Rolled the loader backwards until it rested on a 6x6 and the master link was about in the middle. Used the come-along and crow bars and a 2 lb sledge. Was able to apply enough force to get master ling at the right angle. Put the bolts in and snugged them up. Now to start sanding tops, ox axing holes and installing rest of the pads
I also used my backhoe to pull the chain across the top. mine had all the pads on it so it was a real pain but it would have been real bad without the backhoe LOL.
Plan to do the other side without any pads installed, just chains. Without my backhoe I would be lost, my terramite doesn't have enough backside. Have any pointers on the setup? Don't know if the rear attachment is best with the master link or somewhere else would be better.
Yair . . . Okay fellers I'll poke my nose in . . . others if they like can probably chop it off. (big grin) First off I have had little to do with bolt together masters, I was getting out of the game when they were the new kid on the block. That said they shouldn't be that difficult provided you have an offsider for half an hour, a different kettle of fish if you are working on your own. Here is how I would go about it . . . With the tractor positioned on chain the first thing is make sure your idlers are jacked back as far as they can go. Next, lift the back and the front ends of the chain and support them with baulk at about half height of the idler and sprocket. Back the tractor into the chain and engage the sprocket then slowly drive forward ensuring the track is pulling tight . . . you might have to disengage the opposite clutch to get rid of any slack. As the chain comes over the sprocket stick a small crow-bar through a track link and have your offsider carry the front of the chain onto the support roller and then checking the chain is still fully engaged on the sprocket continue to carry it forward onto the top of th idler. At this stage you may elect to place some timbers to remove the sag between sprocket and support roller/support roller and idler. Continue forward and the link should be joinable just in front of the idler . . . with drive in master pins I always slipped a socket handle through the link and bush and then trundled the tractor back and drove the pin in back at the sprocket, it was easier to align and no "C" frame and blade arm to contend with. Cheers.
Thanks Scrub, appreciate your thoughts. The manual says to do it pretty much like you said. Guess my main issue is doing this by myself, unable to drive the tractor and hold the chain (always said I had long arms but guess not that long). I tried to walk it around the sprocket, and having the pads on the end was making it harder to left. Hope the other side goes a bit easier because I'll leave the pads off. Probably having the chains laying outside for a year wasn't helping my cause. There are a few spots that are stiff, one being half the master link.
Situations like that usually respond well to a judicious application of force from the FBH ..... no self-respecting toolbox should be without one IMHO.
Or a BFH in my neck of the woods
New concern: Open the release on the tensioner and pumped grease in until air appeared to stop coming out. Closed the valve and pumped more grease in. Chain got tight and I gave it another pump or two then there was a slight pop (so to speak). Chain was a bit more loose, so I did it again and the same thing happened. Is that more air being burped out around the seal or (worst case) grease leaking by inside? Don't see any outside
Well just got bit again, looks like the master link uses a different bolt pattern then the rest of the shoes. I installed the old one (one round hole instead of two oval holes)
It was a bit tricky but got it done. Sat the pin in the track and backed at low idle, put it in neutral but couldn't move the nut. Didn't want to leave it in gear unless I had a way to take it back out without getting back on the machine, as a back up wanted to stop it. Tied a nylon cord to the trans shifter and put the 6x6 6 inches behind the track. Checked my string out several times at different angles. It worked, now just need to remove the first pads back off, ox axe and reinstall. That will make one side done Also looks like the bolt is used for different size springs
Just so that we're clear, the measurement of 24-1/4" is the spring length from the inside faces of the 2 yellow plates in your photo on the previous page.
Agree, guess due to wear I'm coming up with 24 3/8
Anyone know a part number for the master shoe? All they show in SIS is 41 shoes, but nothing on a master. Also need to double check torque on master link. In the link below it states 220 +/- 40 for initial torque but this is for a 3/4 bolt, my bolts are 5/8. I have the older D5 track http://www.stowerscat.com/pdf.asp?id=9
As the chains you bought as a replacement were never originally fitted to the 955L there will be no information on them in SIS under the 85J prefix. We'll need to look elsewhere. What Part Number is the Link Group (chain)..? You should find a metal or plastic tag zip-tied to a link that is 3 links away from the Master Link. There are 2 tags on every new Link Group and yes they do get lost but your machine hasn't been in the dirt yet so I would expect at least one of them to still be there. From the information on that tag we can figure out a Master Shoe Part Number. If your bolts are 5/8" diameter then 130 ft.lb. plus 120 degrees is the correct tightening procedure. Remember to put copper anti-seize on the bolt shank, threads, and under the bolt head. Do you know what Part Numbers of master link bolts you have..?
