Afternoon all. I have one of each of the Lift and Tilt rams off. Having trouble being sure wrt a seal kit as the assembly does not match the parts book. The 53H168 is the second to last machine built in Australia for the 53H series. Equivalent machines are 31J - 48H - 51A - 61H As it is one of the later 53H series I suspect that it has different rams to the earlier machines. The Tilt ram in the parts book is drawn with a gland whilst on machine it is ring seals. The pistons are similar as in two sealing rings and a wear ring. The Cat parts book lists for the Lift cylinder: 5.5" bore 32.77" stroke group 5J6342 piston 5J6332 - on machine no stamped visible (have not undone the nut) Rod assembly 5J6340 - on machine rod 5J6339 Head 6J6918 - on machine 6J3989 For the Tilt: 5" bore 23.34" groups 5J6213/5J6214 piston 5J6202 - on machine 5J6202 Rod 5J9395 - on machine 5J6203 Head 5J6201 - on machine 6J9739 Whilst the head (edit: Piston) matches a 61H, and I could perhaps roll the dice on that as a set of seals, I am leaning towards just taking the assembled Rods to the local Hyd shop for nut removal and seals. Not sure there will be any more info on the cylinders on this machine. The parts book I have is the Cat original book published after the build date, so would have thought it was definitive. Apparently not... Using online access to Cat SIS 2.0 - The SIS does not reference the 53H series at all. cheers, Jack
Look for a tag welded to the barrel. If you're lucky it will still have a readable part number for the cylinder.
I think you might battle for "complete cylinder" seal kits because from the information you posted above it appears as though you could have a mish-mash of parts from earlier and later machines, some of which might never have been originally used on a 53H machine. At this point I would suggest that it might pay you to also remove & disassemble the 2nd lift and tilt cylinders from the machine because based on the first ones there is no guarantee that the parts on the other side are either original 53H or identical between the LH & RH sides of the machine. Regarding the Lift Cylinder I can offer you the following for a 5.5" bore, 32.77" stroke cylinder: - 1. In respect of the Head, 6J6918 and 6J3989 are interchangeable. 6J6918 Head used a total of 5 seals instead of the 4 used in the 6J3989. 6J6918 was discontinued prior to the start of 53H production in favour of 6J3989. 2. The appropriate seals for a 6J3989 Head (#10) are 2H9247(#7), 2K2961(#8), 5J3620(#9), & 1K6982(#13). 2. The 5J6339 Rod is from much later machines than yours, mostly late-model 955L machines. The way the 5J6339 Rod is installed on the 7J1727 Piston on a 955L (left illustration) appears to be totally different to the way the original 5J6332 Piston is installed on a 5J6340 Rod (right illustration) in a 5J6342 Cylinder Group. I suggest it might pay you to get the nut and piston off and investigate exactly what type of fit there actually is between the piston on the rod.
Turning our attention to the Tilt Cylinder .......... 1. The 5J6213/5J6214 Tilt Cylinders are currently at Change Level 10. All Groups start at Change Level 00 for first production. The 5J6203 Rod was used in early versions of the cylinders and was replaced later by 5J9395 at Change 05. So you have an early Rod and your paper Parts Manual shows the updated Part Number. 2. The 6J9739 Head was introduced at Change 08, replacing 1K6982 which in turn replaced 5J6201. So based on your installed Part Numbers the seals for the Tilt Cylinder that you disassembled appear to be 1K6982 (#8), 5J0964 (#9), 2K4096 (#10), 5F3144 (#11), 2 x 5J5020 (#12), 4J4630 (#14), and 5J3620 (#16).
Thanks Cmark/Nige. Did not consider the potential mismatch between the two sides. Cannot remove the second Lift cylinder atm as it has is supporting the boom. (lift arm support piece) The nuts have certainly been been off previously, and the last owner had several of these machines, so the mismatch of parts is not a long bow to draw. Will check the barrels today for tags. That was exactly what I have been trying to sort out Nige, but struggling to get my head around. Appreciate it. There will be a delay in getting data on the other side, will sort and refit these cylinders first. A parallel shaft with a tapered piston poses some interesting questions. Will revert. interesting wrt the Rod from a late L. Perhaps that machine was the source for the rear panels with the 955L badging.
The seal Part Numbers listed above are a best estimate based on the Head/Rod/Piston Part Numbers you posted. I don’t have 100% confidence in them but they were the best I could come up with.
Looking at min $600 per rod assembly for the local shop to strip seal and reassemble. Soooo have ordered some 1" gear to break the nuts off. Not sure it will stand up to it, but will see. Have not found a 80mm flogging spanner locally yet. Thinking 8' or so of pipe on the 1" sliding T bar, possibly welding gussets across the center of the T bar for additional strength if required. Availability of the seals from Cat Australia is questionable, but just starting that search.... In a pinch I can reuse the piston seals, the main priority is the head seals, which I am sufficiently confident in thanks to your info Nige. Have located them on SIS for a 61H machine. The 5J6339 Rod with the two seal piston is a conundrum, may roll the dice on the seals for the 5J6332 piston. It seems odd that the piston is not stamped. The only markings on the piston is an 'R' and an 'E' stamped on either side of the face of the piston facing away from the head. Just single letters in isolation. There is the edge of a stamping directly under the nut, but I cannot believe that a part # would be stamped there.... It is interesting that the part number for the 5J6339 rod is stamped on the face of the rod rather than cast. NB: no plates are visible on any of the cylinders. Cylinders are not yet 100% clean however.
