With R-1234YF refrigerant moving into heavy equipment in the near future what's the deal with the tooling? Can I use the same portable recovery unit as R-134a so long as I swap out the filter and use a seperate recovery tank? Or is it advisable to just go and buy another recovery unit? What about the portable vacuum pumps?
As an instructor I’ve been advising our shops and field service to buy completely separate tooling. Maybe a vacuum pump would be ok to share. From the automotive side I’ve heard it’s bad to mix the two refrigerants and oils even if just recovering. CAT is starting phase in R-1234yf this year on some machines and the EPA drop dead date for new R-134a systems is 2028. If you service newer A/C systems/machines you definitely want to get a jump on the game.
I've been told 2028 for most equipment as well. I noticed my 8 year old Ford has that new crap in it already. Most of the stuff I work on still uses R-12......
On a related subject, where can I get a guide or educational material on servicing, troubleshooting and repairing AC systems? With our growing and aging fleet of equipment and trucks, I would greatly appreciate being able to troubleshoot AC systems on the farm instead of having to send them off. Some equipment/trucks have AC, but it doesn't work and the powers to be determined it wasn't worth investigating the issues on the older equipment. I run most of that older equipment and not having AC when it's 90 out sucks.
Look up Red Dot. Most of their catalogs have some basics on how the systems work. They likely have some troubleshooting manuals as well. I have put in some AC systems on my own equipment and keep a set of gauges on my service truck at all times. You can not run a mulcher without AC unless it is well below 40 degrees. The hydraulics manufacture a lot of heat that will leach into the cab.
How difficult is it going to be to get 134a? Going to have to retrofit all the old systems to take the new refrigerant? Every mechanic I've worked with has hated fixing A/C systems. My A/C fixing usually entails a one time recharge shot, and if that doesn't fix it- I'm replacing everything. Of course my a/c stuff is all 15-20 years old by the time I buy it, and if I'm going to the work of fixing it, I only have good results if I replace it all.
I don't mind A/C work. I like it better than a lot of other stuff I could be stuck doing.
For what it's worth. I have heard that R134a is almost a drop in replacement for the expensive R1234yf. Not that I would ever advise somebody to do something so terrible. Think of the cigars the corporate shareholders will not be able to afford.
Me to the ones machine I touch reguarly I converted to 134 with all new everything.
I've heard propane is good for old equipment
That's because you need knowledge to work on A/C systems. There certain steps where you can easily figure out what actually the issue is and not just do swapdiagnoistic.
Well the availability of R-134a is the part they are being a little quiet about but it looks like 2030 will be the drop dead date for R-134a production It has already gone up in costs significantly Most mechanics hate fixing A/C systems because 1) lack of worthwhile training (I had to rewrite our course from scratch to make it worth a damn) 2) stuff like pressures on gauges, temperatures, etc are more of guidelines and not hard and fast rules- there is a lot of wishy washy stuff in A/C. We like absolute numbers/ranges, such as hydraulic pressures. 3) Leak testing SUCKS both in available methods and access to the system 4) access to certain items is ********. The evaporator should be easy to get to and completely remove and it never is.
If I can find any open source stuff I will post it here. I unfortunately cannot send you my work related stuff Automotive A/C stuff, if you find some good videos on youtube, largely works the same as heavy equipment stuff. Main thing for heavy is many machine have the condenser package mounted separately from the engine cooling package with its own electric fans. Also we get a lot more dirt than automotive. The operators who run with the A/C blasting, cab doors and windows open are the ones who clog the evap cores.
I've heard of a department that only refills 1234 with 134. It seems the condensers on their Tahoes are mounted to ridgidly for rough service and crack out at least yearly.
I was going to get adapters to convert the shops R-134a stuff to be used on 1234 stuff but should i just get a new setup ?
The whole reason in the old days that freon was invented etc. is because it was not flammable and safe to use. All this new stuff is similar to propane or ? and is flammable, and can go poof. Even all new in home appliances have the stuff. Shame we can't talk more about the facts involved in this BS.
I know a bloke who went poof. He was never the same again.
R12 and R22 were both great refrigerants. Freon was a Dupont patent. As the patent ran out Dupont and Allied Chemical were the heavy hitters in refrigerants well before the Chinese got into the game. Refrigerants were pretty much commodity items. I can remember in the late 70's paying 79 cents for a 1 pound (12oz) can. Auto parts houses had pallets of it on the floor. Dupont and Allied got greedy and lobbied the EPA claiming how bad the stuff was for the ozone. But, they could develop a new class of refrigerants although it would be costly. Well lo and behold along came 134a and 410 which were not as efficient and operated at higher pressures initially having many failures mostly leaks. Everyone was forced to accept the hoax and the rest is history. Once again the same MO was employed and once again it stuck. The new systems in homes have a hydrocarbon sensor, microprocessor setup that will deactivate the system should the (mildly) flammable refrigerant be detected. Total BS just like EGR valves, DPF and DEF.
You are rambling a little fast for most folks my friend. So Dupont had the patent. Anyone that produced R12 was required to pay royelties to Dupont. Patents are normally 20 or 40 years. When did auto air come out? Majors started playing with it after WW2. When did Dupont convince the world R12 was destroying the world ( atmosphere ) and needed to be replaced? About 38 years later. Who has a product to replace it? Dupont! Now 40 years later we have to change again! This is not my creation and probably twisted a bit from when I heard it but you get the general idea.
Its always been follow the money.
Patents are good for 17 years but a lot of patent holders will apply for different patents before the original runs out to basically extend the patent.
There is a lot of good reference/ study material here. Along with what others have said though these are just guides. Another thing people overlook from time to time is the cooling system. A lot of older equipment has direct drive fans which means any time the engine is turning you are pulling air across the condenser where trucks will have a fan clutch and the newer equipment has either hydraulic or electric fans. I have never actually been taught anything about A/C and most all of my education has been trial and error over the years. Sometimes you just have to break something to figure out how to repair it. It has gotten increasingly difficult though to completely break systems today with relief valves built into compressors and high/low safety switches. AP AIR, INC | Air Conditioning Parts and Supplies Agricultural Air Conditioning, Air Conditioning Parts and Supplies, Condensers, Evaporator, Radiator, Blower, Switches www.apairinc.com
You got it!
Their mechanics who do so are committing felonies and can be personally charged $40k per violation of the Clean Air Act.
Too bad you're not a lot closer. I found two sealed 30lb jugs.
The old R12 stuff all we can do is either convert it over or use the R12 equivalent stuff in the small cans.