I have a small excavation, grading, demolition business and have been saving up money to invest in a roll off truck and some containers. Instead of hiring out the cans when I do jobs I can use my own and also sell my services to other contractors. Anyone here in this business? What truck/lift style and equipment do you run? I want capacity for 30yrd cans maybe even 40's Thanks
cable lifts are the most popular so you can find used cans but sometimes it's cheaper to buy new ones
To my understanding hook style lift mechanisms are used on cans 20yrds and under right?
How much are you going to charge for 30s and 40s?
I was partners in a roll off business and we had all hooks. A single axle and two tandems. We had cans from 10 CY to 40 CY and a few packers. Personally I like the hooks over cable hoists especially if you are going to use them in your excavation and demo business. The hook dump angle and no tail like a roll-off make dumping easier and if you want the truck to pull a trailer its much easier for that as well. A hook will be more like a regular dump truck in that respect. A hook can push a container into a space or a loading dock where a cable can't. Of course you can push a can with a hoist on the ground but it's not the same. You can grab a container off center and pull it also. The downside to hooks is most of the larger roll-off outfits run hoists, something to think about if you build the business up and you want to sell it. When we sold our business, the hooks didn't hurt us as they were after the whole package which included self contained packers and front load routes. I've got more info but gotta run, dinner plans.
A while back my dad was telling me about a guy with a small exc business. He had a roll off truck and would put his skid steer and mini exc in a can, pull it on truck and head to the jobsite. Sounded pretty clever to me.
till the DOT catches them & fines them for a unsecured load!!! or its involved in a accident & they want to know where the skidsteer came from!!!
I have tie downs inside my cans. use them for moving small equipment all the time. Small business with 2, 3, 4 yd. cans. Flatbeds, Sanders, and a hydro seeder. up to 6000 lb. First hooklift was in 1992 and it is still working fine. Building a hooklift trailer next.
I would stay away from 40's unless it's for a specific customer who has it on a yearly contract and only loads light materials. It's real easy, no it's extremely easy to overload a 40 with demo or construction debris. 30's will be your most popular for regular C&D customers. You'll need a few 20's for heavy stuff - concrete and asphalt and the occasional customer who doesn't need the larger volume. Our 10's and 15's were only popular with the homeowner business and small remodeling contractors. The money is in the 30's, as far as roll-offs go. We had a CDU (container delivery unit) bed for our single axle hook that could deliver front load cans. In the garbage business the good money is in the commercial front loads and the real money is in residential routes. Roll-offs fall behind these two in profitability. The front loads and residential routes come with a yearly contract and a steady income stream which makes it much easier to project your business plan. Just my $.02 on the garbage industry. Now a landfill is a different league and a different story. If I ever win the lottery, I'm buying a landfill.
A few guys around here do that as well. I plan on doing that with my business instead of pulling the trailer all the time when I do demo. Just gotta weld some D rings in there to some structure and itll be fine. Thanks for all of your input. May I ask why you got out of the business? How many guys did you dedicate to it? Did you rely on your contracts or could you have made it with just call ups? Thanks
It started over drinking a few beers at the beach with a friend of mine. He was talking about buying a few dump trailers and renting them out - having a 3/4 or 1 ton deliver them, customer fills them up then haul. I told him if he was serious look at a single axle hook lift and cans. No individual tags, tires, etc. Well that conversation led to us having a single axle, 2 tandems and a front load truck. We had around 70 roll off boxes, a handful of stationary packers and commercial front loads. At the height of the business we had 4 employees not including us. 3 full and 1 part time. Yearly contracts for the front load containers and roll off packers. The roll off packers were the type at Lowes and other large stores. Of course the roll-off box business comes and goes. It has it seasons where the monthly serviced stuff is constant. We had a few stationary open top roll offs that had yearly contracts but not many - these were at light manufacturing facilities that generated bulk waste. This is a service business with the emphasis on service. Getting started I would concentrate on the commercial GC's and home builders in your area. Be competitive on price but give them excellent service and keep your billing current and concise. The billing part sounds easy but it can be a headache when you are pricing by the haul with a tonnage cap and the box is over tonnage by a couple of tons. The extra tonnage on the landfill bill has to be added to the haul bill. When you are running a bunch of boxes it's very easy for this to get screwed up. What else would you like to know?
