The project is begun. This mess is finally out of the mud behind the barn. And such a mess it is: By best guess previous owner had inventory from Bobcat or a local small machine sales yard available! Teeth are WAAYY too small!! Cutting edge appears to be old motor grader edge. 1/4" sidewalls, moldboard will need scab in on floor as cracks and worn spots besides the scuff shoes. And YES, that is how I knew about bucket sidewall holes from teeth, my doing.
Started axing on the floor of the old bucket. Scab upon scab upon scab of steel. Going to end up cutting all away and installing a new 3/8" floor then wear straps on that. Hoowee I bit off a lot here.
I think I had about 40 hrs into the floor/heel repairs on my bucket on the 941 this past fall. How tight are your pins in the pin bosses? A year ago I welded up the ID of the pin bosses on my bucket & installed new pins/ bushings & it is nice & tight now. That took another 20 hrs. Keep the pictures coming!
Upper pins are great, lowers not so good but better than the MP bucket. I may have to build a alignment jig bore out and weld in bushings. Pins in the bucket are fixed in place once installed, actually roll in the lift arm eyes and those bushings are pretty good for a forty+ year old machine.
Here is how my bucket pin/bushing replacement went last winter. My pins are fixed in the bosses as well & pivot in the loader arms & top linkage. HeavyEquipmentForums
I remember that post too, inspired me into working the scrap I have!!
Here is the thread from when I worked at rebuilding the bottom of the bucket at a later date, following the pin/bushing work. HeavyEquipmentForums
Didn't know if you'd given up the idea of a bigger dozer/loader than your current rig dmiller. https://springfield.craigslist.org/hvo/5961987721.html 977 CAT You were looking at a bigger allis weren't you? This one's in Ava mo. Says he's mostly done with a engine replacement- $5,000 It might handle that 4 in 1 bucket a little better, it would be heavier than your current loader wouldn't it?
No I've decided and set enough cash into this one to keep this lone project do not need another. Still have a Allis 16B I am keeping an eye on but this will be my lone loader. Stopped by the steel supplier as I went to donate platelets yesterday. They have a odd assortment of AR400 in stock, strap lengths, smaller sheet plates so I am going back with what the bucket had originally. 1/4" mild steel sidewalls will remain, I am thinking I will just section in the holed side instead of sheeting both, 3/8" or 1/2" AR for the floor sheet with 1/2"x5" & 6" skid straps 1/2" on the pin heels. I have the cutting edges, can reman the sidewall edges with smaller edge(Like on skid loader) as 3/4"or 5/8" instead of the 1" I have and do not want to ruin while using a full 1" for the floor edge. Going to have to section the moldboard floor and lip to the cutting edge as it has been hacked up too. Probably cut it back to where the floor had rubbed thru and gotten into the mold board bottom. Will be a little more than your 40 hours metalman I suspect!!
DMiller, Best of luck to you with the bucket re-build! I look forward to the progress photos !
Used up what little gas my gas axe had left. Will need get tanks filled Friday as start night shifts tomorrow but made a little headway. Inner bottom structure is in decent shape, was full of dirt/organic matter(set afire twice) but otherwise not even too much rust. Tanks next then work to finish the hacking and then scrub the welded on pieces remaining off. Center row support evidently had been welded to floor sheet thru pocket holes in the sheet. Were under the strip skid shoes. New welder is a dream come true!! Set a pad eye for maneuvering the bucket, is SLICK as to welding with!!
When I was doing the bucket repairs on the old 941, the bottom wear plate that I was taking off had some seams that ran from front to back that were welded solid......I think 2 or 3 places. I used carbon rods with compressed air for the removal of mine old plates. Glad to hear that your new welder works good.........It will get a workout on this project for sure.
I got further today, used LOTS of gas to get it this far, near to out AGAIN!! Will need to work that out and continue to section out the old cutting edge and cut the moldboard for sectioning at the edge. Considering just dropping out the entire edge section with the mutilated end of the moldboard still attached. Have a cold saw for steel that will make short work of the major length of cut on the moldboard then finish with gas axe and cutoff grinder. What is left of the OE cutting edge is less than 5/8" thick, was originally 1".
Progress! Glad the weather is cooperating. Even though the new site allows much larger photos, you might consider resizing them out of courtesy to those of us who can't get real high speed access. It took nearly 5 minutes just to load one of the bucket photos! Though I could count the bristles on your wire brush. Didn't bother with the second photo.
Will keep that in mind. On the Allis Forum I have to keep them smaller.
