hi guys, new here, do you clean air filters?
No!
Welcome to hef. When you say clean, do you mean blow out with compressed air?
We clean cab air filters only. Engine air filters are always changed out. Filters are cheap, engines are not.
If you feel the need to clean an air filter, it should only be the primary one. This means if it doesn't have a secondary one don't clean it. NEVER attempt to clean a single filter. Tapping the ends on a tire works kind of. If you're thinking about blowing it out, no more than 20 psi. Even though I'm putting these things out there, still best to just replace. Like the other guys say, filters are cheap compared to engine.
Yair . . . Whether or not filters are "cheap" depends a lot on local conditions. If you are changing elements twice a day it may alter the thinking. We used to bump and blow primary elements twice and then send back to depot for washing on an adapted back and forth agitator style domestic washer. There was a special detergent put out for the application . . . secondary or "safety" elements were never cleaned. After drying the elements were inspected by rotating in a darkroom with a light inside. Cheers.
Not too many years ago, My Cat dealer (Ziegler) would pick up your dirty air filters, take them back to their shops and wash them. Never heard why they ended the practice, but they washed them in water none the less.
I worked a fire last week with my ctl, massive amounts of soot everywhere. It has a two stage filter, I took the outside filter off and rinsed it out with a hose... The inside filter was still clean, but I would only replace it.
It used to be approved by the factory - it isn't any more. That should tell you a lot .............
There are good margins on filters?
Yair . . . lumberjack. I reckon you are on the money. Over here there used to be businesses based on cleaning and inspecting elements. When a practice that was considered "normal" and acceptable forty years ago is now discontinued due to so called "warranty issues" you would have to smell a rat. In truth provided the inner element is maintained correctly there is little risk. I don't know what folks do these days but in the red country non cleanable elements would be a considerable hourly cost. The first Allis 21p's came over with "Farr Pamic" air cleaners that had a large rectangular module with many small pleated elements moulded into a soft silicone/plastic base. They were not cleanable, had no safety back up, sucked red in four hours and, even back then, I seem to recall they were nearly ninety bucks a piece. I think our hourly rate on pulling was about $45.00 an hour so it was completely out of the question to run them. In fact Tutt Bryant the Australian Allis Chalmers agents could not supply them after a few weeks, we had used up all their stocks . . . this would have been the early 1960's. There was a hell of a to do and, as an interim measure the tractors were fitted with oil baths to keep us going. The big brass from Farr Pamic came over to look at proper dust and eventually (I think possibly after some legal intervention) the machines were fitted with Donaldsons. Cheers.
I suspect that for the investment required to buy a state-of-the-art filter cleaning rig (they are still being marketed by outside suppliers) plus the operating costs and the necessary quantity of filters to break even the margins are too small. I found an interesting document that might give an insight ..... check out page 25 about cleaning primary air filter elements. https://parts.cat.com/wcs-static/pdfs/SEBU9208-00.pdf "Caterpillar does not recommend the cleaning of air filter elements since there is not a relatively feasible and reliable method of inspecting air filter elements for damage. A damaged air filter can allow dirt to pass through, which results in reduced efficiency." ........plus........ " Note . Caterpillar is not responsible for damage to the air filter elements and/or contingent damage to Caterpillar equipment due to unauthorized air filter cleaning. Any cleaning of air filter elements voids the Caterpillar Parts Warranty associated with the parts."
Back in the late 80's, early 90's when there were still services in Portland Oregon that did filter washing I did some research after going to work for a construction company that was using washed filters. I don't have it but still remember finding an article from Donaldson where they claimed that after each washing the filter's ability to collect dust before plugging to the allowed restriction was decreased substantially. As I recall after a second washing the life was less than 40% of new and almost all filters would fail inspection after three washings. Their recommendation was always use new filters (of course) and do not replace until the filter reached the restriction level where the indicator would show red. Air filters actually become more efficient at removing particulate matter as they plug up, the particles build up and decrease the size of the pores that air passes through. The CAT precleaners with all the little cyclone tubes and the ejector to blow dust out the exhaust was always a favorite for me, though they're damned spendy to replace when some lazy truck driver leaves the exhaust taped shut and starts the engine to blow the tape off... melts the precleaner.
