Does anyone have a link to information about wether or not you need a CDL for a truck under 26k with air brakes I have searched and can't seem to find anything that positively says that you do or do not, specificly when dealing with a truck under 26k DOT officers i have talked to in the past said you don't need one but it would be nice to have in writing Thanks:usa
I know what you mean Cretebaby.It depends on which Dot officer you talk to.If the truck has commercial plates,I mean anything other than a "farm plate" you need a CDL.DOT are also cracking down on farmers that do commercial hauling on the side.They are ok hauling from field to farm,or field to the elevater.But not from the elevater to another location.
My Oregon CDL listed airbrakes as an endorsement, like hazmat or passenger.
it is my understanding that you dont need a CDL with air brakes if you are under 26k...does everyone driving those rediculous F650 pickup conversions have one? I doubt it....
I agree I agree with the requirement of air under 26,000. Even if you don't have air you have to have a medical card for over 10,001 pound. I got a ticket to prove it, I didn't have my medical card with me in my 550. Got it dismissed when I went to the court house.
The Federal CDL requirements are based on weight ratings. An under 26K GVW truck with air brakes does not require a CDL. 26,001 GVW with or without air brakes requires a minimum Class B license. If your 26,001 GVW and above truck has air brakes, an air brake endorsement is required. Those are the Fed's rules, your state may have more strict rules, contact your local DOT office for specific info on what you will need. LOL, I know what you mean. Seriously most of those trucks are classified as "recreational" and not covered by the CDL rules. Just like grandpa that never drove a truck in his life can cash in the pension, buy a Greyhound bus motorhome and hit the road without any training or CDL.
Last fall I bought Toyman's 87 Ford LTL9000 with the 25 ton lowboy trailer to haul my 1950 TD-6. It's strictly personal use. No commercial hauling, not for hire. I had a visit last week with the local Mi State Police Motor Carrier officer. He even checked with his supervisor. The only requirement I have to meet is have the CDL with airbrake endorsement. He said that's the good news. The bad news is even though I don't need a DOT number, fuel permit sticker, inspection sticker or my name on the door, I'll be told to go around back at every weigh station and probably will get stopped regularly for not having this stuff. Even though I don't need it, I'll have to prove it every time I'm stopped. The last thing is I need is a few tickets that I have to go to court with proof to get a judge to void the tickets. His suggestion, get a DOT number (no cost), fuel permit sticker (no cost), get the truck inspected yearly (about $95), put my name on the door along with "Not For Hire" and I should roll right thru. We had a discussion about the "recreational" vehicles similar size to mine that don't even require the CDL.
Thanks for the replies I think I have a handle on what needed as far as CDL'd vehicles My question is for vehicles that are otherwise under CDL requirements :usa
The rules have changed in the last year or so but here is what I think the requirements are: 10K-26K GVW trucks - commercially used Federal Requirements: DOT # Federal Vehicle Inspection Sticker DOT medical card for all drivers Fire extinguisher, warning tri-angles Of course the individual states have further requirements for taxes, fuel stickers, emissions, etc.
No one knows the correct answers Hey fellas new member Tulsa OK had a run in with HP the other day he gave me some info on the latest regs. The next day stopped by the tag agency for trailer tags. Found a Dot inspector in the parking lot asked him the same ? as the HP the day before he proceeds to give me a different answer yet. Called the local HP office and can you guess a different set of answers.:Banghead The biggest problem they can all right me a ticket on there version of the law. You just can't win
Welcome to the Forums Big Country!:drinkup Yeah- it is very aggravating. Around here, the local cities have realized that a DOT officer (or shall we say he read the book :bash) on the staff increases the income to the local PD department. Why spend time pulling over a commuter and writing a $200 ticket, pull over the guy pulling a bobcat with a one-ton, you can get a grand or two out of him. The real kicker is the commercial vehicles are seldom voters within the city they get ticketed.:cool2 One of the smaller local cities has recently added a DOT officer. His pet peeve is the "post trip inspection". There is a section in the Fed manual that is not clear wether the post trip needs to be written or not (I have not read that section personally, this info is from a good friend of mine that runs 6 tri's in the area). Well this particular Barney Fife wants to see your written post trip inspection. Now why in the world would you need to bring your truck in at the end of the day, do a written post trip inspection, return the next morning perform your pre-trip written inspection and begin your day. The truck did not move between inspections :Banghead ointhead:bash . I am all for safety and I often see rigs running down the road that need to be pulled over. But hassling someone over a burned out marker light or not having a written post trip inspection although you have your daily pre-trip is just harrassment.