Thanks again for all the info. Right now I am going back and forth on lift styles and truck brands. What make and model where you trucks and brand of the hoists? Also what kind of dump fees where you guys seeing for your 30's. What about your cost to the customer for a 30, I assume you limited to around 3 tons then had around an $80 overage per ton charge. Guys around here are around $50 delivery and $450-600 for a 30 yard. Im trying to come up with a price point for all my cans to see what I can earn after my overhead. Also how did you calculate overhead costs on your trucks (maintenance,fuel,wear,replacement)? I want to get started in the business to have capacity for 30's and under. Not sure if Ill get into front loaders or not though, Ill have to see how things go. hat kind of intial startup did you have as far as number of cans Thanks for all the help
A Hino 268A 26K single axle with a swap loader, I think it was the 18K lb model. Both tandems were Macks an '06 and '07. The '06 had a dual lift system and the '07 had an ampliroll 60K hook. The dual lift was a combo cable hoist and hook lift. It worked like any "combo" not real good at either. I wouldn't suggest one. http://www.heil.com/products/roll-hoists/dualift All 3 trucks ran Allison auto's, something I would suggest. Calculating operating costs is tough due to the nature of the business. It's hard to calculate fuel, tires and maintenance in the beginning as you won't know how many miles your trucks are going to run until you get several months for a baseline. The nature of the roll-off business is you will be everywhere across your service area. For starters draw a service area on a map with zones. Decide the maximum distance you are willing to service and then have 1-2 zones within that max service area and price them accordingly. Closest zone is the cheapest and charge more as the zones progress. You'll know your base truck cost to finance, insurance and tags as that doesn't change. Fuel and tires will depend on how much they roll. Our pricing depended on many factors. The area described above but also landfill we would be going to and the gate rate they charge. The gate rates we paid were from $18 to $26 a ton. The private C&D landfills will negotiate on the gate rate depending on how much tonnage you can bring them. The more tonnage the cheaper price. The county landfills are a set rate and rarely negotiate. For the over tonnage (above the 6 ton cap) we would add $2-5 a ton to the gate rate. Most of the 30's we sent out had a flat rate with a 6 ton cap. $350 to 450 was the going rate depending on the many factors. However, we wouldn't truck a can across town to go to a cheaper landfill if there was a more expensive one closer. $5-6 a ton difference on a 6 ton load didn't justify 30 or more minutes of drive time. The rule of thumb was to go to the closest landfill because you can dump and return that box and be off to grab another one. The small difference in disposal costs were less than the revenue generated by keeping the truck rolling to the next can. This also plays back to service and cycle times. We would always try and get a $50 delivery charge but you don't want to charge a GC who has several boxes that turn on a regular basis a $50 fee for every can. Also we never charged a daily can rental. For startup capital we had around $50K cash, financed the rest through local banks and Mack financial.
I watched the videos on the dual lift system. The versatility seems nice but just from the looks of it, it appears like you said that it doesnt do the best at either. Do you prefer the Allison autos just for the simple fact of being able to hire a wider range of drivers, or are you looking at it from a maintenance standpoint? I like your plan for the service area, charging different prices for different areas. What is the farthest distance you would run from your office or laydown area? Im surprised you had a 6 ton cap, most around here are only 3 tons which is annoying. A higher tonnage capacity would allow me to be more competitive in my area. Probably charge a one time $50 delivery, $400 for a 30yrd and just an additional $400 for every swap with a $75 overage charge.
Having a fixed overage cost doesn't make sense. I have seen 19 tons of tree debris in a 40 yard roll off and 23tons of c&d in a 40 yard. Granted the driver shouldn't have picked those up, but it happens. Need a contingency for overloaded cans as well.
Stay away from the dual lift and go either cable or hook. I prefer the autos for the reasons mentioned but more importantly the speed and convenience. It's just easier to maneuver a crowded street or site and pick up a box when you can push D or R while working the hoist controls. That's my personal preference. The service area covered about 40 miles. Of course there were exceptions where we would travel longer distances. 6 ton cap is pretty standard in my area. You need to figure what your costs are and what kind of return you want on the truck and the cans. The overage rate is tailored to that particular box or customer depending on what's going in it. A 6 ton cap is a base line to determine the price of the box. 2-5 tons over that cap is the normal over tonnage for commercial and residential building wastes - of course not concrete or asphalt but normal debris such as lumber, drywall, etc. Cans on these type jobs will vary from 3-10 tons depending on the stage of construction. However, this business and pricing a can is never set in stone. Different customers, different sites and different materials hauled should all be priced accordingly. What I am saying is there is no rigid pricing structure that is to be held too. For your regular customers you will have a good idea what type of jobs they do and what type of debris will be loaded into the container. The first question asked should be where is the box going and what's going in it. You should have a decent idea of what the debris will weigh and be able to spec a container size for the customer. What you are describing is overloading and that has to be dealt with separately, it involves a call to the customer to unload the overloaded can before you can pick it up. You will have overloaded cans, it comes with the business. This is the reason why we had very few 40's and didn't like to send them out to job sites.
