New to excavators and forum. We are considering seriously an excavator for stump digging, trenching & general property maintenance Most use will be digging stumps, digging & emplacing culverts, pond maintenance & expansion, etc. On the small end we are considering JD 60G/Hitachi ZX 60, (around 13,500#). On the larger end would go up to perhaps a Cat 311, but more likely in the 308 range. Models under consideration are: JD 60G/Hitachi ZX60, JD75G/Hitachi ZX 75, JD 85G/Hitachi ZX 85, Cat 308, perhaps Cat 311. I believe that a hydraulic thumb is a must, along with steel tracks. We are looking for something that is large enough to handle stumping out plots of a couple of acres each, but also maneuverable enough go get around in the woods and also use around the property for other projects that may not require as much heft or size. Property is in New England in the mountains. Mix of fields, forests & wet areas. Terrain goes from pretty flat to very steep, with lots of variety in between. Will work in the woods a good bit with the equipment. Also due to slopes etc. stability is important. Any advice welcome. Particularly would be helpful from any folks who have had experience with any of the models mentioned, or if there are other similar sized makes/models we should consider. I understand (sort of) that there is always a tradeoff between size/power & productivity. On the one hand I don't need the kind of productivity of a professional making his living with the equipment. On the other hand, I don't want be "milking mice" with something that may be compact but underpowered. Thanks...
I would believe any stump bigger than a 6-8" one would be nearly impossible with anything smaller than the 8 ton machine. The 311 would be the best for any tree work. The 75's will do fine trenching, just takes a while.
I disagree with Shimmy1; I had a 3800lb machine that I removed many stumps, quite a few around the 20'' diameter range. Many of our ancestors removed huge stumps with nothing more then a shovel and axe. With that said obviously a big machine will make easy work of a project, but with a little engineering small machines are very useful. I've also found that a ripper is much better for stump removal then a bucket. If you are a good operator the easiest way is to leave the tree intact. I have a 6000lb machine now and have been downing oak over 20" diameter that IMHO is doing a good job. On the positive side it's small enough to wiggle through the woods without making it look like I'm adding a walcrap store.
Leaving the tree intact is less of an option here. Will be clearing out stumps after we have a few acres logged off. Agree with your comment on limiting impact. Am not committed enough to log with horses .... but don't want to have it look like a search & destroy mission afterward either.
Can you dig stumps out with the machines your looking at? Yes, Ive done it. Would I buy one intending to feed it several acres of stumps that held log trees upright, never unless I was being paid by the hour and that's the only thing the customer would let me use. Is it the right machine for general property maintence and general trenching, etc., probably. My suggestion, go rent a 20 ton excavator and a 6 ton excavator for a week, and let me know how it goes.
I own a Kobelco 115SRDZ (33000lbs) and have had it for about 10 years or so and I also have a Kubota161-3 (12000lbs). For the work you describe something like the Kobelco would be better suited in my opinion due to a couple things. It is a reduced tail swing machine, it only has about 8" of tail behind it, I have used it in tight woods to install drainage and to remove lots of stumps without damaging any other surrounding trees. It has a blade which is great for leveling yourself or blading loose material after you've rough graded with bucket. It has some good heft and power to it and won't get tossed around like a 60 sized machine would and it be much more efficient. Stumpjumper is 100% correct, rent one of each, small one first, then the bigger one, the amount of reach and power that the larger machine has will make the smaller machine feel like a toy. Deere, Cat, Hitachi, Kobelco, Linkbelt, Volvo and Komatsu all offer reduced tailswing models with blades, hope this helps....
Good advice. I will likely try to rent two different machines.... Most likely one in the 18,000# - 20,000# range and then one closer to 30,000#. Nearly all the feedback is that the 6 ton machines are too light. Have looked at equipment from 5 tons up to 15 tons. The 5 ton stuff looks too light. Also everyone says it you can do it, but lots of work, close to "milking mice". But then I look at the equipment in the JD 130/ Hitachi 135, Cat 312, & Kobelco 160 class and those machines just look too big to maneuver easily or to adapt to other, "non-stumping" tasks. So I am increasingly wondering about the machines in the 8-10 ton, or 17,000 - 20,000# category. I know that I may be looking for a Goldilocks solution, "not too big, not too small, just right" that may not exist. May be expecting too much versatility out of one size class machine.
