I’ve recently purchased a quarter of ground and I have a number of dirt and tree projects I’d like to accomplish over the next 2-3 years: - remove a couple thousand trees with trunk diameters averaging 6-12” (mostly honey locust and some Chinese elm) - Build about a mile of driveway - Dig post holes for fencing and corrals - Clean out a pond - Transplant trees with a large tree spade - Build a bridge across a creek (if I get permission from ACE) - Misc dirt work All I’ve had is a tractor with a loader, so I can’t decide what combination of equipment I should buy to accomplish all/most of these items. Also, admitting that I just want to buy equipment and recognizing that I’m pretty busy as it is and it may be smarter to hire some/all the equipment work out and not buy anything. I am not (yet) skilled enough to work on much of the equipment myself but I do have a couple mechanics that I trust that are reasonably priced. I’d put money down but have to get a loan for any equipment I buy. With interest rates where they are, it’s less appealing but I still think I’d be able realize some value if I buy the equipment right and do the work myself. Thank you in advance!
Was there a question in there I missed?
I'm guessing he's wanting suggestions for the best machine(s) to accomplish these tasks.
If you have the time, and sounds like you want to justify owning a piece of equipment anyway, most of those jobs could be done with a backhoe. I would find a 580 WT or 590 SN with a thumb and I would buy a post hole auger , a grapple bucket, a 1', 2' 3' bucket and clean out bucket. Make sure the BH has a front and rear QC and aux. hyd. to the front and rear. As far as moving trees, hire that done, I doubt you could justify owning one. The pond, maybe you could reach with a 590 extendahoe or hire that done if its too large and you need a long reach excavator. If you can run a backhoe you could do the rest without much renting of other equipment. You would need a roller to compact your driveway, and while a grader would be nice, you can do it with a backhoe or again hire the final grade on the road.
Hard to give advice on only one piece of equipment. With the clearing, I'd be tempted to get an excavator with a thumb.
I’ll second the backhoe. 4wd is a must for what you want to do, extendahoe and 4 in 1 front bucket would be nice but not mandatory, a set if flip over forks would be nice too. It will do everything you mentioned except maybe clean out the pond and transplant trees, unless the subject(s) are small enough. Just remember, a machine is only as good as the operator. A backhoe isn’t a difficult piece of equipment to run, but will take many hours of seat time to master, especially grading.
You say you "just want to buy equipment" the most important question is how much are you willing to spend? If you want machines to use then you don't want old antiquated project machines. If you have a $300,000 budget there should be some nice choices out there.
A 12" Siberian (I doubt they are Chinese) elm is a lot of work with a TLB. I know, I've taken out quite a few before I got a 200 hoe. The root ball is very large. Honey locust like to resprout from every root left in the ground. A better choice for them would be a tree saw at ground level, and then a shot of remedy and diesel fuel. Put a little spray dye in as well so you know where you have been. You can pull out the stumps pretty easily in a couple of years after the smaller roots rot. It also depends greatly what type of soil you have. 2' of good loam allows a TLB to do what a 200 hoe struggles doing in heavy clay. Sand is better yet. Moisture levels matter as well. If you are in the part of NE that is in exceptional drought just wait for moisture, no matter how many years.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I have a follow up question- There is a 4x4 Unimog for sale locally that has a good sized backhoe on the back. I know very little about Unimogs. Does anyone have knowledge on pros and cons of a Unimog with a backhoe vs a TLB? Thanks Terex Herder. That was one of thoughts I was wrestling with - whether a skidsteer with a tree saw (and sprayer) might be a better bet in this situation.
Why don't you rent a few different things first and find out what works best for you? Then you can go buy something if you like.
A Unimog with a backhoe? Dude....really? The idea of a BH/TLB is that one machine, outfitted correctly, could do all but the tree moving and maybe pond cleaning. Buying specialized equipment for each aspect of the project, while it might give you the best solution for each part of the project, you will spend a ton more money. Your not making money on this, it just your time, so pick a piece of equipment that cover most of the project and sub out what you can't.
Not sure if serious
This isn’t the exact one but this is what I’m talking about. I can buy one in good shape for $17,000 30 miles away. With some of the responses, I’m wondering if this and a good sized skidsteer would be my best bet. And I’ve actually seen a tree spade on the back in lieu of the backhoe.
LOL......go for it.
Where would you get parts? Looks like a Case backhoe and an oddly configured loader. I can't see it being very good at anything and painfully slow if you have to use the backhoe and loader on the same project because you'd have to get in and out of the cab all the time. Also don't know how the transmission would work for heavier loading and pushing. As far as a tree spade you'd have to find one first. Hire the tree moving out. Also be aware that large tree's will die if not enough of a root ball and tap roots are taken. When I subdivided I said the first purchaser could have 10 spruce tree's. Of course he picked the biggest and best looking tree. It was replanted in a bit of a low spot so should have got lots of water but it died because not enough root ball and tap roots were taken. Get a dedicated TLB if that's what you want. A skid steer and midi excavator could be a good combination but a tractor with a 3pt. hitch has lots of possibilities for different attachments and is a machine that could be used for maintenance of the property long term.
