China construction machinery has experienced a golden decades, and it increased 10 times after 10 years of rapid development. However, time of challenge is coming. Since 2011, the domestic market has been very sluggish, but overseas market becomes stronger. We have seen the acquisitions of the global giants by the China manufacturers. And foreign brands in China are no long taking the lead. When the domestic demand recovers, we see lots of potential. We may predict a new pattern of the construction machinery industry in the next 5 years, maybe. There is no doubt that China equipments have been branded enough of low quality, and in fact they need to be further improved. China is still lagging behind in R&D ability, but we see hope in the future.
Behind in R&D? No point in that when they can steal designs for others and get a free pass.
China will never produce quality never have never will it is not the way they do business.
I have to agree with the blatant theft of intellectual property that china is absolutely guilty of. Even when faced with indisputable facts the chinese courts have never and assuredly will never penalize their own citizens or companies. You have always stolen designs from the west and will continue to do so until the west simply refuses to allow chinese products into their respective countries at which point the economic boom you have enjoyed the past decade will come to a screaching halt and once again china will slide backwards into a 3rd world country.
LOL when i try to go to the "Lonking" web site my Anti-Virus kicks in and refused to let me enter the web site!!! wonder if they are after my "intellectual property" if so, i feel sorry for them as i don't have ANY intellectual anything LOL
Ah yes, that wasn't happening last week. My AV indicates an "intellectual property" stealing trojan. It could be the chinese have found a new way to infiltrate our minds. I say we inundate their computers with an endless tape of Richard Simmons working out. That'll teach 'em.
!!WARNING!! DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINK "Hydraulic excavator from Lonking" IT CONTAINS AN IMBEDDED TROJAN VIRUS
I've removed the link from lonkinggroup's signature, because you're correct about that. Mine reacted to the viris too.
That was quick digger242j, good to know someone's keeping an eye out for us, I wasn't sure what to do or who to contact, figured a warning would suffice temporarily. Thanks...
Thanks for posting the warning. I Googled the company name, and Google didn't warn of anything malicious on the site, which they usually do. (At least they did when somebody gifted HEF with a viris.) So, I went above and beyond the call of duty and clicked on it myself. Like I said, you were right. Probably wake up tomorrow with a rash and festering boils...
Itellectualism and heavy equipment generally do not go hand-in-hand together. The Chinese have the same problem as manufacturers as the Japanese did. While they can be good technicians where the task is defined, they are usually not good innovators. True, the Chinese invented gunpowder. But the U.S. came up with the M-16, Russia the AK-47.
If I find 'em I'll post a warning. I have a fairly immune computer so I'll take risks without much worry. Hope your morning goes well for you.
You know it's funny you mention that Bluetop Man, since I joined HEF I have been nothing but impressed with the "intellectualism" contained within. As for the chinese, yeah they've got their issues, the biggest is trying to strike a balance between communism and capitalism two ideologies which are not harmonious nor synonymous with each other.
I'm not sure if china doesn't recognize or just dosen't prosecute patent infringement/intellectual property theft. As for not building quality product, that statement is just misinformed. Plenty of high quality items come from china, cheap products come from there too. Until everything you purchase is made and assembled in the USA, can we put this 'anything not made in the USA is crap' argument to bed. Remember the good old days when japanese cars were built for Japan and they were crap, eventually they learned to build a car for the American market and American cars were crap. There are diehard flag wavers that won't admit how crap American cars were. Today you buy a car no matter where it's built and expect it to go for a 200000 mile being almost trouble free. This is possible because of the Japanese car industry. For all those still thinking the US will go it alone, news flash, it's a global economy, embrace it before you become some other countries cheap labor.
I couldn't agree more TEC, it is a world economy and I don't believe in the Made in USA or nothing mantra, I for one prefer European equipment. And yes, the chinese make some good products but they steal their knowledge from others and do not conduct much of their own R&D and why should they if stealing it is more convenient. The US is not capable of going it alone any longer we need each other as nations to prosper but there exists a collective need to produce quality products without stealing technology.
Pills the doc gave ya' last time not working...:beatsme:tong
Let's go back to the thread what did we learn in school that we use today. My answer-History How did the Allies get a big boost in jet and rocket technology? They didn't just take the R&D, they took the people. The British sent the latest and greatest jet engine to the russians and they ended up copying and refining it. Today the Chinese are making copies of Russian jets, they are having trouble copying the engines but they will get it eventually. If companies sit around an let their competitors catch up, whos to blame? You only have to worry when the copy exceeds the original. Tom
Well call me old fashion, but i think Industrial Espionage is a crime, and when they use a "Intellectual Property Trojan" to get something i have on my computer i just wonder how far they will go ????? but thank to my anti-virus program it did'nt work to well for them.
The Chinese are doing the same as the Japanese did to Caterpillar. They buy one and copy. The Japanese haven't been able to quite figure out the steel combination and etc. buts its a wanna-be copy cat on much of their stuff. Take a look at the equipment from the 60's and 70's and settles the arguement.