Forum etiquette question..... Does this post belong more in the Compact Excavator Forum? I did not see that sub-forum when I first logged on. Is it bad form to re-post in the Compact Excavator Forum? This size range is a bit of a tweener and I thought that perhaps some of the members in the larger end of the Compact range may have some thoughts.
I've rented 308's and 314's before and have owned 315's, 321's and a 325. Currently have a 321DL that's our prime mover. First of all what's your budget? Obviously there is a big swing in price on this range of machines. A 308 would be a good fit for what you describe. They are available with steel tracks and a blade. I have used one to set a pre-cast 4x4 inlet box and I was actually surprised it lifted and set it in the hole. A 308 is a lot of power in a small package. A 314 is also a nice machine that has the ability to do larger work but still small enough to get into tight spaces. While my 321 was in for warranty work, Cat gave me a 314 as a loaner. It was a nice machine and I liked it. Demo'd a house and excavated a couple of ponds with it. Easy to move on a tag trailer but big enough to move a fair amount of dirt. Not actually seeing what type of conditions you will be working and all you want the machine to do limits advice that can be given. Oh yeah, welcome to the Forums!:drinkup
Yes it is bad etiquette to post the exact same topic in two different forums as it creates two threads with the same information and just jumbles up the board. Since your looking at a wide range of sizes, the excavator forum is appropriate. By most industry standards mini's top out a 12K and what your looking for is in the higher weight classes. Most importantly relax, have fun and enjoy all the entertainment and info HEF has to offer.
On budget, will spend, within reason, what is necessary for the right equipment. The models that I mentioned in the original post are within budget. Partially due to some funds from a timber sale a year or two ago. Conditions... We are in the mountains in New England. Equipment will be used for projects and maintenance around the property. Rural use, not urban. Four season. Not much, well likely zero, concrete or asphalt demo work. The nearest paved road is over a mile away. Will be used on around barn & house, in fields, logging trails & woods around the property. Digging dry wells, putting in new culverts, repairing ponds, stumping out clearings, digging & stoning road/driveway drainage, etc. are immediate needs. But this is the type of work. I am guessing that stump removal will put the greatest strain on the machine in terms of power & weight. Stability will be important.... will operate in woods, in wet areas and on slopes. Also as a newbie, I have no desire to flip the bugger. So am looking for a combination of size, maneuverability and power/weight that may or may not exist. That's why I am asking folks with better knowledge and experience than I have, or likely ever will have. Thanks...
I've logged several hours on a "mini ex" and several on various makes of 20 tons machines. Will a "mini ex" do what you want? Yes. As you said though you will be milking mice. Doesn't sound like you plan on doing things like burying downspouts and fixing water leaks in the front yard... So I'd look at a bigger machine. Anything in the 12 to 15 ton range especially in a reduced tail swing will move around well in a 10 to 12 foot opening. It will dig stumps much more efficiently, the extra reach and bucket volume will be greatly appreciated working on ponds. Find one with a blade and while its by no means a dozer it can spread a little gravel. The blade also helps stability to be able to prop yourself up. The conventional tail swing machines will be more stable than a reduced swing though. If you have the room to work in go big, you won't regret it. Its much cheaper to rent a mini to bury those downspouts or dig up that water leak than it is to rent a big machine when the mini runs outta lead in its tail.... John
