Has anyone had any experience or pictures of the old Allis Chalmers TL series loaders (TL-12, TL-20, TL-30, etc.)? I am fascinated with the suicide arms on those loaders and the Michigan 75's and 125's. Its just a really interesting design that i am for some reason infatuated with. If anyone has any pics/ stories about these two types of loaders or any other loader with the suicide arms, id love to hear them! By the way, i think this is an A/C TL series loader, but i cant decide what model no. it is: YouTube - get chevy powered 1963 front end loader running Thanks again!
That's a TL14D I believe. I have a TL12, that was repowered with a Detroit 353. Which brings me to ask does anyone know any trips or tricks to get these old beasts moving? My loader runs great but doesn't move. You can put it in gear forward or back, and it won't move, I've heard there's a filter that needs cleaning perhaps, or that the clutches need adjusting, but neither of these things I've found a way to do. At any rate, any help would be appreciated...
I have a parts book for Model TL-16 ( gasoline ) ser. 101 and up you could own it
On a related note anyone remember what type of fluid was used in these TL loaders in the transmission? Thanks
Well I've been using the trail and error method so far and have found some information that I figured I might as well put up on the net in case someone else needs it... There's a filter behind where the out line for the transmission fluid runs (the hose that goes from the left side of the machine (if looking as if you're operating it) to the pump on the right side. This hose attaches to a plate with four bolts, just undo the bolts, and pull the plate off. You may have to detach the filter from the plate before you can get it out, this isn't too bad but keep in mind the filter is brass and is threaded into the plate so much spinning is involved. The filter is impossible to find, literally Purelator hasn't made it in fifteen or so years and I can't for the life of me find one. But it should clean up pretty well, and that's probably your best bet... Finally the fluid for the transmission is 8 gallons of C1 or better transmission fluid.
Clutches? Any luck adjusting those clutches? I can't find any info anywhere. I've got a TL-12D that won't move (like yours iceberg210). Is there a similar model, maybe a Case, where the procedure would be the same?
Actually yes: we have a couple of them in use. the TL-30 that is.
Hey 2stagefanWI, what happened to the youtube account? Says its been terminated... :/ Kinda wanted to look over the Chevy powered machine...
Did you ever get the TL12 to move? I've got the same problem. Apparently was working before the clutches were changed, but I adjusted and adjusted and nothing...won't move an inch!
We did get it to move (only7 in forward it looks like however...) We tightened up the clutches, (turning them on those threaded shafts) and that got it moving in forward. TL12D, couple questions, does your power steering work? Cause it's on the same hydraulic circuit as the transmission, and if not, you have a plug in the line, or a failed pump. It could be that when the clutches were changed that the machine sat enough for gunk to get and plug the filter in the bottom of the transmission. Have you checked that strainer yet? If you have any questions feel free to call me or email me or post here, I'm always up for helping others with these great old machines... 801 809 3752
I have a copy of a Allis Chalmers handbook with trhis info in i will get it photo copied next trip to town 4 hours awy so may tkae time may be i could emaiyou and obtain your Fax no and send it that way
I have a TL14 that is currently down for repairs. We are swapping the 24 starter to 12 volt (did that yesterday), took the factory fuel filters off (they leak nonstop) and put a single spin on fuel filter in its place. Now I have to find a way to build a bracket for the alternator. We took the generator off yesterday, real pita to get out, putting an alternator in will be fun. I still have two flat tires and a solenoid to change. I've never gotten the brakes to work. Master cylinder was junk, took it off but could not find another. Anyone ever found a replacement master cylinder? I've run the machine for two years, aside from brakes, sloppy steering and burning oil, it has worked ok.
Greetings! I'm new to this forum thing, but I have a TL-14 Diesel and I have a few issues that I think you folks have been touching on. It starts and runs beautifully, but I have to force the accelerator pedal to the floor and it takes everything its got just to move a little. I had it on snow the other day, and only 1 wheel spins. Is this the clutch adjustment issue I've been hearing? Or is this a transmission filter issue? Secondly, the power steering doesn't work. Is this all part of the same issue? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
I'm guessing this is all part of the same issue. The power steering on these machines is tied into the fluid system for the transmission. The first thing I'd check is that filter, doubt you'll be able to find a new one, but at least mine was brass and some soaking in diesel cleaned it up. Change your transmission fluid (at least the TL12 takes automatic transmission fluid). If that doesn't work check to make sure your pump works (I had to have mine rebuilt). If those things aren't working it won't really matter how your clutches are adjusted, and even if you did adjust the clutches you'd have to readjust them probably if you had any issues anywhere else. That's the direction we took, and mine works great now. After doing some work with it, I do need to adjust the clutches again (I think they just hadn't been used in so long that they got some grime thrown off them, and now I can really adjust them correctly. They aren't too hard to adjust if it's the same on the 14 as it is on the 12. There are just some big adjustment discs that thread on the clutch packs. If you have any other questions let me know, glad to know there are a few Allis loaders still running around.
