Hello everyone, I have recently begun digging ditches for geothermal ground loops in the Pacific Northwest where we have almost every imaginable soil configuration, clay, rock, sandy loam (seems like always lots of sticky clay is the biggest problem. The company I ahve been working for is very particular about the quality of the dig, typically a 5' wide by 5' deep trench which has to have a clean and level bottom. My question is this; I currently have a Takeheuchi(spelling?) B145 with a 48 inch muck bucket that I have been using. This is a great little machine but just not up to what I am doing. I want something which can easily uses a 60" bucket and not be underpowered. I am thinking along the lines of JD120, cat 312, or similar. Also ahve used Kobelco in the past and liked them. Am i looking at the right size machines or do I need to go bigger? The local Kobelco dealer also sells Dosan machines which are fairly inexpensive even new. Any thoughts on those? (I can just about imagine that most will be negative!). I need something that can be hauled by a regular 4 axle dump truck without too much trouble. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance for your help! Karl
Have you put any thought into a wheeled excavator? Depending on the travel distances from site to site it may serve you well to consider a wheeled undercarriage. I am a firm believer in tight/reduced/zero tail swing machines not only for maneuverability but also safety for the ground personnel. I have been looking into the Liebherr A 914 Compact Litronic for my own needs, contrary to popular belief they are available in the US and they are great machines. As anyone in here will tell you, dealer support is crucial with any machine.
Thanks for the response but I am going to stick to a tracked machine. A lot of this work is done in very wet conditions and I don't think a wheeled machine is an option. Also, due to their lack of popularity here I think it could be a white elephant at sale time. Thanks for the response though!
I would look into a Komatsu PC138USLC , it's a very capable and compact machine and should transport well with the rig you mentioned. Again, I am a huge fan of the reduced/tight/zero tail swing machines from any manufacturer. You make a good point though, if resale is an issue -which it should be- the machines in the class you seek that are most popular in your area would be the ones to focus on. Like you said, you wouldn't want to be stuck with a white elephant.
Great! I will look at these, not sure who services them here but I am sure there is a dealer in the area (I am in the Portland Oregon area.) I believe these are around the weight class I am looking at. Would this hande the 60" bucket? I want to be able to dig my loop trenches with just one bucket width as this is (IMHO) the eaiest and most efficient way to do it. Thanks SeaMac!
Here is the contact info for your local Komatsu Dealer . As for your 60" bucket, there are numerous considerations here, is it a mass excavation bucket a ditch maintenance bucket, what is its weight and so forth? The best answer will come from the equipment dealer or attachment dealer, then again with the wealth of knowledge in here you could get some valuable insight that way too.
Wow! I really appreciate your help! I will call them and see what they can do for me, they are a pretty well known name around here. I want the bucket to be as heavy duty as possible but it has to have a smooth edge so I guess it would be more like a "maintenance" bucket. I always prefere to go with the heaviest attachments I can as they seem to last the longest. I will talk to the dealer as well as some of the other ones around here but I have a feeling Komatsu may well be a little easier on the pocket book then JD or Cat! Thanks again for the help!
If they're anything like our local Komatsu dealer, they will go out of their way to work a deal with you or find a used machine to suit your needs. Good luck...
Thanks again!
I have to say I've never been a fan of Komatsu excavators. I spent over 10,000hrs on a new (at the time) 270LC. It was not as well made as the Volvo's and Hitachi's and the controls/hydros were not nearly as accurate. The ergonomics were poor as well. Realistically all newer machines are easy to operate compared to the old ones and if you stay on one machine you'll get used to it. I got moved around from one new machine to another and really got to know each and everyone. I have my favourites but the old Komatsu didn't make the cut. Just my opinion.
I don't know much about Komatsu machines, they do seem to be at the lower end of the price spectrum. Never ran a Volvo but do like Hitachi and John Deere quite a lot. Would like to go with one of them if I can find the right deal but all the low hour machines I have looked at are priced at almost new prices or, they have a lot of hours and are more of a risk. I don't want to buy new but don't want a used machine with a new machine price! There must be some midle ground there somewhere. I am also trying to decide if the 120 size will be adequate or if I need to be closer to a 160. transporting and access to jobs get to be a problem with anything much bigger then that.
There is a place in Sandy right off of 26, called buzzards. They always have equipment parked out along the road. I picked up my ex120 from them. So far its been a great machine, minus one leaky hydro line.
That place is about 3 minutes away from where I live (off of Shorties Corner) and I am actually looking at one of their trucks, a nice T800KW dump truck. I have always wondered about their machines but they sure do turn a lot of equipment so they must be doing something right! Can I ask what you had to give for your 120 and what kind of hours it had? I may see if they can start looking for a machine for me as well as hitting everybody up on Columbia Blvd. Great to hear from someone in our neck of the woods! How has business been for you? THings have been picking up pretty well for me this spring. Thanks Karl
I dropped you a PM kyoshi.