I always thought that it was the pre-trip that was written and logged too. But after listening to lots of "the loading dock" on sirius radio I found out that it was the post - trip that had to be written and logged. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...r/fmcsrruletext.asp?chunkKey=090163348002327d http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...csrruletext.asp?reg=r49CFR396.11#r49CFR396.11
We have a 26,000GVW International 4300 and we have asked a few DOT troopers and they have all come with the same answer as you do not need a CDL with airbrake endorsement for the truck. So you can drive the truck with a Class D license, however if you are overweight, it will then require the driver to hold a CDL with air brakes.
Same goes for a trailer. You can have a Class D license pull a trailer registered for 9,990 lbs but if its overweight you'll need a Class A. I found that out, cop was good about it and just told me to make someone with an A drive it.
So is the cop gonna wait and give the CDL driver a ticket for being over weight? Now that would be a good prank to pull on your favorite driver..
Well I tell ya what guy's.You better get a CDL license If you are hauling anything on a commercial truck or trailer in the US.
Why would you need a CDL to haul a plate tamp in the back of an F250 with commercial plates?:cool2
You dont need a cdl in an f250 pickup now.But you might in the future.Your pretty limited hauling with an f 250.Better get a cdl for the heavier equipment.
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That is the way I have understood it to be also
25C, that was just a rehtorical question. Do you have any info about any new CDL rules proposed that would regulate the below 26,000 GVW vehicles? I have my Class A, with air brake endorsement and I do agree that if you are in the industry, it is a good idea to just go ahead and get one.
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Thats what I was getting at CM1995.Now days its a good idea to have a cdl.I dont have any info on new rules other than they are probably coming, they always have.I got my class a cdl in 1991.I was working at a truck shop and also drove a class8 heavy wrecker.Before 1991 all we needed was a standerd drivers license to run the wrecker in state.Reading this thread reminded me how much things have changed since then.And I'd say rules will keep changing in the future.If I were someone upgrading from say a one ton to a 2 ton truck with airbrakes I would get the cdl to be on the safe side.
Why is having a CDL "on the safe side"
Having a cdl put's you on the safe side for several reasons.There is some training involved to obtain a cdl,mostly safty & some tecknical skills,drivers test to prove you can operate the truck in a safe manner.It's all coverd in the cdl hand book.Another reason is while a dot officer is inspecting your truck out on the road and determins that the truck dose require a cdl and you dont have one ,it would put you in an ackward position.I would go ahead and get the cdl.You never know ,next year you might get a bigger truck.
IMO assuming someone with a CDL is safer than someone without is a joke Go to Youtube and search for Swift and you will see what I mean I think you would be better off to actually know wether or not you need a CDL The only way the DOT is going to determine in an inspection that you need a CDL is if you are running a truck overweight. Then your in hot water either way Do you have Haz Mat endorsment just to be safe?
Post trip inspections are vital basically for mechanics use generally. But most trucking firms, the feds, and state DOT want to see them listed and graphed in your log book. The catch is that if you inspect before the shift and everything is fine, something may happen during the day that needs repair before the next shift. DOT auditors want to see that the need for repair is noted, and then that item was repaired before the rig hits the road again. This is just paperwork BS for the DOT and FMCSA. It's a cover your butt thing. All DOT regulations are subject to inspector interpretation. It then becomes your baby to convince a judge that the inspector was full of do-do, blind, or both.
You can have a trailer with a GVW of 9,990 and only have a Class D license, if the trailer is registered for 10,001 lbs then you need a Class A. IF the trailer that is 9,990 is overweight more than 10,001 lbs you'll need a Class A. Same goes for a truck under 26,000 lbs you can drive it with a Class D, but if it is overweight you'll need a Class B license.