Wow I figured my post was going to get me a slap on the wrist....:drinkup
Be humble and don't proclaim it from the rooftops Dozerboy.
I am so sorry that there is something wrong with the website, and I am working on it. It seems that someone has attacked our server.
Maybe you should start checking some facts before you continue making such widespread, blanket statements. It's simply not true that Chinese courts have NEVER and NEVER WILL penalize their own people or companies. I'm on my phone, so I don't much feel like spending the time to research a bunch of examples, but they most assuredly ARE out there. Check out Tensar's lawsuit over their Geogrid product. There are also many, many other examples if you were to look.
Just so you know china has jumped on a lot of companys for CAT in china and also if its a chinese design they will enforce if but 99% of the time they really dont care.
Alco, I have looked and I have done the research I also have a Niece who works for the US Department of Justice and specializes in patent infringement cases oddly, most of her time is spent dealing with China's intellectual property theft which by their estimates and statistics is rampant. My statements are NOT widespread or blanket in nature they are what is known to be fact by myself and countless investigators who do what they can to stop it. Although unrelated to heavy equipment and patent infringement but something I deal with on a daily basis as an Electrical/General Contractor....Chinese Drywall. The Chinese government has never once apologized, accepted responsibility or offered any sort of compensation for their use of highly toxic and in some cases radioactive materials in the production of drywall. Where it is supposed to be banned and they claim they have stopped producing it, it is still a problem here in the south. If you do your own research you will find that if a residential structure is affected it usually has to be torn down, if a commercial structure we can usually remove ALL of the drywall and treat. So with all due respect don't tell me what you think you know about the Chinese government and how they do things, they are corrupt and loathe and detest anything to do with the US or west in general. Oh, and the facts about chinese drywall, it is estimated that since the early 90's better than 40% of the homes built in the southern states are affected, it is beyond harmful to the occupants and in some cases fatal. I didn't come here to argue politics or legal issues I came here to get helpful information so I don't make too many mistakes when purchasing new equipment for a new business venture. However, if some of you choose that route I will happily engage. Just an add-on here, I do not now nor will I ever take issue with the Chinese people, only their government.
There are also a lot of western companies who have won lawsuits against Chinese companies in non-Chinese courts and have found the lawsuit to be unenforceable within China - Fact. And a western company taking a Chinese company to court in China has a snowball's chance in hell of winning, unless the Chinese government is trying to encourage said western company to invest within China. I expect Cat started winning about when they started to set up engine, excavator and loading shovel manufacture in China.
Thank you for that ih100, thank you very much. You indeed speak what is FACT! Any western company or entity has zero chance of winning in the Chinese legal system unless it benefits China. Well spoken!
NO TEC, I don't think we can put it to bed because as mentioned above here the chinese are thieves when it comes to engineering and design. I have been there numerous times over they years on equipment installation jobs and have seen their blatent disregard for producing quality steel plate and structural shapes, gray iron and ductile iron castings, sloopy machining, poor quality welding and the list goes on and on. It took the Japanese and Koreans about 20 years to figure the quality thing out. The chinese have been at it for 25 years and don't seem to have a clue yet. Will they ever get it? I am not sure but would be inclined to say no at this point. In the past two years we have been doing a lot of work for companies bringing their production back here from china because of the quality issues. It is not the intension of becoming some other country's cheap labor in the US, instead of being the top quality producer.
The fact of the matter is simple, every year the same US consumer that say that says China does " 'x,y,z" will go out an purchase items from stores that get the bulk of their goods from China. Walmart comes to mind, Chinese manufacturer produce over 50% of the items sold there, and they will bend over backwards to get a larger slice. Living around Detroit, I always get a laugh when I see domestic brand vehicles with high foreign content pulling into a Walmart parking lot with bumper stickers like 'out of a job yet, keep buying foreign' or 'I work for ford, I drive a ford'. At what point do you really want to take a stand, write your government rep. and tell them you will pay more taxes so we can stop borrowing money from China. The USA will not be closing the door on Chinese imports or pressuring their government to do anything. Chinese companies will/have built whatever we want, and build it to whatever standard we demand. I'm going to have to get dictation software for these posts as my typing is slow and I have more to say on this subject. I may have to hire a Chinese secretary as my American wife refuses to waste her time posting on internet forums. Tom
I just don't have much sympathy for a Company that moves it's production to a Country known for stealing trade secrets and disregard for intellectual property rights and then complains when it happens.:cool2 Reminds me of the old fable: A man keeps a pet rattlesnake for years as a pet. One day the snake bites him. On his death bed, he asks the snake why he bit him since all he has done over the years is feed and care for him. The snake replies "You always knew I was a snake".
Communism doesn't recognise an individual's rite to intellectual property, it doesn't recognise anyone's or companies rite to anything everything is the property of the state and "all people are equal, but some are more equal than others".....animal farm........
Okay then, I know it's not my place to say this, but I really think we should all move on from this topic. Let us agree to disagree on how the Chinese do their Chinese thing. Clearly, the discourse of politics is an impassioned subject and not the reason we became members of HEF.
Great book Stock. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from George Orwell.