My brother in law (Bo) has 99 Pete, 6x4, heavy springs, C15 motor with sleeper and chrome every where. Has taken great care of the truck and had just had the motor rebuilt. Two weeks later some guy comes around the corner and hits him head on. Everybody is OK and the other driver even admitted to the cops that it was his fault. The truck has a busted front axle, steering box, bent hood and others. Estimate to fix the truck is 38K and the insurance wants to total it saying its only worth 45K. I'm not a guy who understands the value but this seems a bit low. Did fin out a new C15 is 45 to 50K
in my area you can buy that truck or equivalent between 30 and 50 thousand the price seems ok but it really depends on what you want to do i personally would look strongly at buying it back and fixing it than replacing it if the motor is good but there are a hundred variables involved in it and it could turn out to cost more to fix it
Appreciate the input, guess the insurance may not be putting the squeeze on him if 50K is the high end. Have seen some listed in that range with over a million miles and no mention of overhaul. Guess it may be the age old issue of, you take care of your truck and all is in great shape, but it still gets measured against the majority of others which may not have had the same attention.
that ultimately is the issue around me you can get a lot of trucks that are from the 90s because they wont meet California emission standards now so it kind of flooded the market. but most trucks of that age have been inframed so its not really a big price changer from what i am seeing occasionally i see one with 50000 or less on an overhaul and it will be a little higher priced than the rest but not considerably
I'm not a trucker so I can't comment on truck value. Is that his insurance, or the at fault other driver's insurance that wants to total it? Either way, their objective is to settle the matter and totaling it at 45 is better than paying 38 to fix it because that 38 could easily turn out way more, and if they total it at 45 they might break even after the salvage value. His best bet is to buy it back for salvage value, getting it for free basically. Then find used parts to put it back together. That's the way it works for cars in my state at least. No fault insurance might change that, don't know.
Buy back will be around ten thousand I would bet because it's a Pete. If it were a Freightliner around four to five. But because it's had a head on collision take a very good look at the frame rails where the cut out for engine bay and rear motor mounts are. Pete's have tendency of bow or kinking the rails there in those types of accidents . Especially right behind the rear spring hangers for the front axle. Factory replacement rails are blanks and around $3,800 each and are 28' foot long. You have to trim new rails for engine bay plus front frame horns and rear trailer tail board. Buying used rails is usually a bad deal and the holes are in the wrong spots. Truck
Will look into and advice Bo all your thoughts. The dealer which did the estimate is also the ones which did the overhaul.
Talked to Bo tonight, and his truck is a bit different. Appears trying to find a 600HP motor in a 290 inch standup sleeper is not easily found. There is a 300 inch one on truck paper for 109K and another guy which has one with only 60K original miles has been offered 200K and did not take it. Think the 600HP is something not easily found
600hp is just a tune away on a C15.
If he is really thinking his truck is a unicorn then tell the insurance company to replace it not just pay him.
While I cant evaluate your truck situation, I know from first hand experience that insurance companies will grossly undervalue your vehicle (or home or barn) in order to get ahead in a total loss situation. This varies by state, but in most states, the ins company must pay you cost of vehicle replacement, plus sales tax plus title fee minus your deductible. They can't negotiate the sales tax or state title fees, they can only negotiate what the vehicle was worth at time of accident. What they will do though, is try to get you to settle on a total number, and work it backwards to reduce the vehicle's value, thus saving them the sales tax. Example: I totalled a well spec'd 2011 F150 last year. They verbally gave me a price of $17,000 over the phone. I wouldn't agree to it over the phone, made him send it in writing. In writing, the truck was valued under $16,000 and the sales tax and title fees brought it up to the $17,000 I was told. I went to my local dealer that sold and serviced my truck. He calculated retail price of my truck to be $20,000 at time of incident. I used this written valuation to negotiate on just the vehicle price. I stopped negotiating a 'total ' number and would only negotiate on what the truck was worth. Thus when it was settled and deductible removed, I walked with a check for $20,000. Not perfect, but the truck wasn't perfect at time of incident either. Make sure all offers are in writing, and review them with a fine tooth comb. Make sure to take your time, and don't be afraid to take a day or two or longer to respond when you counter offer. The insurance company wants to settle as quick as possible because the longer it takes them, the more it costs them in resources and final settlement payout. Get your dealer sales team to help properly assess retail sales value of your rig and always negotiate on vehicle value. FYI: This generally applies to any type of insurance claim. They want to settle quick and fast while you are troubled with emotions and haven't taken the time to properly assess the true value of the insured item.