Thanks Iceberg! I believe I will need to harness your trial and error results. I appreciate your sharing them with us! I purchased some expensive manuals from Jensales (ok, so I'm poor) but I must not have ordered the right ones, since my tractor has some levers to the right of the driver's seat besides the loader and bucket controls and my operator's manual doesn't show them. As soon as the weather improves I'll be out there changing the hydraulic fluid. I'm familiar with Dexron, Type F, ATF 3 & 4, but I've never heard of "C-1." I do spend quite a bit of time in auto parts stores, but I don't recall seeing that on the shelf. Is this special fluid or is it a rating that I will find if I read the label? I think I have a couple gallons of dexron in the garage. Thanks again! I have a lot of work to do with my loader this spring.
C1 is just a 'grade' of Automatic Transmission fluid, and it's a grade that we've long since passed. (I think we're on F now). So no worries on what it is, as long as it's automatic transmission fluid. I'd check your pump to make sure it pumps before you change the fluid, btw, and that way you can make sure it's running clean fluid after you rebuild it if you have to do so...
Thank you! The loader and bucket seem to work, albeit a little slow, so I'd guess the pump is working. I wouldn't imagine they would work at all if the pump had failed. I can't answer to the performance, however. I would suppose that there would be a place I could attach a pressure gage and check for the performance, but I'm not sure I'd know what would be adequate pressure anyway.
There are two separate pumps, and two separate circuits, the pump that runs the steering and the travel is on the back of the engine near the grill driven by a belt, the one that operates the loader functions is off the end of the crankshaft almost right under the seat. They are actually independent systems, so just cause one pump is working doesn't mean the other one is.
Hey iceberg210 we have an old TL-20 that a Guy buy the name of Pat Crawford built a Pre Hauler out of the drive train is all TL-20 and we are in need of some studs for the wheels ? thought you could send me in the right direction maybe or even the size or even if there is a parts book for the TL_20 I could buy ? Thanks for any and all help. Will try and post some pictures of this Pre Hauler it was one of 2 that he built, then he started making the Polar Pre Hauler these machines were made for hauling logs out to the siding before they made the bigger and fast Skidders, Pat Crawford is about 85 years old and is in Wi and his family builds the Timber Pro logging eeqitment today.
They also made a TL 10,, I owned one back in the sixty's... with a bucket full of wet road base, the thing would fall on its nose. I don't think I could even get into one of those loaders anymore.
Elanman, I'd call up General Gear, http://www.tractorparts.com/allis_chalmers.htm They say they have manuals for the TL20, I know at least last I heard they had at least one in parts too... Awesome machine you got there!
I own two of the TL10's and they use 10w hydraulic fluid,I hope this helps
new member testing Good Day Bean1980;I am new to the group but have owned a TL 12 around five years now. My TL 12 came with a four cylinder gas engine that was hooked to the transmission with an 8 inch rubber tire. This was the Achilles' heel of my TL 12 because you cannot get those tires anymore. I spent a great deal of time and trouble converting it over to a slip spline shaft. Last fall I encountered the same problems as other members of this group, as it stopped moving shortly after I serviced the unit and added transmission fluid.
Does the power steering not work either? Thanks
yes, on my TL 12 the power steering pump is hooked by a belt on the front of the engine. I did loose the power to my hydraulics and transmission. After reading the post from other members I have hopes of repairing the hydraulic pump or whatever problem has caused failure. To add to my story, about two weeks ago I located a TL 14 and purchased it. the six-cylinder engine is stuck but I feel these engines are common so I will probably be in search of a G – 262 in the near future. I have ordered operators manual, service manual, and parts manual.my rationale was to use the forks and new tires on the TL 14. If it is possible to bring my TL 12 back to life I will need to rethink my original plan. I am very pleased with the TL 12 as it has tremendous lifting power and served me well as long as the coupling tire did not tear itself to pieces.
do you still own your TL 12 and how was the Detroit engine coupled to the transmission? I also am curious if anyone was able to bring their TL series transmission back to life without expending a great deal of money?