First, thanks for the responses & the help. Yes, definitely looking for a machine with a front blade. Will likely add an additional counterweight as well. Just for the record, the "go big" advocates have talked me out of anything below 8 tons. But for a lot of reasons, I won't/can't go to 20 tons. At the same time, I have to consider alternative uses and maneuverability, so am narrowing the search to machines from about 17,000# to 30,000#. I realize that there are tradeoffs... Also, as folks have suggested, may indeed rent before buying. Some have suggested machines in the 12 -15 ton range, but in looking at specs there appears to be a pretty big jump from 8-9 tons straight up to 15 or so. Deere, Hitachi, Takeuchi, Cat, Kubota, you can fill in the rest, all seem to offer machines in the 17,000# to 19,000# range. Wacker Neuson 8003 is in that size range and looks interesting as well. All of these have dealers within 30mins to an hour of us. But then there is a pretty big jump in size from just under 20,000# to 30,000#. The next suspects are in the 15 ton range. Can't find much in the 25,000# or 12 ton range. Am I missing something? Some things that I have found interesting in looking at this..... First, Takeuchi appears to have stronger specs in the TB180 & TB280 vs the rest of the pack in the 9 ton range. I know, I know, specs can be deceiving. But, while the Cat specs are somewhat below similarly sized competitive equipment, most of the used stuff that I see on the web for used Cats seem to have more hours on them than some of the competition. To me that means that folks are holding on to their Cat excavators longer. From a pure numbers perspective, the Wacker Neuson 8003, looks very comparable to the Cat 308. The Cat 311F RR is a 30,000#, reduced radius machine with an engine that is 70hp. Most other machines in this weight class are anywhere from 90 hp to 97 horses. It only has 5hp-7hp more than the Cat, Takeuchi & WN machines that are 12,000# lighter. I appreciate that in many instances weight is your friend, but is the Cat 3111 underpowered for its weight? (Also understand that the hydraulics on an excavator are important, much like the PTO on a tractor, but there still seems to be some relationship between total hp and the ability of the power plant to do work.) If anyone has any perspective on machines in the following makes/size ranges that would be helpful. Not wanting to start any flaming brand wars. If it is more appropriate than a reply, a PM is great as well. Deere/Hitachi 75G/ZX75, 85G/ZX85 Gehl Z80 Takeuchi TB180, TB280 Wacker Neuson 8003 Deere Hitachi 130, 135 Cat 308, 311, 312 Thanks in advance...
Update.... First, thanks to all the experienced folks who provided input. Ended up getting a Volvo ECR145 DL at the end of last year. Due to the tremendous winter, did not get it out to often until recently. Since then, have installed two culverts and done a decent bit of work cutting some trees and clearing stumps in a few of our fields. Have not gotten it into the woods yet, but have done work in more open area as I get used to the machine. I think that it is likely the "just right" size machine for our uses. So far, have pulled some birch stumps, as well as some decent sized spruce. Machine didn't even hiccup. Very confident that it will do just fine handling some of the larger stump work in our woods. Also, the zero clearance/reduced tailswing was definitely the way to go given the use it will have in our woods and on our logging trails, also will be more forgiving since I do not have prior experience with an excavator. Machine is equipped with a dozer blade and we got a trenching bucket as well as a tilt finish bucket and hydraulic thumb. Have already used the trenching bucket for stumping and the finish bucket for culvert prep and installation. While I am sure that these types of projects and tasks are small beer for the professional equipment operators on the forum, for me the machine was enormously helpful. It will come in very hand for our projects and add to the enjoyment of the land. So thanks for the input... most of it actually helped to ensure that I did not make the mistake of getting a mini. This machine in the 35,000lb and 113 hp range seems to be the perfect ticket.
Sounds like a nice machine, got any pictures of it?
Forgot to mention the forestry guards on front & top
Nice looking jigger you've got their 1026phr. As said up thread a ripper is so much better for getting trees and stumps out of the ground than a bucket and it's easier on the excavator.
1026phr, you're close to New York. I bought a SEC ripper for my 210 last spring. Brand new, paid $1700. Before any of you trash the SEC, it may be true for the buckets, but that ripper is indestructible. It weighs 1000 lbs. Carrol Equipment is the dealer.
nice machine
Took your advice... here is a pic of the new ripper for stumping. Have not tried it out yet. Craig did not offer a two tined ripper, only single tine. Gent who sold the excavator to me worked with Craig to get them to make a two tined ripper to spec. Ripper should mesh with the three tines on our hydraulic thumb. Pretty stout... side steel on tines is 1 1/4" thick.
Mustang Version of the Gehl Z80