Well new problem now . Our 966G has problems and we now cannot start the machine to road it home . I wish to tow it home rather than muscle it onto the low bed . I followed the procedure for releasing the brake but when I try pull ... one wheel goes one way the other wheel goes the other way . Do I need to unscrew the rod into the brake actuator more or take drive shafts off ? Help would definitely be helpful right now .
First off I would have to wonder what you plan on towing this machine with and how far. You do understand that you will have no brakes or steering with engine off? About the only half safe way to move a machine of that size in my mind would be with two machines of the same or bigger size both with very good brakes, one to pull and one to act as the brakes. Also very good communication between all involved is critical. There are only a handful of guys I would trust for that kind of work! That said you also need to understand the way that brake actuator functions. Inside there is a spring that when no oil pressure is supplied to the inlet fitting the spring pulls in on the shaft pulling on the arm of the parking brake. Once wheels are substantially blocked you need to loosen the jam nut #2 and then turn the shaft as indicated to effectively lengthen the rod to release the tension on the brake arm. Also note that the instructions tell you to have the steering lock in place. Not 100% sure on this machine but if you turn some loaders by outside force such as towing you can do damage to parts of the steering system. Others may have ideas of different ways to do thins but not knowing the people involved I will refrain from giving some suggestions. I don't want to be reading about a fatality from someone not understanding the dangers.
Hello . I would be using our 980H to pull . Bucket inside of Bucket . I tried to swap lines to one steering cylinder like they suggest in the book however the lines are just not long enough . I did crack the lines to both steer cylinder and it weeps fluid now so nothing gets damaged. The machine needs to be pulled out onto the road from a approach to even get to the low bed if I use this . The machine is roughly a mile from the pit . Ideally I would just like to tow it to the pit .
Ken I respect what you say about the safety and and I appreciate you looking out for me . Thanks
If moving with just one machine be sure they are connected so as the 966G can not get free. It would not take much of a grade for it to take off on its own. Be safe and let us know what the no starting problem is.
Thanks Ken will do . I may try fool around with it again on a warmer day . Currently it’s -35 here with a extreme cold advisory. I will try sum up what did happen . The loader was walking from a stockpile site back to the pit when all of a sudden the operator stated that it was like someone turned the key off . The machine of course was on the middle of road and we pushed it off onto a farmers property . With a boost the started goes click click . I did see a bit of carbon matter deposit on the back side of the alternator and before that maybe a month ago one of the positive posts was loose . This cable goes from the one of the batteries and to the inside frame of the loader right next to the starter . My men repaired the cable like I ordered as the previous solder repair came loose and I for sure thought maybe this is why the machine shut down . Still nothing after the cable was repaired I then instructed the men to remove the starter . They could not remove as a personal emergency took place with one of the men . I went out yesterday to yank the starter and now I cannot even get the hood up . I cannot find the override for the cab like the 980s had . A turn valve and hand jack . The weather started to turn nasty and I would like to work under different circumstances so I thought let’s at least get it to the pit . My thought is . Either the alternator failed and draining the battery power and the combination of the loose positive cable acting with the starter mechanism that it has fused either the solenoid or flat spotted the armature. I put new batteries in 2 months ago . The men taking off the starter Said they removed some of the cables and that in order for the power to be activated it needs to complete the loop from batteries to solenoid . I’m somewhat lost in this . Maybe the batteries are just so dead now as I also think there may be a break somewhere in the master switch and if it’s not turned off like I like to do but the men don’t like to do it will eventually drain . I hope this is not too long winded . I will gladly welcome any advice .
Ken just a quick note . I am going to get the batteries and bring them into a warm shop and properly charge them up . One question if you have any ideas .... how do I get that damm hood open so I can yank the starter out . Do you or anyone think that the system has to loop through the starter to get power to lift the hood ?
You can get the hood up manually. If you look on the RH side of the machine at the rear just behind the steps on the bumper/counterweight you'll see a cover plate secured with two bolts. If you fit a socket and an extension through the hole you'll find behind that cover you can engage the lift motor shaft. It won't be quick, I'll warn you now.
Gentlemen I thank you very much for the information. I will let you know what’s what once I tear the starter off and have it tested. I have been reading up on these engines . This is a 3176 engine if I’m reading right . One that I’m not very familiar with . Once I do get it home I wish to pull the pan off . Once I get there I’m sure I will need some help
Thank you Nige thank you Mark250 I know exactly where that plate comes off
So why are you pulling the pan? If the starter stayed engaged and grenaded and possibly drained the batteries that would also make it shutdown the engine. I have seen starter solenoids that don’t kickout due to cold weather. The symptoms are as you described.