Having an auto would certainly make maneuvering easier however I dont have any experience running them in medium or heavy duty trucks, Ive always had manuals. Ive heard nothing but great things about Allison trans but I just wonder what kind of lifespan they have? As far as my service area I think I am going to stay in my county which is about the size of your service area and luckily I am centrally located in the county. Right now I am going back and forth with Mack, Peterbilt and Kenworth. I was leaning towards Mack until Ive been coming across bad talk of them after Volvo bought them out. A few local guys swear by Mack but they are running pre Volvo buyout trucks. Any comments on this?
volvo :thumbdown:throw up they couldn't get any body to buy there VHD construction trucks so they bought mack out and are changing them to volvos and expecting people to keep buying them need to take the dog off the hood cause thats the only thing left mack all the large dump truck fleets here are going to KW because they can't keep the new Volvo/mack's out of the shop
I haven't put 100's of thousands of miles on an Allison so I can't specifically comment on the longevity. However the ones that I have owned served me well with no problems. The Mack's I have owned have been 1 - 2006 and 2 -2007's. I am not familiar when Volvo bought Mack but those were good trucks. The only problem we had was a leaking plastic coolant reservoir on a 2007 tri-axle dump that was retrofitted under warranty to an aluminum one. Other than that they performed as well as any other truck. Now the 2005 International 7600 tandem I had is a different story. That truck swore me off of ever buying another International other than an older body style 4700/4900, those are good trucks. That probably had as much to do with our crappy dealer as it was a crappy truck - which is a terrible combination. It's one of those dealers that don't give a damn about you unless you are running a fleet.
they started going volvo in 2007 some models CTP, they still had the cv series witch was the last mack's most all of the plastic tanks cracked in the bottom seam. the international dealer is not any better one of my customers just bought a new mixer truck when it got here from out of state it was throwing an engine code called the dealer they bold him to get in line behind 200 yes 200 trucks ahead of him .
That was it.
the guys around here are running tri axle (tandem with a air drop axle up front of the drives) kenworths, with cables. However I saw 2 new trucks that were automatics & hooks last week on the lot!!!
Sorry if I'm hijacking but Cm1995 on your comment about landfills who maintains a landfill after they are closed or how do they have enough money to maintain them after they are closed? Jerry
In Alabama it's the owner that has to maintain them after they close and have a bond in place also.
Now Im hesitant to buy Mack or International which is disappointing. Im going to have to continue researching makes and models to find the most reliable setup.
We run 5 rolloff trucks and 80 containers. I buy Mack with Allison automatics. We have considered the hook lift but never bought one because all of our containers are for cable hoist. I have had no problems with engines are transmissions.
What years are your trucks? Where do you get your containers from?
We bought most of our cans from Bakers Waste Equipment out of NC and Nulife Environmental out of SC. Both make good cans.
The trucks are 09,07 06,02 and 01. All Mack's Granite's with Galbreath tilt frames. We get our containers from Rolloffs USA. Most of our containers are 30 CY's but we have been buying some low profile 20 CY's for small contractors and home owners. A 30 yarder will run you $5000. We make more money in the rolloff business than we do the residential solid waste collection business.
I have a small hauling business and do some dirt work, we added a hooklift truck to our fleet a couple of years ago and it was a great addition. I bought a used ampliroll hook (60k) on e-bay and mounted it on a quad axle 357 Pete. The guys at Marrel have been very supportive when I needed technical assistance. I run 10-40 yard cans. Seems like the 20-30's are most used by my customers, as mentioned before the 40's get overloaded too easily and I tend to use them mostly for my own projects. One thing I did recently that comes in handy is got a 20yd that fits inside the 40, this saves a trip when going to the demo site and I use the 20 for scrap iron or something else that may need to be sorted. I also have a flat bed for the hook lift that is very versitle. Although my Pete has a 9ll trans I think an allison would be the way to go if you can. I have a couple tandem KW's with allisons and think it would be really nice in a hook truck. This winters plan is to re-mount the hook on a bit newer KW chassis that we built from a wreck. I will post pics when and if we get this done.