The chains are made by ITR (Korea) and I don't remember seeing a tag but will look tomorrow, has gotten dark. The Chains removed were Berg or Berger (something like that). The master shoe of the old chain fits this one. Will advise more tomorrow
Berco?
In that case disregard that, I was thinking Cat chains. What we need now is the Part Number of the Master Link bolts, assuming they are Cat bolts that is.
CAT supplied the chains, sprocket segments and all bolts (master, segments and track) but they came from ITR. The master bolts have 650J and 12.5 marked on the heads and are 3 1/2 long. No tags but here is the labels on the chains
That CR number is a Berco reference.
All finished on the left side except for rechecking adjustments and putting covers on. I'll give it some time incase someone knows the part number for the master shoe I'm looking for, but if all else fails I'll call an undercarriage place to see if they can assist. Recon with a little use my cheap 3/4 impact was able to remove the master shoe bolts on the other side. Put a pin in it, dove up a bit and hit it with my "FBH" and it came right apart. Great tip Nige
Not this is another kick in the teeth, I'm missing a 4 tooth segment. Had to ordered the segment and master pads thru CAT, should be in by Wednesday. And yet another dang road trip for parts
You can still mount the segments you have , leave one old one on and get the rail on and start mounting pads. One thing I have done is join the master on the front idler near the top. Take a iron rod or block of wood to hold it up while pulling the rail across the top roller. The other side looks great. I have ITR on my Komatsu dozer and so far about 700 hrs they are wearing fine , or actually not showing any wear at this point. If you had another set of hands it helps a lot. Luckily I have a neighbor , design engineer , use to play football and likes heavy machinery. He has his own dozer so we help each other in your scenario.
That's a bugger. However while you are there make some enquiries regarding the master shoe. Make a cardboard template of the bolt hole pattern and take it with you along with your existing shoe to demonstrate the difference between the two. I seem to recall Nitelite had a similar experience with his 951 when he replaced the link groups that the bolt hole pattern on the master shoe changed. Also, you say the length of the master link bolts is 3-1/2". If that length doesn't include the head they are Cat Part Number 3P-2274 which is used in track groups for higher series 955L machines 85J prefix. Those tracks are 15" wide double grouser and use 40 regular shoes + 1 master shoe. The Part Number of the master shoe is 9K-9869. It ought to fit your new tracks but because they are not Cat I wouldn't guarantee it 100%. The only difference is that your current shoes are triple grouser not double but I guess if the shoe fits (pardon the pun) you probably won't be too worried......
Did reinstall an old 4 tooth back on for now. Was thinking of trying it on the front idler, have more room and don't have to deal with the sprocket. Only issue is I had a heck of a time getting it around the sprocket by myself last time. Might wind up doing it like the last time. At least this time my hoe has more room to work. They are 3 1/2 not counting the head, the chains came with 4 bolts each per chain. The fella at CAT said the master is double grousers and my old ones were the same. Installed the old one and just torqued to 200 lb ft and no extra for now. Said there is a not to grind the double to the height of the triple, if there isn't much different I might not. Just ticks me off to be shorted that much by ITR (via CAT). Just to late to get any kind of reimbursement.
Unless you have a guy that really cares or is really good at his job this is what you get. Most people don't give a crap anymore. They don't care if you have to make extra trips and really don't want to hear about it. I dealt with this before. One time I called corporate and asked if they still sold undercarriage. The psr called me promptly the next day. I asked the psr if he still worked for them etc. Anyway maybe this will get it squared away.
Sent a message to Whayne and ITR, doubt if anything will happen but I tried
I always got the impression from Whayne , that if you don't have a multi million dollar fleet , they don't get excited when I walk in. I have found the Lexington branch to be the most helpful. They seem to help the small guy with getting info etc you need. I read somewhere on here about a u/c place in Western KY that just opened up recently. Can't think of the name or location. I thought I had an idler going out on my 39 Thursday , I called and priced it through Brandeis . 900 for aftermarket and 1600 for oem. That's nuts considering what it is. KY Equipment and engineering in Louisville does a lot of undercarriage as well.
I've had good luck with Whayne so far, other then this last go round, agree the folks with the multi million fleet get more attention. They gave me a POC a few years ago and this is why I have the cell phone number of a guy to call direct. I ordered the master pads and sprockets from Whayne due to their service and ready info. Pretty sure I could have called USI or tractor and got a better price, but my POC has been Jonny on the spot wit all questions. Got the other side chains and pads all on today, friend stop by and gave me a hand for a couple hours. Have about 12 shoes to torque and I'm done except for parts to change out. I have a bit of slack on the left side (first side I did) but the right side is fully retracted and it's kind of tight. Might loosen up after I run it around a bit.