They suck as a Unimog and suck as a backhoe... and a backhoe kinda sucks as a loader and an excavator. And they are quite expensive for what they are. Imagine a 100hp, 45mph max machine with several tons of high COG crap added to it. Parts are $$$ too. I got cab mounts for my MB4-94 (406), 3 mounts were more than ive paid for some running/driving trucks! About the only thing available from Napa, Schucks, etc is a few filters and fluids.
Go ahead and buy that dam thing. We have been aching for a new, multi-month repair thread.
Buy a Excavator, Median Weight and have it hauled in. ANYTHING with inflated tires will be crap on flats around Honey locust. Thorns fall off in Clusters like child toy jacks, DO NOT Organically degrade, stay spears for YEARS. Something On tracks and be ready to purchase GALLONS of Tordon. Spray EVERY expose root, every section of stump cannot get out of ground. Will need Pasture Clear for a year or two until roots die off. NOT telling me anything I have not run into.
Okay, so no Unimog. Got it. DMiller, definitely noted. Thank you. I’ve heard that if you spray the locust trees to kill them before you remove them that the thorns will be softer/decompose faster. Anyone else verify this?
Awwwww dam! Which one of us screwed that deal for you?
The wa The way the company you're working for abuses stuff is probably worse than if you had a dozen modified Unimogs to deal with.
You would never ever regret having a good sized skid steer or CTL on the property I would buy that before any heavy equipment
One machine to clear, grubb, grade, excavate? Easy - track loader. Either a 953 or 963 - A,B or C models. I have no experience with the D's and up. Rent what you need or hire out the misc stuff.
I've been told you can do it all with a track loader just the ditches are 8 foot wide
Only way to kill a standing Live HL is Girdle it 3-4" wide, remove the bark to Cambium and spray OFTEN with Tordon. First have to get close enough To Girdle, then have to deal with thorns as takes years to soften. Nothing Rubber tired.
It's all the company I worked for used was 953-63, especially for site development.
What these were missing was a 12V71 with a Allison--{If it had that-Every member on HEF would have told you to buy it-{except one} *
Is this what your talking about? the stink from it alone should kill just about anything. *
NOT Quite!!!, wore a Back Brace surprisingly similar but with belt tensioners 1977-1979 then chucked that in a dumpster. Several tried a single saw cut where the trees just grew bark back across damage, this is where I went on a few here, not my pic in this frame. Need to treat the lower bark edge with copious quantity of RTU Tordon immediately after cut. Is a seconday event with Tordon, ANY Shrub, Tree or planting in contact with the treated tree roots will also die.
I vote for the unimog. It is a WAR buggy. Basically you can drive down the road and flip cars out of the way and then dig the road up behind you so they can't get you as your speeding away... Then when you get to the job site you can light it on fire and burn the whole Forrest down and bam doneZo.
Reminds me of the movie The Pentagon Wars. Great film. The Unimog is a brain child of the movie.
I don't think Tordon is labeled as a basal bark spray, only foliar and cut stump. Remedy Ultra and diesel fuel is labeled for basal bark, thoroughly wet all basal bark areas to a height of 15-20" above ground. And being mixed with diesel, freezing weather is not a problem. Tordon in water can freeze in your equipment. Local timing is mid July to mid January. For cut stump treatment, label usually specifies with 15 or 20 minutes of cutting.
This bears repeating. Don't use it anywhere around trees you wish to keep.
A ditch rider I knew years ago gave me a coffee can full of some stuff the RR use to use {I say use to}. Killed all kinds of stuff-including the neighbors tree.
Paraquat.
What is hilarious is Tordon is NON Harmful to animals, guy I worked with set out a pan of it in water for neighbors dogs to lap up then go home to pee all over their owners shrubbery, worked like lightning!! Dogs were fine, but EVERY Shrub Flower and bush of any kind was DED Dead.
Might have been-looked like rock salt.
There's something railroads use that I think can be mixed with Round Up that makes it sterilize the soil for 2 to 3 years. It must be pretty toxic because you can't bring it into Canada. Just can't remember the name.
Prolly not Paraquat. Paraquat is a contact herbicide and only has foliar activity, inert once it touches the soil. Complete coverage is essential. I've seen many weeds with 90%+ coverage that look like they were never sprayed 2 weeks later. There is no herbicide I know of that works faster than Paraquat, but any amount of green left after a couple of days will probably lead to the plant recovering. Probably "Spike".