The trick is you got to get that strainer clean in the bottom of the housing, then you may have to rebuild the hydraulic pump. I still do, it is just connected via a torque convertor. Don't know exactly how they did it all when they did the repower...
thank you iceberg for the information, I have the books for the TL 12 transmission and there's a filter suction screen behind a round metal plate on the transmission that I am going to clean. It also speaks of another filter so I will study the manual closely while servicing the transmission. Here's the good news! I recently discovered the coupler I had built to replace the tire connecting the engine to the transmission had broken inside, causing my transmission to act as if it were not working. I can repair the coupler and consider it a lucky that I did not cause damage to my transmission. Now I will be able to service the transmission properly before I begin using it again. I still plan to repair and use the TL 14 I have recently purchased also. It may not be as urgent now but to loaders will be handy around farm. If I can find a G – 262 engine for an affordable price I may just swap out the stuck engine in the TL 14.
I have a TL14D. The loader will move but the power steering does not work. I have cleaned the strainer and replaced the filter that is under the seat and put in new oil. What else could my problem be?
Our business currently has two Tractomotive TL-12 / TL12 loaders that we have retired. One was still operations when last parked (over a year ago) and the other was purchased for parts. I know the operational one does have a gas engine but is originally a TL-12-D / TL12D / TL12-D model. Does anyone know where the best place to list these for sale would be?
They are neat loaders for what they are but they're slow, awkward and hard to get parts for. I'd look on facebook marketplace and see what other similar stuff is selling for and list it there Thanks Erik
bumping this. I have a TL12 that's got a 1970 318LA gasser stuffed in it. Needs tires and every linkage possible, and seals all around. But it's fast and has some grunt. THe front planetaries are cooked, to the point they're getting sloppy and leaking out the center on the face of the axle hub. I plan to run it until the wheels fall of. Currently battling a Hough H50-D along side it. Great old equipment. Nothing is made like these old brutes in todays world.
I own TL-12 SN #50 and I owned 2 TL-20D's. One is gone and one is waiting to go to scrap also. I bought my TL-12 in 1979 at age 17. It was working in a scrap yard near Howell MI. It had it's original bucket and a reworked set of heavy duty forks that fit in place of the bucket. I found it had a damaged torque converter when it got stuck repeatedly. We found that the engine crankshaft moved in and out of the engine at idle. It had a bungie cord as a spring on the carburetor throttle linkage. I learned they were over-riding the governor so it would drive better. It wouldn't start that winter due to oil being too thick. The crank broke in the spring. I found brand new thrust bearings lying in the bottom of the oil pan. The engine was an industrial version of the WD tractor 225. The crankshaft was different in that the harmonic balancer end was longer to support the multiple sheave pulley used on the loader. The transfer case was made by Allison. It utilizes a bolted together aluminum torque converter. The forward and reverse clutches are simple "cone" clutches that are common to hand clutches used on PTO's and older equipment. Adjustment is done by finding the spring loaded plunger that locks the adjustment plate with it's 3 roller equipped fingers from rotating. The plunger fits into a series of holes drilled into the clutch plate. Pull out on the plunger and rotate the assembly to adjust the clutch. The engagement force needed on the operator's clutch lever should be between 40 and 60 lbs. You'll understand why there is the foot rest on the floor when pulling on the lever. The torque converter cost $2200 in 1980 plus bearings and seals. There was a reground WD tractor crank available locally for $300 and an industrial crank for $550. Add the gaskets and the like and it was $3K to fix a $2500 machine. We didn't have the money and the business needed the machine. I was talked into fitting a different engine and automatic transmission in place of the 4 cylinder 225 and Allison torque converter. This was possible as the torque converter bolted to the transfer case input gear and the input gear was supported by multiple bearings. I bought a Ford C-4 and 240 engine. I removed the Allison torque convertor and used the car driveshaft to make a short shaft that bolted to the input gear. The main hydraulic pump had been driven by the crankshaft through the hollow torque converter and transfer case input gear. I made a cover plate for the pump mounting pad and relocated the pump to be driven off the front of the engine. The transfer case fwd/rev clutches needed to be adjusted to more than double the engagement force due to slipping due to the added power. The snap rings holding the clutch support bearings in the transfer case failed after a number of years. I milled off the bell housing while repairing the T-case as it was in the way for the radiator. Rather than risk damaging the clutches again I made a shift linkage that allowed using the C-4 transmission's gear selector. I had concerns that continual shifting would wear out the shifter. The selector lever is located where the original clutch lever was located. I made a guide for the lever that has selectable stops to prevent accidental shifting into park or lower gears . Those locations are selectable by flipping a hinged stop out of the way. It took 3 of us with prybars to pop the clutch in with much force as needed to reduce clutch slip. The 240 engine