OK, still in the market for a backhoe and am considering importing one from the states (I live in Panama). There is this 2004 Cat 420D IT with 3150hrs for $39,000 in Miami and I just received the photos. Obviously I can't check this machine out in person, but the importer guarantees me that the machine is in excellent shape. So, what can you experts tell me just from looking at these pics? Anything at all?
Spend the $600-800 and fly up to check it out. It will be well worth the time. If you buy it, negotiate the price of your plane ticket off of the 39k. If you don't look at it yourself you are taking a huge risk. It looks to be on great shape and has low hours. It is either too good to be true or a great deal. Good Luck! CD
I bought a 420DIT four years ago with an extendable boom, and cab and heat, 1800 hrs, for 45k.... think their a little high on that one,,, I bought mine from Ziegler's , a Cat dealer.
the machine looks like it is almost brand new, not a machine made in 2004! Pictures prove nothing, easy to have a pic of the hour meter I think
Thanks for the replies Colorado & Gandpa. This machine has a quality seal from Sigma Equipment, which is the only reason I am considering buying without seeing it. http://www.sigmaequipmentco.com/default.htm Anyone heard about Sigma? $39,000 includes shipping & importation costs, so based on what you fellows are saying, it's sounding like a good deal to me. Keep the opinions coming!
I'm not a Cat backhoe expert, more of a Case guy but... The rubber boot is missing around a joystick, looks like something is wrong w/ the loader joystick, and is the chain at the base of the outrigger CAT, or is it there because the outrigger won't stay up on it's own? No way I'd spend that much money sight unseen.
I don't know anything about Sigma Equipment, but it looks like a "Sigma Quality Seal" is just something from that dealer. It means nothing unless you know that company's reputation. I'm with CD see if they will fly you up. Good Luck, Mitch
Is it OK to mention the machine appears to be recently repainted?
Yes, I have also noticed the new paint and the chain. Worst thing about new paint before sale is they most times paint over rust and dirt just to sell. Just adds work for the next owner that wants to paint it the right way. Also, it's important to know that open cab machines have no protection from the element for all the controls and electronics in the consols. The work station becomes old quickly.
In picture #4 looks like the swing safety pin casing is crooked. Maybe not as I'm not entirely sure if that's standard for this model, but it is straight up and down on machines I run. I was wondering where the heater was after seeing the hole by the console/drivers seat, but then figured you'd probably not need such a thing with open cab and Panama!
Regarding the chain next to the out rigger. Some DOT's say you have to secure the rigger. So the they don't fall during transport. BS IMHO
I'd agree. Actually looked at the price on Copa and it is $558 round trip to Miami for a couple of days. Well worth it IMO. You could have the seller meet you at the airport when you arrive. Another thing though is that if you are not an equipment professional and aren't sure what you're looking at then consider paying for a pro to do the inspection for you. Last comment - never heard of Sigma before. They appear to be an independent machinery seller that has no ties to any dealerships and honestly don't have a particularly long list of machines available for sale. Make of that what you will.
I would be very careful. I am from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada and at this time last year went to a local Richie Brothers Auction. There were several Cat backhoes at the auction. After looking them over and operating them I found 3 of the 4 were complete junk. One was spewing out hydraulic fluid from under it after running for a few seconds. All of them had severe pin wear, the wear pads for the extenda hoe were shot and the under side showed signs of snow removal use. Which is to say RUST. The two worst machines were purchased by an Internet buyer from Florida. After talking to a local Cat dealer salesmen he told me a lot of the high hour machines were being bought up and shipped to South America or Florida for sale to South American buyers. This machine isn't one of the ones I looked at but you could be buying something similar. If you can get the serial number and google it and see if you can find where the machine was last sold, also sign up at rbauctions.com and do a search of auction results and see if you can find the machine. You may find pictures of it before it was painted. I've looked at probably 20 machines in the last year. One thing they all have in common is that they ALL look good in pictures. A machine has to be in pretty bad shape to look bad in a picture. As already pointed out the plastic around the joy sticks is cut up and there is a missing rubber boot. Signs of neglect or incompetent repair. Ask for pictures of the undercarriage. You should see no signs of rust and all the hydraulics should be pretty dry. I've attached some pictures of what a 2005 Case 580 looks like that has been used for snow removal. It shouldn't look like that. You don't want to be stuck working on a rust bucket when you live where it doesn't snow! If he wants you to spend $40k and wont take pictures of the under side then something doesn't add up and I wouldn't waste $500 on a plane ticket. There may be good non-OEM dealers out there but what I have found is that most "curb side" dealers go to auctions buy the machines without much care for condition, drag them home, and slap $10k over what they just purchased the machine for. If the machine is really rough they'll through some new paint on it. But they wont even change a filter let alone fix any real problems. Good luck!