It still makes a difference who's insurance company you're dealing with, and state law as well.
I doubt if he had his truck insured for 200k. I'm sure the other drivers insurance company, can supoena his insurance company and find out what value your brother in law told his own insurance company, i.e. what he thought the truck was worth. He had to have insurance on it and I'm sure they could get that figure. If he has paperwork on the recent inframe, he might be able to get that $ added on. He could also probably get "rental" rate or loss of revenue out of them for while his truck is unusable. I see guys trying to sell trucks at a certain price, and then want the value of the recent inframe added on, but I think they rarely get that $ back out of the vehicle. If I'm buying a used truck, yes, I care that it had a recent inframe, but it doesn't up the value of the truck by the cost of the inframe. I always figure if you inframe a motor, and spend big $ doing it, you better drive that value out of it, because no one is going to pay you that value. If its that recent, he should have the paperwork on it, and might have a case for that $. The sad truth is, if he wants top dollar for his truck, (and it sounds like he does), he's probably going to have to pay a lawyer to try to get it. The insurance companies have their own lawyers and pay them everyday, and have a lot deeper pockets than I personally do. He may spend a bunch of money on a lawyer, and not come out any further ahead, and have to pay his own lawyer on top of that. Its not fair and its not right, but that's the truth. If he can make the case based on what he's spent on the truck, plus what he gave for it, and show what he has insured it for himself/ or has a bank valuation on it for a loan etc.: I'm afraid just saying "I want $100,000", isn't going to cut it. From a New Yorker cartoon:
Just for kicks, I looked up a couple auction sites for some 379's close to that. I like to look at auction values a little more than what someone's asking price on truck paper, it shows what things are selling for. 2004 379 $54,000 c15 https://www.purplewave.com/auction/170907/item/DB5853 2000, cat power only brought 21k, but it doesn't look too nice https://www.purplewave.com/auction/170504/item/DA6067 Another 2000, cat power, only brought 21,000 https://www.purplewave.com/auction/170531/item/DA6114
1994 that brought 28,000 https://www.purplewave.com/auction/170921/item/DI9863 another '98 that brought 31,000 So what Aziron put a value between 30-50, and the insurance offer of 45, and seeing some auction results, I don't think the insurance company is that out of line. All the auction ones are cat powered, maybe not as much wheelbase/ exactly what he had, but the insurance company can look up the same stuff I just did, and use that as a valuation. He can probably fight to get 50, his paperwork on the inframe might help, but I don't think he's getting a lot more than that. The biggest problem in court may be what he had it insured for himself.
I know very little about insurance (can hardly spell it) but two personal examples: My wife was rear-ended by a concrete truck while she was stopped; that gave her a sore back. The adjuster totaled the older 8-bolt Suburban, but I dithered on settling because the truck was registered out-of-state, they got anxious and eventually paid me almost total for the Suburban and I kept it, then sold it. Same with another, a older Model 80 Landcruiser that had a tree limb fall on it (a comprehensive insurance claim). They wanted to total it, we went round and round and round, then they paid me for damages and let me keep it. A son drives it overseas today. Insurance wanted me to take a salvage title, but I just quit returning their calls, and they dropped that demand. But I didn't make my living with either car, and Bo does with his truck. It's a sticky wicket for Bo. Neill
Didn't know about the sales tax and fees, will advise Bo of the issue. So far as the auction trucks I've found similar prices, but also not to use an auction site to get prices. Most cases auctions are the worn out. BTW, his truck was built in 99 but is considered a 2000 He was on the phone with them 2 1/2 hours and they are going to meet next week to discuss. Says he's going to find ones like his in truck paper.com This on is like his, differences is he has a stand up sleeper and is yellow and has headache rack https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/18525749/1999-peterbilt-379exhd
The insurance company has the vin # only unless he specified all the extras. I'd call that green thing heavily customized and the insurance company doesn't care one bit about custom bits, UNLESS he added it to the contract on the application. It still seems the other guys insurance should be on the hook for this, and you should have more leverage to force them to make it right vs your own insurance company who only has to hold up what's in their contract with you. Again, varies by state and no fault may make me an idiot. I'll also agree, auctions are not the end all for values, more the low end. In used cars the private party value is between the trade in and the retail value, so you won't get retail (dealer lot) price for this, but you shouldn't take auction value either.