This has been an interesting thread. I will answer your comments and question in order from top to bottom. A CDL license or operating a commercial motor vehicle is nothing to joke about. As of now, its the only way we have to assure that we have qualified drivers on the road. Some are more qualified than others, but all in all you will find that most of them take pride in their work as I do. The utube website is interesting but it has nothing to do with a CDL license. I have had a CDL license since 1991 because that's when it came into compliance. It's a fully endorsed class A because I was driving a heavy wrecker at that time. I will let you argue with the DOT over if you need a CDL in a truck under 26,001# . This thread got me to thinking, there is a class C CDL for vehicles under 26,001# transporting 16 or more persons or if placarded for hazardous materials . I don't know your situation or what your using the truck for, but when in doubt get the CDL. Hope this helps.
What state still requires a class A just because the trailer is over 10k? Thanks but I already know wether or not I need a CDL
Your welcome.Do you need the cdl or not? Send us a picture of the truck.
No I dont need a CDL What good is a picture LOL
Well,we spent some time on this issue.The least you could do is send us a picture of the truck.
What are trying to say you are just here for the pictures Its just a pickup and trailer nothing to look at really
All states require a class A for trailers over 10,000lb. It is a federal requirement. Any state can be more strict in their requirements, but they cannot be more lenient.
Thats where you are wrong Cretebaby.We are here fore conversation and education.Pictures always help.I have ran everything from a hand shovel to aircraft.Post a picture of your rig.I'll bet it's interesting .
That is incorrect
I will try to get a picture in the next few days for you PS I love picture since I cant read
Cretebaby, I get my information from the FMSCA which is the federal association that sets the minimum standards for commercial trucking in the US. All states must comply with their minimum standards. They clearly state that a commercial license is required for trailers over 10,000lbs. Where do you get your information that a commercial license is not needed for trailers over 10,000lbs? I ask this question in able to determine where a discrepancy lies.
Classes of License: The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications: Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR. Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials. This is from the FMCSA site http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm I realize this says Maine on the top but it can be found in many states CDL manuals
Regarding trailers > 10k and the class A CDL: The combination has to be over 26k and the trailer in that combination has to be more than 10k to require a class A CDL. So in theory a 25k truck and a 10k trailer = no CDL, a 15k truck and a 15k trailer = Class A CDL.
Orchard EX that is the way I understand the "grey" area of the CDL requirements. I have two F350's, one single wheel - (11K GVW) and one dualie (13K GVW). I have a 14K GVW gooseneck I can pull with either one. Pull it with the single wheel - GCWR 25K no class A CDL. Pull it with the dualie - GCWR 27K requires a class a CDL. From - http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm
I stand corrected. I guess I can't read as I misread the FMCSA Class A requirement. In my state, California, they either misread the federal requirement as I did, or they opted to be more strict (which is often the case) because they clearly require a Class A to pull a 10,000K + trailer no matter what the tow vehicle weighs. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.:Banghead
No worries:drinkup It would be interesting to know if California misintrepreted the FMSCA guideline or if that is there true intentions to require a Class A for the 10k+ trailer
That's what makes the CDL rules so confusing. Add the grey area in the Federal Rules plus the fact that the states can individually adopt stricter rules and it becomes a state by state issue. And of course the individual interpretation of each DOT officer in the field.:bash
We have been told the same thing in North Carolina, the State has a different Class A for pulling a trailer over 10000 lbs. The weird thing that they have done is restricted your Class A license depending on what you used to take the road test with, use a trailer with a pintle hook/tow ring arrangement and you are restricted from pulling a trailer with a king pin, I thought this was a joke until they restricted the Boss's license. I have CDL Class A's, used a single axle road tractor and 45' Van trailer(king pin) so I am ok, the Boss used a tandem dump truck pulling a 10 ton equipment trailer with air brakes, but can't pull a trailer with a king pin. We have F550's one tagged for 30K, the other tagged at 25k so the crew leader can drive it without CDL's. It is confusing to say the least, but we are going on what we were told.