Yes greg9504, I can relate to your findings. I was looking at a JD 310E that was advertised as having 3,200 hrs. The ad specified that the dealer had confirmation with the previous owner that the hrs were correct. This machine look very nice in the pictures on the ad. I was not looking to buy because I had just completed the restoration on my hoe. But I needed to stop by wile I was in the city to see what I had missed out on. Well I can assure you, that machine had 13,200 hrs. and the photos were lying more than the dealer. The headliner was drooping from the ceiling, the cab full of water and everything was loose, the brake pedals went right to the floor and none of this was to be seen in the photos.
I would have to agree with the consensus here. I've bought about 15+ cars over the internet from a good distance away, sight unseen and I would flat out NOT trust pictures. Most of the vehicles were a "money back guarantee" on the spot so I could inspect them at that time and make a final / no commitment decision then. I freely admit that cars and equipment are different, but many things are the same. I also should mention that as a pilot for a living, I can travel anywhere in the country for free so I am not even out airfare, just a little time, which helps me do such things. In no way shape or form would I buy a backhoe (piece of equipment) without personally checking it out, and if I didn't know what I was looking at I would happily pay an independant mechanic for his time and opinion.
It looks like the 'hoe doesnt extend? And the loader bucket is a GP? Any ideas on why the forks stick out below the loader bucket? I always have wondered about these IT machines and why they are hardly seen on any jobs around this area (Central California). When I have to road trip down to LA, I look around and see none there either.
The forks are currently installed, the bucket is just sitting on top of the forks for easy storage. The forks are a separate implement unlike the flip over or hook on forks you see on most others. The advantage being greater lift capacity (I'm assuming that).
The forks are hooked up to the quicktach and the bucket is just resting on them. I transport my machine this way as the forks are "unruly" to chain down. The bucket is easier to chain down on a trailer when it's scooped up on the forks. I have a 420DIT I bought new in '03. It's been a great machine and very handy as a utility machine - change the bucket and forks from the cab with a switch on the dash. Back to the OP's question. I wouldn't buy a machine without looking at it either. There are many things in the pictures that would scare me away from that machine for $39K. The boots being gone off backhoe joysticks, the heater being removed (under the control panel), the boom lock being warped and the general fact you cant tell if the engine has any blow by or the pins and bushings are worn out. Also the rubber handle is missing that adjusts the backhoe joysticks when you slide the seat around. The seat is aftermarket and the best I can tell doesn't have arm rests, something to think about on a joystick machine. An IT backhoe has a lot of wear points on the loader bucket due to it's purpose and design. If you don't keep these greased, that means there are a lot of P&B's that would need to be repaired if they have excessive wear.
Judging from the apearance of the operator's station this gal looks to have been wrode hard a put away wet. A bit off topic, but regarding internet sales has anyone had experience with Iron Planet? There photo's seem to try and show any areas of concern, and their inspection reports appear to be quite thorough. I often see nearly 200 photos for one machine, and it looks as if they attempt to show even the slightes blemishes?
On the topic of rust, not only does one have to be cautious buying a machine used for snow removal but also a machine that has spent it's life on or around the Gulf Coast. The salt will destroy a machine there as well. Just the salt in the air will coat a machine, it doesn't have to be working on the beach. Back in 2008, I had a project about 20 miles inland in South Alabama. Sent the roller and D5 down there. I have had to replace hyd. hard lines and other fittings due to excessive rust. Any machine that has spent time on the beach or near it will be eat up with rust.
Thanks for all the input folks. My impression has gone from great to so so to outright bad after exchanging a few emails with the sellers. They don't show good will to send more info/pics. There's no paying for a ticket or any negotiating at all for that matter. I have to keep looking I guess. I didn't know finding a good machine would take this long. I'm used to buying cars, but this is a lot more involved. There is this 2004 John Deere 410G I'm looking at locally that looks interesting. But it was previously imported from the USA too, so after reading these posts, I am concerned. If I ask the owner for a serial number, can I look up where this machine was bought from? If so, how?
Remember any machine that is known to have a problem is put in the overseas or Mexico market. Try to find one without letting them know it is for export.