Before you loosen the piston retaining nut use a center prick punch on the nut and piston to give you a good idea of how far to tighten the nut back up.
I would suggest centre-punching the end of the rod and the nut because the piston is not keyed on the rod and therefore can be installed anywhere. The relationship between the rod and the nut is fixed for approximately the same torque. That looks very much like a "cylinder rebuilder's stamp". I've not seen an OEM Cat Rod with a Part Number stamped in that location. So I think you might be able to take that Part Number with a pinch of salt as regards being correct. It will be interesting to see what the piston looks like inside when you finally remove it, that will confirm if you have a tapered or parallel end on the rod. You might be lucky and find a number bstamped behind the nut.
That was how I read it actually. nut and rod end..... I am suspecting as you say that it will be a tapered piston. awaiting tools.
Not too concerned now wrt to the seal for the suspect Rod/Piston assembly on the Lift cylinder. Irrespective of the Rod, they both seem to use the same seal for the 5 1/2" bore lift cylinders. Not too surprising I guess. The wear ring/strip is different in the later models as they lengthened it when they went to a single seal arrangement. Will order a pair, with the intent to replace one seal on each side and return to service the wear ring and one of the seals. Thoughts on wear rings? I am tempted to not replace them on the tilt as well, just rotate them 180`. (and replace one of the seals) NB: In the short time I have operated the machine there was no evidence of lift or tilt drift(droop)....
Same piston seals and wear rings for both lift & tilt would be my thoughts.
The seals were the same on mine
Rods are the same - 2.5" - on both Lift and tilt. The cylinder bores are 5.5" for the Lift and 5" for the tilt. There are common seals in the head for both. Am ordering seals from Cat -William Adams- today. Have not had any trouble tracking them down store side. Great service. Pricing is also good, certainly not worth chasing aftermarket. As good or better then the US ebay cat pricing, so impressed there....... Will find out about time frames today, most of the items appear to be either in stock or at one of their other shops. They also have the missing tanks caps I need for this machine. It is certainly encouraging to be able to source parts locally. Have ordered sufficient to replace one of the piston seals on each piston and the rest of the cylinder seals. Will reuse the wear rings and one of the piston seals. Some rod polishing of scratches is required - minor - and the left tilt cylinder has some corrosion on the top of the bore. Will have to see what I can do with that. Does not feel terminal, but will need a clean up.
Lift cylinder dissembled (Left) Tapered Rod Piston 5J6332 +1 to Nige NB: Nut was only lightly torqued. Would suggest that the cylinder was not overhauled in a shop.
The head on the lift cylinder requires an additional seal. arrangement is as per the Tilt cylinder head, with the missing seal from the Lift the same as the extra seal in the Tilt extra seal for the Lift is 5J-0964 will need to order another couple of these prior to doing the right side cylinders.
OK, hold the f'kin bus just a cotton-picking minute.............. I don't see any "correct" way to install a piston with a parallel bore onto a rod with a tapered end. There is going to be daylight between the two either at the inner end, the outer end, or somewhere in the middle. The chances of the piston sitting parallel to the rod (and to the inner bore of the cylinder barrel) are slim to non-existent. See illustrations below for reference. The 5J6332 piston is #4 in the LH picture, the 5J6339 Rod is as shown on the RH one. A couple of thoughts on why the nut was found to be not as tight as it ought to have been. 1. Whoever last bodged this POS together knew they weren't doing the right thing and were frightened to tighten the nut fully for fear of breaking something. Splitting the piston, damaging the rod, whatever....... 2. The nut was correctly tightened but because of the incorrect "fit" between the piston and the rod, operational impacts between the piston and the head have either deformed the piston or stretched the thread on the end of the rod slightly. Unless something has been altered by machining the inside of the piston bore (how about some photos.?) to mate correctly with the rod my preferred solution would be to find a 7J1727 Piston that has the correct tapered internal bore to mate the with tapered end of the 5J6339 Rod. No way would I recommend reassembling the existing parts.
lol. Sorry Nige, perhaps a clearer explanation..... Tapered rod and tapered piston found. Looks like the rod was stamped in error. All fits together just fine, has already been reinstalled. The rod was just fine, looks as original as it could. Not sure you could machine from parallel rod to tapered as the nuts are likely the same size. The piston was to two seal variety (+ wear ring) so happy to call it a 5J6332 (as stamped) with an erroneously stamped rod. Seals fit and slid back in with the expected lip resistance, then smooth. Somewhat exceeded the torque I found the nut at for re-installation - 75kg@8' + a bit of bounce = 2500/3000 Nm ish The loose nut broke at about 75kg on a 3' bar. No bounce. The Tilt piston was somewhat tighter, in the order of 110kg at 6'. Was using an 8' bar, but not all of it. Can post some photo of arrangement once I get my phone back tomorrow, (left it off Island) Broke the nuts with the Rods secured in the Tilt frame point on top of the boom. With the rod laying back along the boom and the tilt cylinder lifted out of the way. Boom more or less parallel to the ground. A bit of dunnage to support the rod just before the eye. Smooth and easy, heaps of control. NB: To be clear: -the 5J6339 rod was the parallel rod from the 955L era.... (my rod is stamped 5J6339, but is a tapered end) -the 5J6332 piston is the tapered piston. (fitted to my machine)
I need to pay more attention. You are correct, which kind of takes me back to an earlier comment that the stamped Part Number was in itself unusual that it was there at all, and not just in that particular location. OK, move along. Nothing to see here ...........