Confusion runs rampant with many of the CDL issues. As an example. Here in California, when you register a commercial vehicle (anything over 10K lbs), you have to state the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight if anything is to be towed with it. They set your commercial fees based on this GCVW. You also get a sticker that you must display on your vehicle showing this GCVW. I know a guy that has a truck that has a GVW of 26,000 lbs, so no CDL required to drive it. However, it has a GCVW of 34,000 and the necessary sticker displayed. This is so an employee with a CDL could tow a trailer over 10K. The guy, who does not have a CDL, was stopped at a checkpoint (they set these up here on a regular basis looking for DUIs, unlicensed and uninsured drivers). He was driving the truck empty without a trailer. He was cited for driving out of class (because of the 34K sticker) and his truck was impounded. This checkpoint was run by the sheriff's department. He contacted the DOT office of the California Highway Patrol and got his truck out of impound and the citation dismissed. I have found that the LAPD, Sheriffs Dept, and the CHP (those not associated with DOT) actually have more confusion than the average person when it comes to what is required and what is not. I have personally found that the DOT officers in this state are pretty savy on what is required (at least in this state).
2 Questions 1) I am thinking about buying a 2005 International DT466E that has been derated to 25,999 GVWR ....and it has air brakes. We have been told that the drivers of this truck will NOT need a CDL, but occassionally I will hear that you do need a CDL becaue it has air brakes. I did some research and it seems there is some confustion, but by far ,the vast majority of folks say, NO you dont need a CDL. 2) All our trucks are less than 26,000 GVWR and our drivers are only required to have a regular Alabama Drivers License and a DOT health card. I dont understand all these different driver's license classes everyone seem to be talking about? Thank, I really need to know a firm answer on Question # 1 as I am on my way to buy that truck now.
Quite sure according to FMCSA regs that if your trucks are at 26K lbs.or less,you don't need a class A,but if this new truck you're buying has air brakes,that will be a restriction,so you will need to take a test.Alabama might have something more stringent than the feds have however so I would definitely speak to some supervisor at Al.DOT.
No test or endorsement required if below 26K GVW - From the Alabama CDL manual, Section 5 Air Brakes http://dps.alabama.gov/documents/manuals/cdlmanual.pdf
I admit federal regulations are "clear as mud", but isn't that what Bob Horrell said? :beatsme I swear...the federal government could figure out a way to make a free lunch complicated. :Banghead
Yeah,there it is OK,makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE however,at least to me---26K or under with air brakes--no air brake restriction on your regular license,26,001 or over with air brakes--needs a restriction on your CDL unless you pass the tests.Sooooo--in theory,a 18 yr. old hair bag kid who just gets his license can get behind the wheel of a 26K lb.truck with air brakes,proceed to go 65-75MPH on an interstate at night in the rain and then has to whoa up REAL fast.I certainly don't want to be anywhere around that scenario.
Scary, just like Grandpa that buys a Greyhound bus motorhome and has never driven anything bigger than a LTD in his lifetime. Sign the papers and hit the open road....
Just to clarify the clarification,you forgot to add in the RV crowd which some states will allow a class D license holder to drive heavier than 26K lbs. + in their state.
That's what I'm saying tuney...it's all [literally] "clear as mud". From the TN CDL handbook: According to those guidelines, 1) as long as it's a single vehicle less that 26K pounds, whether it has air brakes or not, 2) as long as that vehicle is not pulling a trailer with GVWR over 10K pounds, 3) as long as the vehicle is not transporting HAZMAT, and 4) as long as the vehicle is "not designed" to transport 16 or more people = no CDL required. I suppose this is how the RV crowd and the 18 yr old headbanger kid in a Ryder moving truck get by with a class D operators license. :Banghead
The RV crowd gets a pass because it's a non-commercial vehicle.:cool2
Yeah, and a 2011 Prevost H3-45 S3 weighs 54,500 lbs, and that's before they cram all their gear on it. How the heck is that all that much different than driving a big commercial vehicle.
No because if you had a 10k lb truck pulling a 14k lb trailer the combination would still be less than 26k but the trailer would be over 10k. Makes no common sense, but look who came up with it...
LoL, yup, clear as mud. :tong
You got me buddy... New rules dictate that commercial drivers cannot be using a cell phone, texting, etc while driving or face a big ticket but Grandpa can be tooling along at 70 MPH in is 50K lb motor home checking his email....:cool2 The commercial drivers are some of the safest on the road all the while they have to share it with all the other idiots on the road that are not near as restricted. ointhead