Might be Spike I was thinking of.
Any size V ditch is possible just takes a little time with a loader.
That was my original thought but I was surprised by how many folks recommended an excavator instead. That's what lead to this thread. I was leaning heavily towards a track loader but wanted to make sure I vetted all the options.
If I only had 1 machine to make a living with it would be a 953 track loader.
A track loader would be a very versatile machine. I got the impression there were a lot of stumps to dig out and pond cleaning which might be better suited for an excavator.
Tree removal will be my largest job, by far. They are currently all still alive. I've received mixed feedback as to what is better - excavator or track loader.
Track loader or excavator that choice will come down to preference. Either or will do the job but if you have to move the trees any distance imo the track loader will be the better tool
Get an excavator like a 315 cat with a hydraulic thumb with a blade
I don't get the excavator option. The stumps he would pull out would be as he stated 6" to 1'. You don't need a 40K pound excavator to do that. He still wants to build a road, post holes, misc. dirt work, building a bridge, gonna need footings, again that wont require a 160 sized excavator to do. If a man is going to buy a single machine to do all that is on his list, minus the trees, its a BH, or if you want to do the CTL/mini ex that would work as well. A track loader is not much better in my opinion than a single excavator. If he was happy to rent what he wants for each part of the project, this is a different conversation. The man says he wants to buy something that can do a multitude of different things (I added the last part, but it only makes sense). Soley owning an excavator doesn't do that, hard to dig footings, waterlines and so forth with a track loader. A BH does all of those things, especially a 590/410 size BH.
A BH can do all those things however in a painfully slow manner. IMO. With 2-3 years it's doable with a TLB working pretty diligently.
I'd vote for large high flow CTL, buy the attachments as needed.
How fast do you want to do the clearing job and again how many acres of trees to take out? I have some good ideas for the perfect machine for the job.
I don't think we have near enough info to say how long it would take, however being home owner, he doesn't have another project to head to. Assuming the stumps are somewhat close, he could pull 300 stumps in a weekend given the size of the stumps and power of a 590 sized machine being an assumed novice operator, easily.
300 stumps on a weekend? At two 8 hour days that's 18 stumps an hour and 3.3 minutes per stump. With 6 " and 12" trees I don't think so.
DED Dead, Use that term all the time and can't remember which Warner Bros. cartoon or Beverly hillbillies or whatever program it came from. but I'm thinkin' you or Truck Shop know. Cartoon aficionados and all.
IIRC was a Character in either a Bugs or Road Runner cartoon with one of the Gangsta Henchmen saying it. Been repeated FOREVER, including Robin Hood Men in Tights, Dom Delouise.
It doesn't take very long or very many trees and getting the cut/dug trees out of your way takes more time than actually removing the tree. And the Siberian elm trees he has have nasty big root balls.
Yea it is way doable. The biggest issues are the operator's ability to run the machine. If you haven't spent time in a 590N, your probably not believing it, I get it. Until I bought one, I wouldn't have either. These machines are not a typical 580 (the 580WT is close). Just note the bucket breakout is 15,900 and it weights 21500. A 6" stump with a 1' bucket is nothing more than swiping through the stump. A 1' stump, plant the 1' bucket under it and rotate the bucket up, combined with the thumb, your pulling out a 1' stump, even if you have reposition it, its coming out very quick. The boom specs at or better than most 9 ton excavators, weighs as much only with 27' of reach. Again, you have to run one to appreciate just how capable they are. 300 stumps in a weekend would not be hard to do (being a new operator, maybe he will need to work a 10 hour day, my bad) The bigger point I wanted to make is, it's not taking 2-3 years to do that project with a BH. Combined with a grapple bucket as I speced early on in this thread, you can collect and move the stump and move on with the project.
Depends on the tree stump. You're not getting a 6" hickory stump out of the ground in 1 swipe with a 21K backhoe - just not happening.
It is humbling when you just laid over a 20” white pine with the dozer and then a 6” hickory stops you dead in your tracks, BTDT. I swear the tap roots on those go straight to hell and are too springy and tough to shear off.
Stroke, you haven't told us about your soil conditions. Otherwise, we are all shooting in the dark. Around here, right now, the clay is so dry and hard it takes a couple of strokes with a 20 ton hoe to get enough material for a full bucket.
Yes soil conditions would be a factor in speed. I use a 1' bucket with frost teeth on stumps, helps get through hard ground, maximizes bucket breakout, and reduces the size of the hole. I think the OP walked off the stage....or he is working on his Oshkosh backhoe truck.
He may have left, but we will continue to talk this to death without him
He was probably hoping for a consensus on a machine and of course that ain't happening.
I think that the consensus is that due to the scope of his work no one machine is going to be ideal. Pick one (backhoe, excavator or track loader) then plan on renting to do the other odd jobs.