Thought I had enough slack in the right side to remove the master bolts and install my old pad, but as I loosened them up I started to see a gap form. Stopped and put the bolts back in. Noticed the right side has a light bit more space in the spring length, getting close to 24 1/2. Put the pin in the sprocket, backed up and tightened the nut down a tad. Now I have some slack in the chain. Still a bit leery of removing the bolts but going to have to do it to get the new shoe on. Any suggestions on safest place to do it, Idler or sprocket?
I prefer the idler. Take a 6x6 or 4x4 block about 24" long wedge it under a grouser bar to hold up the track from falling down take the come a long and pull from the sprocket to keep the master clamp tight. Make sure to remove all the paint in the master clamp as well. Sounds like you got it whipped.
Ok will do thanks
Should get some more slack once the chains loosen up a bit. This pic shows the chain is real stiff
Picked up the parts and as a parting (pun intended) gift, CAT (Whayne Supply) charged me $53 for handling fee. For that amount of money they could have shipped it to my house.
Sounds about right. Call them up and fuss , they should refund it , argue the point that you picked it up and the parts most likely came on a truck that runs daily anyway.
I'm thinking now the master shoe will need to be cut down, the master is 2 inch the regular is 1 3/8 inch, hell that's 5/8 I have to remove. In hind sight I should have used the old shoe and welded a strip to them. If I leave it without cutting and go across the highway, I'm going to leave a couple deep marks. Would ox axe and then grind be the way to go, or something else?
If you're good with a gas axe and can cut down a chalk line that would be fine. IMO you won't need to grind it if you have a relatively accurate cut.
Take it to your Vo tech school and have it milled off.
Guess I'll find out how good I am. Others do a real nice job, have an auto dark helmet with adjustments but always seems to be to dark to see clearly
That is a good idea, but think my nearest Vo school is some distance away. I'll check with the local welding and fab shop, see what they think
Maybe it's my dodgy eyesight but I only use clear lenses (or very light tint) when running an oxy-acetylene torch. You don't need really dark lenses like you would for arc welding.
Use a guide bar, I'm too shaky to cut a decent line without one. Piece of 3/8 flat bar on edge works well for me.
I've tried good polarized sunglasses and when done, I have the spots in my eyes, just like when I looked at bright light. Decided to take it to the local welding shop and he said it will be done tomorrow.
Why is the Croc' plate a double grouser plate when your other plate groups are triple grouser? tctractors
Appears they are all that way even CAT, don't know if this is just the 955 with D5 tracks or all D5's. Just looking at the holes, the master holes are closer together about 1/4 top to bottom and left to right. By eye balling and measurements, I don't think there would be enough room to get the socket shoulder over the head with a middle grouser and the closer spacing.
The problem was that the old tracks were pin-type master links and so all the shoes were the same. The OP bought croc-style D5 links and the bolt pattern of the master shoe is different so his old master shoe wouldn't fit. The shoe the OP bought is an 8E-4725, I assume the dealer recommended it. In post 133 a couple of pages back I posted that I was 99% certain a 9K-9869 triple grouser shoe from the later 955L and early 953 would fit correctly. If the 8E-4725 fits the croc link correctly then the 9K-9869 would also have fitted. The bolt holes in the 9K-9869 are spot-faced taking away a tad of the grousers in such a way so that a socket can be fitted on the bolt heads.
N/M, lol
Sure wish I would have understood what you were telling me about the 9K-9869 better. I did buy the 8R-4725 because this is what the dealer advised. Wonder if the 9K-9869 would also need to be ground? Just looked in SIS and either I don't know how (my bet is here) to find it using the basic search and part number, or it is under another number
That double bar plate would bother me rotating around as a constantly reminder of something I managed to get wrong, just as a point of interest the 2 bar plates work best on 951 through 977 and are a stronger plate giving better grip on the dig with the same psi loading as the 3 bar plate. tctractors
I remember it being rather common after the alligator links came it to have two bar masters with three bar shoes due to the odd bolt pattern.
This odd plate issue would not be seen in the U.K. that I know of ? tctractors
Now I have a mess and out of ideas. What I should have done was put a pin in the sprocket, tighten up the bolt several turns before I removed the bolts, but no that didn't happen. Trying various options and so far I'm a tooth to far. Any suggestions?
Yair . . . The centre bolt on the recoil (in my experience) should have no bearing on track adjustment . . . it shouldn't be that difficult. Is that idler right back? you only need a bees-****. Cheers.