Mobiletech . The men who began to pull the starter off but never finished spun the oil filter off to get better access to the starter . They did not like the look of the oil and I did not like the look of the filter once I cut it open . There were some flakes and matter in there . Some the magnet picked up some the magnet never picked up . I’m just not sure how much is acceptable. I have sliced open a few filters on other old filters I have sitting in my used filter bin and there is the odd flake in there too . Once I get the starter off I want to try bar the engine over . Maybe she’s seized right tight and that’s why she died . Just no warning according to the operator. He stated that it was like someone turned the key off . No abnormal sound no smoke etc
Well tried with fresh charged batteries . The starter was tested and was good . No luck . All she does is go click and cannot turn the flywheel . I did manage to bar engine over with crow bar . I went about 5 teeth . Maybe I should have went more . I put a boost on with 980H and when I made the connection you could here the 980 labor and good spark . Do you guys think there could be more electrical problems yet ? I’m just wondering with full batteries and checked starter but with boost it labors the other machine once making connection ! Makes me wonder . Anyways . Even to put on low bed I need to either get that brake released more or pull driveshafts. I would chain the buckets together and the lead loader just pull in reverse. Any suggestions guys !
I talked to my good German friend Klaus , he is a retired cat mechanic ....and he said I may have a definite short somewhere when I described how the boosting machine the 980 hunkered down when I applied the boost . He said to check the alternator and the air conditioning Wiring . If the alternator welded itself together this may be then . He suggested I take wiring off alternator and tape them up and try see if that makes difference. He also told me that electric problems can make a good mechanic look bad and it still does after his 50 years of mechanical.
To move it to a better spot. If the 980 will lift the front end of the 966 with bucket in bucket can you not unbolt the rear drive line from the rear end and tow it backing up or push it like a wheel borrow? You will still have to unlock the rear brakes and chain them together for safety.
Towing a loader using another loader we generally used a bar between the tow pins of the two machines and removed & drained the steering hoses to allow the towed machine to articulate freely and follow the towing machine. This obviously only works on dirt though, because the bucket of the machine you're towing is dragging along the ground.
Can you check how many volts you have at the starter when trying to start?
If it was -35 and the battery's were drained they may have frozen and have internal issues.
Here are some codes I pulled up . I seen a similar set of codes on another post on this forum almost identical to these codes . Nige had a system for the click box etc. Anyways I may have a CAT tech coming today ...just maybe . I appreciate all / any information. J
I don't see anything on that list that ought to stop it running - apart from maybe the oil pressure sensor. Troubleshooting procedure attached.
Thank you Nige . I will have a look at these later J
That's only the troubleshooting procedure for the oil pressure sensor, not the rest of the Codes you have.
Ok thank you Sir .
Quite honestly the only one i can believe might cause your engine not to start is the oil pressure issue, and TBH I'm not even 100% sure that would stop it from starting. However if you fix the Code on the oil pressure sensor (that's provided it's Active) and the engine still won't start then IMHO the lack of starting is nothing to do with Diagnostic Codes.
Checking the voltage at the starter will give you a logical place to start. This thread is all over the road and both ditches. Either the voltage will drop way too much because of bad batteries, or loose connections. Or the voltage will barely move because the solenoid is not connecting the starter, then you go from there. Would have been better to check voltage before pulling the starter and introducing more uncertainty. The batteries probably needed to be warmed up to have any chance of starting.
The last time I checked the voltage it was 24.8 at the starter . At the batteries . At the master switch etc . I also brought the batteries in to a warm shop and charged and load tested . I took 2 4D batteries out with me the last time I was out there and hooked them in series for 24 volt and they put out 1050CCA a piece . I’m still waiting on the Cat Tech and one more note I would like to share . I ran into another equipment owner that has a the same engine and he has much the same problems . I haven’t talked to him since but he could not figure out why the machine would not turn over with a 24 volt boost . He said he was taking the starter off . The day I seen him I was having my starter tested and it tested good . I will let you guys know what the cat man says once he’s had a chance to do some testing . In the meantime I will do my best to stay out of the ditch on both sides of the road
Do you have a turning tool? I watched a couple of Cat guys mess with a 25K series 992 for 3 days before I showed them the turning tool stowed on the engine and they figured out the engine was seized solid. They changed both starters, all 4 batteries and still did their best to fry the battery cables. The oil filters were full of metal and the oil was 3" overfull and smelled of diesel fuel... Ya think? Oh, I got the job of installing a good used engine.
I should have been more clear. Was the 24.8V with no load? Check the voltage at the starter with someone trying to start it. If that's OK, then check the other side of the solenoid while trying to start it again. The way I see it, you're either going to find the voltage drops a lot because of a bad connection etc, or you're going to find the voltage doesn't move at all because the solenoid isn't connecting, then you figure out if the solenoid is getting it's signal voltage to turn on, or not. If the starter tested good, and the voltage still drops but not too much, then you try to turn the engine over two turns to see what happens.
Well I know that was not the engine I worked on, because the one I came across that had that baring tool with the spacer left the shop with a plain plate over the hole and the barring tool is still in my tool box some 30 years later! Have to wonder how someone would not realize the engine was stuck when they hit the starter. Even missing that I would have bench tested each starter maybe on 12 volts to see if one or both were bad.