had too much compression. The resulting detonation would occur while digging at elevated throttle levels. I wore out 2 240's in 3 years of nearly daily use. I built a low compression 300 with 7.6:1 C/R. I only had the Ford-o-matic vacuum advance distributors available/known to me. These are wrong for a machine of this type as vacuum is lost at high throttle settings. When throttle is used under load, power is lost due to the drop in vacuum retarding the ignition. I built a distributor that has mechanical advance using a Chevy 250 or 292 shaft assy and welded an aluminum pipe to the Ford distributor body to make more space for the flyweights. Now the engine would slip the clutches even more readily. I pulled the transfer case after I realized that I could simply eliminate the clutches entirely. They and the aluminum clutch housing were removed. I made a disk that bolted in place of the one of the clutches and purchased a female splined tube that was for ag tractor PTO use. I machined the tube OD true to the ID and welded it inside of the new plate that bolted in place of a clutch. Cured. The engine cooling radiator was relocated behind the cab due to the placement of the hydraulic pump and desire to try to keep the machine as short as possible. I initially tried electric fans but had nothing but problems with them. I set up a steel bar on 3 self-aligning bearings as a line shaft to drive the cooling fan. The power steering pump from a large truck with built in reservoir is now used and adjusts the fan belt. Coolant is transported from the engine to the radiator via coolant pipes made from exhaust pipe cut and brazed to create the offsets needed. Transmission cooling is done with 2 transmission coolers mounted to the radiator. The carb is a single bore Holly with a Hoof velocity governor to limit the engine to 3000rpm for the hydraulic pump. Exhaust was ducted around the air intake pipe to eliminate icing issues. I built a frame extension to mount the main counterweights. I rebuilt the rzepa drives and knuckle pivots when the axle oil seals started leaking and one knuckle got noisy. On this series of axles, the bearing cage for the balls in the rzeppa drives are kept in alignment with a pin that centers in the axle shaft, passes through a spherical cup and then into the outer hub. The pin pushes the spherical cup around as the knuckle pivots and the cup pushes the ball cage and balls. Ours broke a pin and the cup. I made a new cup on a mill with a dividing head and a boring head in the spindle. I made a new pin with its spherical ends and spherical boss for the cup out of stainless using form tools on a lathe. There are stop bolts on the steering knuckles to help prevent this damage. If the steer axle is popping while you're turning and rolling - you're turning too tightly for the rzeppa joint. Make sure that the grease fitting in the end plate of the outer hub is kept greased with long fiber wheel bearing grease. The grease fittings are often broken off as they stick out. The repowered machine has more power available. Most digging is in 2nd gear. The larger hydraulic pump allows really snapping the bucket back quickly for leveling off a bucket full of material when desired. I've rebuilt the steering gearbox after an employee broke the recirculating ball nut on the column shaft. A new shaft was $290 in 1980. I've rebuilt the steering hydraulic cylinder and the linkage yoke. I've replaced the tubes and shafts on the lift cylinders. I've rebuilt the tilt cylinders. The prior owner(s) had not maintained the gear oil in the differentials and the hypoid gears had been worn knife edged. I rebuilt both differentials and after 15 years I replaced the front diff with one purchased from Conroe Tractor in Texas. The first C-4 transmission broke a band after 14 years of daily service. I had it rebuilt by Weller truck Grand Rapids MI. I told the technician I wanted every bushing and seal replaced. I didn't care if it cost $800 instead of $400. The technician said I use go-no go gauges. I told him I didn't care. I wanted the transmission to be rebuilt as good as possible. I made a new drive shaft using a C/V joint as the drive shaft with 2 U-joints wobbled under load. The technician mucked up the transmission job. Didn't even replace the output yoke seal and bushing. He claimed that he did but he had not. The transmission was so tight that the engine wouldn't idle. The idle speed screw needed 6.5 turns to idle. I complained and was told to run it. He claimed to have test run the transmission on a dyno. In 15 minutes of idling, the transmission's new paint was smoking. I called and was told to run it. I installed a transmission temp gauge. 325 degrees in 10 minutes of idling. I called Weller. Told me to run it. Now 400 degrees in 20 minutes of idling. I called and asked when he could make time for me to bring it in. I was told emphatically - I TOLD YOU TO RUN IT! The transmission quit working with 3 hours of idling and some light short term use. The technician now refused to warranty claiming "abnormal use". Rather than be without the machine waiting for a second rebuild - I bought a used transmission for $125. It worked just fine for 18 years. It broke when I was working in the woods on a very severe grade. I ran over a bush and broke the brake line. The engine stalled due to the severe grade effecting the carburetor function. Sans brakes, machine began accelerating down the hill toward trees. I got the engine restarted and the transmission engaged. The impact of suddenly going into drive broke the transmission internally. Salesmen for Weller Truck have stopped by multiple times over the 35 some years since the failed transmission rebuild. They want to sell me parts and service. I ask them to warranty the junk rebuilt transmission I still have sitting in the rack. They won't.