Welcome to the Forums dirt curt!:drinkup Ampliroll is a good hoist, we were happy with it.
Any update on the project?
Just wondering what was the best way to grow your roll off business we have been in the equipment rental for 13 years and have 7 stores we also run a portable toilet business with over 700 portable toilets out we just got into the dumpsters this year with a hook lift and 20 20 yard containers it's going good we rental probably 7 to ten dumpsters a week mainly to residential clean outs and such but just wondering what would you suggest to make it really boom to where I have to order more containers
I bet I can find you over 700 prospective customers in under 5 minutes.
Welcome to the Forums Kchauler!:drinkup With 700 portable toilets I image you have a lot of contractor business? If so there's your client list. I would offer them a package deal as one of the first two items needed on a job site is a toilet and a dumpster. Often a toilet is one of the first items delivered before the GC needs a can. Get in on the front and lock it up. We were considering getting into the porto business pretty seriously, then the economy tanked in 2009. We were going to offer package deals as the client list overlaps.
Oh believe me the toilet customers have already been hit up most our toilet customers Are home builders
Who have a hard time spending the money on a toilet but do it because they are required on a new house build no the ones I'm trying to look for are the long term dumpster rentals the steady money what would you all Suggest there
I'm also wondering how many can do you guys think a guy should be able to exchange or set in a day I know distance is a big factor on the runs but on average do you all think 5 to 10 can a day per driver
And sorry to be a forum hog but does anyone use a salesman to push the dumpsters and if so how does it work for you is there a return on that
The money is made in the quick swaps and return or out to another customer.
By us there is no rental charge on the dumpsters only a charge to pull the dumpsters plus the weight at the transfer station. The money is only good if the truck is running 5 days a week every week. It's getting very cut throat here with dumpsters a lot of small guys getting bought up by nationals and the ones left standing are being run into the ground.
Waste management has bought out two of the biggest guys here which is why we actually got into the roll offs most people don't like to call and be put on hold and I have called to check prices and have hear from customers that they are three to four weeks out to get a can to them so we have a slight advantage of being able to get the can out there quick
If you are going to be spotting the can in tight places a second hook on the front of the truck works good for twisting and turning.
We went with a kenworth t307 single axle with a sl240 hook and it seems to work great to get into areas slot of the cable trucks can't touch the hardest issue is convincing people they don't need a huge 40 yard roll off for a garage clean out or contractors trying to fill the box with dirt and concrete but we make sure and have their credit card on the ticket for time like that
Exactly, service can beat the big guys every time. Nobody wants to use a call center when you need a box pulled, you need to talk to the guy that is scheduling the pulls.
I will tell tou after renting portable toilets along with our equipment rental for 13 years now I would take renting dumpsters out anyway day over a portable toilet people treat you like a person when you show up with a dumpster and a nice truck they treat you like trash when you show up in a portable toilet truck and you don't get any complaints on the dumpsters where with toilets you will hear everything under the sun it's just a completely different world so for any haulers thinking about add toilets to a roll off service I would say don't give your self the headache
Is anyone else running into the same thing where the big guys seem to be running late on getting dumpsters out which is helping our business
It sounds like the economy is doing well in your area. Something to keep in mind: If you're getting jobs because the bigger operations are too busy to be bothered, consider that business that they are LETTING YOU HAVE. That's not to say that you're not earning every penny for the work that you're doing. But, it's a market share that the bigger companies are either ignoring or are unable to satisfy. Don't take it for granted. A slow down in demand or investment on their part could change that from one day to the next. One question that you need to find the answer to is : Why don't the bigger operations invest in more trucks and cans? Is it laziness? Negligence? Is it because they are unsure about the return on investment? Are they satisfied with the status-quo?
If the big guys in your area are like the ones in my area, their profit center is the residential routes first, commercial front loads second and roll-offs third. If they are operating landfills then that's their golden goose. Point being is their money is generated through contracts for regular service. Roll-offs are sporadic in revenue with the exception of the packer units and scattered open tops that stay in the same place. Roll offs are a very seasonal business, probably the reason why the big guys aren't adding trucks and cans as they know they'll be sitting at times through the year. In my area their residential route trucks and front loads are all new. The roll off trucks are older and more rattier, they reinvest in what makes them money.