I don't know how his insurance policy was written, but mine clearly stated that i was to be reimbursed for replacement value of my vehicle as it was worth at time of incident. That meant a 2011 F-150 equally equipped and adjusted for mileage since that is what I had. They pulled 20 comps to calculate a value from and then adjusted the comps by adding or subtracting my accessories package. All of their comps came from dealer lots so in my case, they were using full retail price for comparison. Only 5 of the 20 comps were final sales, the other 15 were for sale listings. On a side note, they did request, and I provided, any receipts for service work done and the added to my value for proving a service history. So, in your your brothers case, they might do something like look at 20 other 2000 Peterbilts with similar mileage and similar ( not exact) chassis configurations, and then make adjustments up for the differences like the 600hp Cat, the sleeper, different wheel base, etc. All this is dependent on whether or not he had enough coverage. If he understated the value of the truck when he insured it to reduce his premium cost, then he's gonna end up SOL.
Problem is the elogs. They have artificially inflated the value of anything with a '99 and older engine.
Agree, this has some a lot to do with it. True but, the C15 came as 600hp from CAT, the C15NZ is the later model and comes with less HP
His best bargaining chip may be to go after the "at fault" insurance for loss of income. The self admitted guilty party caused his loss of income and may come to the plate. When my BIL wrecked his extra long wheelbase truck (built for hauling long girders) hitting a bull at night that was documented being on the road 9 times previous in sheriffs reports, they had to pay him loss of revenue until the truck got repaired plus the truck repair.
Unfortunately the insurance company isn't going to look at it as rare because of 600 hp. That engine is probably a 6TS series nothing unusual about it just a hp rating. Truck Shop
Not a problem at all if you have, say, a '00 KW with a '99 2WS that you are looking to sell soon. Heh. A guy would probably have to get an Agreed Value policy and pay ridiculous premiums, if you can even do that with commercial vehicles.
Better sell it quick before they change the rules again!
In the future get it appraised and insure it for the stated value. You might have a 25yo truck that has been taken take of and treated right with all the "rare" stuff. Its just another 25yo truck for the insurance co. You can and worth it looking at what your options are to replace it with. Glad some of us took really good care of our simple built mechanical iron.
My policy has a listed value for each crane, forklift, and vehicle (trucks) I own. I set the value. I also cross that list to my banker, so the #'s have to agree with each other, i.e. I can't tell the banker that I have a $100,000 crane and the insurance company that its only a $60,000 crane, to lower my premiums. It might not be that way if you only have one truck and policy. And if its not listed as "extra" value, its not going to get paid to him, they don't care about all the extra fancy, unless you tell them and pay the extra premium. Loss of revenue and the recent inframe paperwork are going to be his best route's, and if he has extra paperwork for the $ he spent making the truck fancy, that would help. I've found with ins. company's, the more paper you shove at the adjuster, the more $ he can justify giving you. If you can't generate paper for them, you're out of luck. Do all offers in writing, nothing said over the phone matters.