Modern Machinery is the local Komatsu dealer. i just rented a 315 CAT and will say it is a very nice machine, it weighs about 36,000 and is less than 10' wide so it is haul-able with a tilt trailer behind a dump truck in the PNW. although i don't care for them i think for what you are doing the reduced/zero tail swing machine would work well for you
doosan 140 or hitachi zaxis 130
or sumitomo 120
13bnos thanks for the info about Buzzards, I am always a little leary about non mainstream dealers and will see what happens with the truck deal! Big Iron, what don,t you like about the Cat 315? I have not been a fan of 0 clearance machines myself as they seem too tippy. I have thought more about a 312 or 320, any thoughts on those? I am also curious about the Doosans, anybody have any comments on the quality, reliablity of the machine? Thanks for all the advice!
From my experience owning two 315's and putting several thousand hours between the two of them, you can't go wrong with one in good shape. Depending on your local weight laws it's the largest sized excavator you can pull on a tag behind a dump. They are good on fuel, responsive, strong for it's size and dependable. The next excavator I buy in that weight class will be a 315CL.
Never ran doosan, but I have put a lot of time in hyundai, pretty close to doosan price wise. 7,000 hours on a 160 working in 60% solid rock and zero major repairs. Machine is still very tight. Digging with a 60" bucket on anything less than a 160 will be slow going depending on the ground. If you go smaller I would consider a hydraulic quick change so you can dig with a 3-3.5' digging bucket and use the big bucket for easy digging, and clean up.
That's good to hear, I ahve never owned a Cat machine but have always heard about their service. What would be a reasonable price to pay for a machine with low hours? (no more then 3000)?
I used a rented Hyundai 160 last year and it was a decent machine, pushed a 60" bucket w/o any problem through really thick clay where a 120 (my 1st attempt) was really slow. Can I haul a 160 behind a dump? (I don't remember the weight of the machine I used)
kyoshidog, It has been my experience having laid countless footage of underground utilities with Komatsu PC138USLC, PC228USLC and CAT 321 LCR, 328 LCR's that these machines are not tippy by any means. Both CAT and Komatsu add a great deal of weight to the undercarriage and superstructure to offset the small footprint these machines have. If operated within chart they'll lift what they're rated at with total stability. I think it's more psychological what some Operators feel about stability with these excavators. The 'matsu 228 for instance is a 25t machine but it certainly doesn't look it, the CAT 328 is a 35t machine, bet most wouldn't think that either. The flexibility you enjoy with a tight-swing machine opens doors for more work whereas you become limited with full-swing. It's a decision only you can make, but any business decision has to view the bigger picture and be the most cost effective choice with the highest ROI. The opinions we share are really only just that, machine spec's speak volumes above opinion, product support lends to peace of mind. I know here in Florida any dealer new or used will allow you to demo their machines, if they don't or won't I wouldn't do business with them. You're making a capital investment and you should base it on what is right for you and your business. I've been at this for a long, long time and have seen numerous contractor friends make really costly mistakes because they didn't check the facts and went only on opinion. Good luck, and send some cooler weather this way would you?
X2 I have logged a lot of hrs in both a little 320 cat and a bigger 345 cat (both new machines). Liked them both very much. Good balance, accurate hydraulics and lots of power. The 320 had a thumb that stole hyd. pressure from 1 track motor. Man was that a dumb move. Couldn't squeeze and drive straight and if you squeezed while on the move you made a sudden turn. Not cool. Also not Cat's fault.... thumb was after market. The 345 was not a machine for rookies! It had enough power that an inexperienced operator could tear it up pretty fast in the rock. For the size it was very fast and nimble... I miss running that machine. Loading a 30 ton rock truck in less than 2 minutes was a blast!
If your projects do not include mass excavation on a grand scale or laying sanitary to a 30’ deep lift station invert but more general excavating work then I believe the following list of machines is worth some serious consideration. Again, a tighter swing and smaller footprint means being able to do more with less thus opening the door to more opportunities. These are not all but a good representation and it's only my humble opinion. :salute CAT 314 LCR: Operating Weight: 31,085 lbs. Max. Digging Depth: 19’6” Transport width: 8’2” Komatsu PC138USLC Operating Weight: 32,568 lbs. Max. Digging Depth: 19’4” Transport Width: 8’6” Deere 135 Operating Weight: 32,747 lbs. Max. Digging Depth: 19’9” Transport Width: 8’10” Volvo ECR 145 Operating Weight: 31,640 lbs. Max. Digging Depth: 20’ Transport Width: 8’10”
Really great information I must say and I am not in the position to say that I have anywhere near the hours you gentleman do so I respect your opinions highly. SeaMac, you are absolutely right that this a business decision and one which could be catastrophic if I make the wrong choice! I have never operated the 0 clearance machines you have mentioned, my experience has been on smaller machines that are in fact (IMHO) fairly tippy anyway. I do not do a lot (any) digging at depths of more then 15' or so and don't imagine I ever will so don't need that capacity. I am going to demo some of the machines mentioned here in the near future and will report back with the results. In the mean tim, I have a lot to think about! Thank you all for being so generous with your expertise, I really appreciate it! Karl
I also run a 115 kobelco zero turn and its a nice machine. It's a little tippy with the big clean out bucket but not too bad. It's good machine, very fast, decent digging power for its size. Having no tailswing is really nice when you need it. One downside is it doesn't look like much fun to work on but most newer machines shouldn't need much anyways.
liked the 315 my dislike was referring to the 0 tail swing machines. i own a 320 and it is a great machine, the only draw back is you can't haul it on a tilt bed as it is 10' 6" wide and 54k# little much for a tag a long.