These may be better!:
Looks like you have a lot of the cutting n slashin done now! I see the Allis has a double bottom on the bucket with space between them, if I see it right? On the 941 it was just 2 layers tight together. Wonder why Allis did it that way?
Yes, way better! Wish I could convince certain software companies to do that, or Web page designers. There's lots of us just can't get true high speeds. I'm getting ready to put up a 60 ft tower and pay about $100 to get up to 3 m bits per second, which is still slow.
Was noting the difference between the two as well. As memory serves some of the older IHC had a square flat bottom as well, may have just been engineering doing what they do. Jim, I am on DSL here was on satellite but that was killing me was so slow/expensive/data limiting and went back to landline. Have to add, my MP bucket currently on the machine is also double bottomed. May have just been a theory as to wear.
Junk cutting edge and first 10" of moldboard came off today, moldboard was hacked and jacked up almost to back edge of old cutting edge remnant so decided just to lay in a new piece of floor. Will order that tomorrow, just 3/16 flat sheet. Corner bits or what is left of them will get welds ground off to remove them as just too much chunk then can start setting up for side panels and beginning the floor sew in top and bottom. Still lots of garbage to work off the bucket but getting there as well a few of the inner bottom braces welds were cracked.
Have the bucket inside for now as wet weather threat for the weekend. Did manage to grind into and overlay the cracked welds in the inner bottom supports. Laid in a little weld in my own gas axe gouges and in the arm pin retainer heads to refill where the square pin heads wore for years too. Need a day with decent weather to drag back into the rocks and hack those remnant end bits off, I get a little deeper with fixes as I go.
Will be adding some strake steel supports to sit the new moldboard lip upon to tack it in place after get the corners cleaned off. Once the moldboard is where it need be(square to supports) then I will situate the cutting edge and center. Get it laid in then the bottom sheet gets installed and bucket flipped over. Will be turned over at least twice so can section out the sidewalls add the new inserts and wear plates then roll back over for the wear shoes on the bottom and side edges. Will be a few days!! Aint pretty but is what I have to work with!
Keep those pictures coming DM. Do you have anyone local that can sandblast the work area on the bucket for you? On mine it sure made the job a lot easier.
I could only wish on the blasting. I can rent one, $175/day plus media and do not have compressor to feed it so would have to go there too so will have to make do rusty or at least rust converter and weld thru primer for the inner bottom. These are the pin retainer bosses and the backside of my MP:
Hello D Miller, I hate to see that new garage door get dirty , you need a large wire grinder to clean up parts . I did a repair on my bucket , welder put a new back edge on, it had a air space also , have fun , sam .
Another view of the pin size/style: I have a cup brush set for both the 4.5 and the 7" grinders, just not in the pictures. I am saving that work for once back OUTSIDE!! Yes the shop is fairly new still, and clean but that as all know will not last long!
Spoke to a fella yesterday that does work at the facility I work in, he is a grade contractor and machine operator. He stated the 953 series loaders have a similar set up on the buckets with a air spaced double floor, he did not know why either. Makes for a nice flat bottom for grade work is one comment he made as you know when the shovel is flat to surface.
If you have a decent pressure washer, you might look into a sandblaster attachment for it. For about 1 day's rental you could own a setup. https://www.amazon.com/Pressure-Washer-Industrial-Sand-Blast/dp/B004GQLDR8 plus a nozzle sized for your washer Not near as quick as a pressure pot, but you can work at your own rate if time's free. Greyson
Kinda like it all but the wet part. Will have some areas that will suck in that water and could be problematic when go to repaint as the inner bottom cavity as I know won't be able to fully seal it tight. This is a chunk of the old cutting edge showing the lip of the bucket moldboard I gave up on, are two pieces of the edge with this the worst. Was little left to actually work with considering the need to cut it back from the weld. Appeared to have been rubbed raw thru the original weld and rolled back off the edge at the weld line for the grader edge add on.
That sandblasting attachment looks good to me. You could always burn a few "vent holes" in the places that trap water & give it a few days to drain/dry out, then weld the holes back up. Sandblasting sure give an opportunity to do a premium job. Looks like the old cutting edge was off of a skid steer? So, you have plates to go on both on the bottom & top surface of the bucket then? What thicknesses are you planning to use? Here is my 941 bucket once it was blasted.