That all makes sense I think a lot of the big guys are focusing on buying out competitiors around here when waste management has bought out the bigger guys they keep the name and the staff but they don't reinvest and buy them anymore equipment and yes they do have the landfills and the residential routes so that may be what they are focusing on we are figuring that we have about 9 months to really make good money and then winter will set in and it will die off for awhile until spring one question I had does any body set out recycling dumpster for the public and is it profitable at all
Smart, cut-throat style business. Buy your competition, keep the name so the general public doesn't know and control it. WM has the money.. I thought about the public use recycling dumpsters a lot. I think it could be profitable if the categories were kept small - paper, plastic, aluminum and glass. The problem with glass though is it's heavy and not profitable to recycle it if there is not an end user close. The other three can be baled and transported easily. The problems I see is the public dumping garbage, electronics, etc in the bins and then you have to sort that out and dispose of it. We thought about partnering with some cities to put out the cans but at the same time curbside recycling was being added to most of the municipalities so we didn't think there would be a strong enough market. If your area doesn't offer curbside recycling then it might be something to look at. Cardboard can be a money maker. A lot of it goes to China and India for material packaging since they lack the infrastructure to make paper from trees, so it's always in demand.
What made me think about the recycling bins is we picked up a dumpster from a year book printer that was loaded with old year books so we took them to a recycling place about 15 miles away and got paid about $200 for the paper instead of spending $60 to dump the load at the landfill we try and do that all we can and for the most part it has worked out in our favor to recycle and get paid
I sort and recycle most of the metal when I do a demolition. One 30 or 40 yard full of metal will pay $500-1000 depending on weight and I'm not paying the $400 to dispose of the debris in the landfill. That can be a $900 to $1400 swing per can of metal.
Are you still in the market to purchase a roll off truck? I'd suggest swinging your investment towards a hooklift truck. So many advantages to a hooklift system. You would be able to have one truck perform the work of 4 or more. Flatbed. Dumpster. Water truck etc. I can get you more information even pictures of some we have installed
Finally got our hook on the road, still need to ad steerable pusher.
Nice looking hook. What's the spec's?
2000 T800. C12 Cat, 8LL, 46K full locking rears with Chalmers suspension, 20K front, 62000# Ampliroll hoist, pintle hitch with air to the rear. Couldn't really find the truck I wanted when I started this project so I bought one with the right hardware that was wrecked and put a new frame (and a ton of other parts) under it.
A before, and couple of during pics
How much time do you lose dumping your loads in the winter? I work in a landfill and one of the disadvantages I see to the hooks is you can' t bang a frozen load out like the cable can. we man our backhoe every day from late fall to early spring but the only time it's up by the face is if there is nothing else for him to do. A driver may have to chase him down into the cut or find him if he's raising a well. The line can get pretty long when it's been warm enough for the snow to melt or God forbid some rain and then a freeze. depending on what's in the can and how full it is you may make a few trips from the fill face to hoe and back before the load is out.
heil dualift i know this is an old poet, but can you go in detail why you did not like the Heil Dualift?
It's a great business but it has been consolidating fast. Better hurry up!
Starting a roll-off truck and container business in excavation, grading, and demolition is a promising venture. Here are some expert insights: Lift Style: Cable lifts are indeed a popular and practical choice for roll-off trucks. They are versatile and can handle various container sizes. Plus, as mentioned, you can often find used containers compatible with cable lifts, potentially reducing costs. Container Size: Your choice of 30 or 40-yard containers is wise, as they accommodate larger-scale projects. Ensure your roll-off truck's capacity can comfortably handle these containers and that you have a variety of sizes to offer customers. Truck Selection: When selecting a roll-off truck, consider factors like engine power, transmission, and the capacity to handle the containers you plan to use. You'll also want to consider whether to buy new or used. A well-maintained used roll-off truck can be cost-effective. Regulations: Be aware of local and state regulations governing waste management and disposal. Ensure your business complies with these regulations to avoid potential legal issues. Market Research: Conduct thorough market research to identify the demand for your services in your area. Establishing partnerships with construction companies and contractors can be an effective way to secure projects. Budget and Financing: Plan your budget carefully, accounting for the cost of the roll-off truck, containers, insurance, and any required permits. Consider financing options or loans to cover initial expenses. Maintenance and Safety: Regular maintenance of your equipment is essential for safety and efficiency. Train your staff on safety protocols and invest in proper safety gear. By carefully selecting your equipment and considering market demand, you can build a successful roll-off truck and container business in the excavation and demolition industry.