The chain is stiffer the crap. I wound up removing the come-a-long, put the hoe bucket pushing down on the top side. Then took a chain and binder to pull them close as I could. Wedged the block under the bottom with wedges, good and tight. Removed the binder and used the hoe to get it close enough to start the bolts. One side done, now for the other.
A sound tip for you for any track work you might tackle with clip links in the future is do it on the sprocket with the join in about the 2 O'Clock position with a timber baulk keeping the lower track section up and the master plate clear until you have hooked up the 2 ends and located the bolt holes, I see you are going to use that plate you bought in error, you have two many bits of kit in you way hampering you managing a simple task, the bucket and all the bridal gear is all in the wrong place, get rid of the bucket before it hurts you and get a better (proper) pull lift hooked about 3 to 4 links back from the join link as you have it onto the bucket tilt pin area. tctractors
If it were me I would stop and re set up to do this at the sprocket. advantage of doing it at the sprocket is the pins will help hold it close and it cant get away from you. once the pins and bushing is seated in the sprocket segments your oh so close. and then if you pull on the top of the track it will pull it up tight on the front idler and front idler and spring and all the rest of it will give or roll to take up the slack. As you have it now your working against the sprocket which is non movable and your just stuck there. the sprocket wont give or roll like the idler and tension er will and its got you locked out as it were.
Appreciate the tips (tctractors), my pics started after some hours of trying to get it together. Basically started on the front idler except at the 9 o'clock position. I wedged the block under the bottom then used my come-a-long 4 links back anchored the other end to the bottom tooth of the bucket. The link was free from everything. I plan to do the other side the way I did it first time on the sprocket, was rough but managed to get it. Only issue I'll have is pulling the tract to the rear, Nothing to attach to
Thanks workshoprat92
When I replaced the track adjuster piston and seal on my 977L, I used the following method to align the alligator link. WITH NO TENSION ON THE IDLER 1) Remove the track pads from the links on both sides 2) Loop a cable under the left pin and then under the right pin 3) Pull the two ends together above the center of the alligator link forming a triangle 4) Lift the two ends together, this will pull the two pins together aligning the teeth in the link 5) PUT ONE OLD BOLT through the split link and run it down a few threads to secure the connection, the back it off until FINGER TIGHT 6) Install the pad on the split link first, then the other pads.
I learned my trick at the Jim Hamill School of Heavy Equipment Repair, Welding, Blacksmithing and Political Observations, the S. J. Groves & Sons Co. campus in Woodbridge, NJ
Sounds like an interesting school. I know I enjoyed my time in school for diesel mechanics at a community college and again at colorado areo tech for airplane mechanics. After all is said and done I far more enjoyed the diesel end of it all and the airplane thing has some real odd personailities and real pricks to be honest. I only ever plan to work airplanes on my own stuff and thats all. the commercial end of it can go to hell for all I care. Far better and real people involved with yellow iron and trucks.
If I ever have to do this again (hope I don't) I'll use other methods. The number one is to install the master first. Sure appreciate the ideas, hope the other side goes a lot smoother
Groves was a national heavy highway contractor with the best equipment system I have ever seen, I worked as a mechanic out of Local 825 in NJ, Jim was the equipment manager until Groves quit the industry. He moved to Schiavone and retired as a director. A good friend, a good soul and a mad scientist...
All Done, time for a beer Thanks to all very much for the help. I'll run it a little while to break things in then do some checking. See about finding some more rock guards for it then put it up for sale.
this has been a great and fun thread to read.. AllDodge.. I believe this would help you greatly: get yourself a good 2 stage compressor, and an IR 3/4 gun like this: http://www.ingersollrandproducts.co...tive-impactools/3-4-drive/2145QiMAX-Impactool I have an older one and it will either take those shoe bolts off or destroy them. it will make your life much easier.
Agree, bought the cheap HF impact some time back because I didn't figure I would use it very much. Like all things cheap tools will bite you sooner or later. Do like that IR model and almost bought it before this job was done. Going to need to add a pig tail to the impact wrench connection. All the vibration has caused a large leak around the fitting from wear. Will probably get it and another torch later. A two stage compressor would also be a plus.
You are going to sell the 955?
Yes, tried to sell it before I did the rails and shoes but folks only wanted to give me scrap prices. The machine runs to good for that so I replaced the stuff and will try again. Just want to break even with no labor and other stuff included. Looking at 18K right now, will probably go to 20K once I get the rock guards replaced on right side and fix the sticky pedal on the right. Just need to remove, lube and put back together as I did on the left side