Yair . . . lantraxco . Your #13 post is pretty much spot on from my experience. I think the best we ever got was four or five washings . . . each element was assigned a number and its history was engraved on the metal end housing. Air cleaners were a huge logistics issue for us and in retrospect oil-baths were more practical in our remote area application. We made plywood boxes for safe transportation but obviously they were bulky and took up a lot of room in the Cessna 206. Cheers.
Yes, it tells me that they weren't making enough money selling replacements.
How many major customers use OEM filters..? I know we don't. So they aren't making money selling replacements because the people who are making money are the aftermarket filter manufacturers like Donaldson, Fleetguard, & Fram ...................
Warranty and reputation, pure and simple. If you build engines you want zero warranty due to external issues, filters, lubricants, coolant, fuel, etc. You also want those engines to last just a bit longer than anybody elses so you can claim reliability and low cost of ownership. I always advised owners to use OEM everything until the warranty was up. No matter what the law says, why give them a window of opportunity to deny warranty?
I've had pretty good luck cleaning paper element filters using a shop vacuum . I first use suction hose & go over the entire outside of the element . Then remove the vac unit off the bucket , switch the hose to the pressure side of the unit and wrap a rag around the end of the hose so it fits snug in the filter inlet . Reverse flow air while pecking on the outer frame of the filter . Seems to work .
Lots of them do. But keep in mind, it's not just major customers they make money off of. There are many more machines with smaller operations combined, than with the major operations.
I've always blown the primary filters out at least three times and never had a dusted engine. I kept cleaned spares wrapped in plastic bags after cleaning tied off with wire to seal out any ambient dust. I've been in operations where there were two filter housings per engine and they had to be changed at least every day. At $35 an element back in those days the filter changes would have been the more costly than all the rest of the maintenance on the machine. One trick I learned from an older timer than me was to dab a little grease on the end of the secondary filter before installing the primary back in. I like the red stuff because if any fine dust was getting in it turned black. Probably the best move for us was to go the the Turbo pre-cleaners. The filters I had the best luck with were the old oil bath units. You could clean them out in June and have to scrape the dirt out of the bottom of the pans on the first of September and never have a bad oil sample report. But then again the only cost on them was the oil you refilled in the pan.
Yair . . . John C. I find your comment interesting . . . mostly when I mention oil-bath air cleaners folks tend to roll their eyes. (big grin) As I mentioned upthread in hindsight it may have been better had we stuck with the oil-baths. In our application they were cleaned and furnished with fresh oil every lunch time. It was a bit messy but we had a system and it wasn't all that bad . . . in those days all the oil companies supplied an inexpensive oil specifically for air cleaner service. The mesh screens in the bowls were washed weekly in kerosene and every Christmas the main bodies were removed from the tractor and hosed out with boiling water and detergent and then with kerosene. Cheers.
We service air filters by restriction gauges. We must be one of the most dust free quarries around. Either that or Cat has some of the best pre-cleaners in the world. I have seen air filters go for 1,500 hours or more before the gauges even get close to the red zone. We have some machines with in the neighborhood of 20,000 hours and no bad samples for dirt. Our WA600 Komatsu does go through filters pretty fast but on that one the design that put the intake for the air filter right above the right rear tire does not help.
We also service on plugged filter events. Our 994s and track-type tractors will go around 1,000 hours between plugging primary air cleaners. I think the attachment turbine precleaners that we specified on the machines from new are a big reason for such long filter life.
It's a good read browsing through your responses. I looked up google to find some more info and found out this site airfilterblaster.com has anyone tried this?
I sure don't see $350 there
One way to check air filters is to put a standard issue drop light inside it. compare that to a new one or one that's only been blown out once. Confession is good for the soul...... dish soap and a garden hose ( hey he was a cheap o )