https://www.bigiron.com/Lots/1998Peterbilt379ExtendedHoodTATruckTractor-2 Truck Shop
Thanks for looking but Looks about the same but doesn't have same features 475HP and 13 speed, 280 wheel base, standard sleeper, mileage about the same no rebuild 600HP and 18 speed, 290 wheel base, stand up sleeper, fresh rebuild
A feller only needs a 63" flat Top, And if your OTR you don't need an 18sp. If I couldn't get down the road with 475 Hp there's something wrong. JMHO Truck Shop
I'm the wrong guy to answer the question (not a trucker) but Bo hauls in state only in Indiana. His 18 speed is low geared and as I remember, says he doesn't use the first 5 gears unless loaded heavy. Also says the only time he can put it in 18 is when on the interstate doing 70 mph at about 1000 rpm. Has always told me the truck was setup to haul some heavy loads, mentioned springs axle and other things that I didn't pay a lot of attention to. He has been using a rental truck to do business and says it takes him 30 to 40 minutes long to make a run, also uses more fuel. The rental is a Penske with an automatic In any case, he was meeting with the adjuster today and will probably hear more in a few days.
There are a few intangibles here that have not been stated. The first concerns dealing with the at fault driver's insurance. The issue is the limits of that person's insurance. One would think there would be a required minimum for liability but depending on the total amount of the loss, damages to truck, cargo, lost time, potential injury and on and on it might be better to let your own insurance company fight that battle. Your insurance company is usually required to fight your battle for you at their cost anyway. Next item concerns the type of policy. An agreed value policy means you have negotiated the value of the asset and it is specified in the insurance contract. Your asset value is negotiated at $200,000 so the pay out would be $200,000. A stated value policy is usually one where the asset is worth a lot more than market value but allows some coverage without invoking a co-insurance clause. Say your truck is worth $200,000 and is totaled and the stated value is $100,000, the insurance company could pay you the $100,000. With a co-insurance clause found in most all commercial policies a $200,000 asset insured for $100,000 would mean the item is only 50% insured for its market value. In that case since the owner is sharing in the insurance risk. The pay out would only be 50% or in this case $50,000. I am not familiar with the term listed value policy. I'm sure it will be defined in the declarations part of the contract. I would be interested in the definition. Last item concerns the value of the loss. To start, all comparable sales and asking prices must be in the retail market for that type of asset. You might be able to use an auction market value to explain a reason for a retail market comp but that is an appraiser's job, not the insured's. You should never use the auction markets to assign a value for insurance coverage. Doing so will put you at risk of getting caught by the co-insurance clause if you don't have enough value on the asset. All property and casualty insurance contracts I have seen have an appraisal clause. It may be slightly different in some states but essentially says in the event that the parties cannot agree then each will at their own expense, hire an appraiser to provide an opinion of value. If those appraisers cannot agree on a value a third appraiser known as the umpire will be hired and the cost shared by both parties. Agreement by any two appraisers will settle the dispute. I always thought the accident was bad enough to have to work through. In my experience though much of the time it is just as painful to work your way through the negotiation process to get back to your condition before the accident. I wish the claimant good luck!
Thanks for your thoughts Bo met with the appraiser and didn't go away any better. his agent indicated the appraiser is know to be an issue with all claims (probably why the Company keeps her). Not knowing the what was all said, all I know now is it is on going
I'm thinking you mean the adjuster and not the appraiser. The first interprets insurance policies and negotiates claims on behalf of the insurer or the insured. The second represents no one, provides facts and makes an opinion of value available to either of both parties.
Adjusters tend to lean to the insurers wallets, appraisers do as noted make a value based on evaluation of machine.
Just to close the thread, Bo settled for 53K plus time missed and some but not all rental fees. Traded his old one in to the same guy who sold him a 2004 model. The amazing thing is it took this long to settle
Thanks for the update, looks like Aziron called the numbers pretty close when he said 30-50,000. He's probably not thrilled with the settlement, but there's not a real great way to get a lot more. Doesn't make a lot of sense to pay a lawyer to get $5,000 more, and pay the lawyer $3,000. And have it drag out another 3 months. I'm surprised he went up to a 2004 model, instead of pre 2000. Maybe he's close enough to base not to need e-logs, but most guys are trying to avoid it if they can.
Haven't talked one on one about why, but do know he tried out several trucks before going with this one. Could be all he was finding in pre 2000 were junk, don't know. Will be up there on Easter and may get some more info