Bucket moldboard flows over the cutting edge on original design and will fit a panel to mimic that. Will be 3/16" inside 3/8" AR bottom sheet sandwiched around the 1"x10"x 78" cutting edge. Pretty certain the edge previous repair was grader edge with either medium duty backhoe or small loader teeth added to it, all weld ons. Overall I think the Cat layout is a better choice but did not want to have to re-engineer mine to that level. That curved weld line is the inside sheet remnant from the bucket, on the old AC's the sheet ran to within 6" of the cutting edge lip where was welded at rear of edge to underside and to the top at the front then the bottom sheet applied over that with a rough two inch overlap. Still considering a blaster of some sort, just may not make it for this piece, budget got a little crimped recently.
Well it did not warm up much as they said on the news of last night but I moved forward. You can all laugh real hard but I got angry at myself, kept flogging on how to salvage out as much of the side panels as could then just said the hell with it and hacked the bent up pieces of scrap out. I did get fairly far along tacking pieces into place.
Looks good so far.......good progress today........what thickness are the end plates?
End caps are just 1/4" as were the originals, they will get 1/2" AR leading edged. Will be a 1/2" rub edge along side at bottom also to mate with the rub shoe 1/2" runners. I am thinking the bucket floor at one time may have been 1/4" but all is down to 3/16" from time. Next week hope to get the zipper closed across the front floor extension, get the relief cuts made for the cutting edge and get it cut to length, situated and with the off falls to be the side uprights. Once cutting edge fit and fixed to moldboard the floor sheet will go on. at least 15 maybe 18 holes to punch thru for pocket welds with a full radius weld. Last pieces to go on will be the pin cover heels and the teeth from the 955.
If any are interested, the old gent I bought my cutting edges from has offered me the remaining four he has. 1" x 10" x 96" rusted but still new. Pre-punched holes I believe are for Case series tractor ground engagement pieces. PM me if any interest. His big plan was to use them as frame for a hydraulic press, has had them he noted for three decades.
Here they are: Are CASE Wheel loader edges, confirmed with the guy that had them. Bought them at a MODOT(Missouri Highway Department) sale some years back. Had them buried in the barn and tired of trying to work around them so My Turn!!.
A little further along. Lots of stitch welds going back and filling in between. Eyes not so sharp as to the puddle anymore but welds still passable for a antique like me! Will move to set floor plate next then flip the bucket for finish of long welds cheek plates and side cutting edges then flip it back over for skid shoes and pin heels.
Too wet for fence work today plus nursing some 'Extra' poison ivy I got into, between that and Green Briar or the multiflora crap I am not certain that nature hates us!! So I got the gas axe fired up cut my pocket holes rust converter on the inside of the bucket then set and tacked the floor sheet in place. Lots of rod to use tomorrow IF does not dry up enough to stretch some wire.
Well not the prettiest root pass welds I have ever made and due to go back for second pass but looking better. A lot of small considerations to attend to but should finish up before I go in for surgery. Probably add lift eye provisions on side edge reinforcements, have the teeth to situate and weld in, then flip it back over to do more work under. Was hinted by a comrade that I may not need the skid shoes on the floor plate with it upgraded to 3/8" AR. His take was OE was 1/4" with 1/4" skid shoes, I could not remember that far back!
This one did not copy over, was this afternoon. Corner cutting bits are just sitting on the edges, need be dressed a tad before set them permanently .
Looks like it is coming along there DM. A lot of hours go into a project like that when there is a substantial amount of welding involved. What are you going to use for shanks & teeth?
Lots of time and effort!! Is good practice for my welding 'skills'. I have six series M shanks from a 955H that was being parted out. Not the best but still good and decent as to teeth. Have no bolts and no intent on bolting them on, will be welded in place as I feel this is the last makeover for this bucket! The side shanks I could not locate so will do with the welded on cutting edge pieces for side edges/teeth.
On my 941 the tooth shanks were bolted on & many had come loose over the years & others scabbed weld on here & there, but with poor quality welds. When the bucket was being rebuilt last fall after sandblasting, I gouged out the worst welds on the shanks & laid some more flux core in to help the cause. I am sure you will appreciate the GP bucket rebuilt when finished. It will likely be 30% lighter than the MP bucket?
Even with all the added steel I am thinking almost half that of the MP. One seriously heavy pile of iron! I believe I came up with a guy to sandblast the entire bucket, have to haul to him and uncertain the cost as yet but to make it look a taste better may be worth it.
If you are able to get the blasting done, that will really enhance the finish product for sure. I was glad to get mine done & it sure made the welding go better too.
One forgiving aspect of 7018 stick, knock the larger scale and paint off burn away rods and deposits most often roll to top with slag. Field welded WAAY too long!! Wire is neater and certainly quicker but has to be VERY CLEAN!!! Done gas, GMAW, MIG welding for a long long time, never sat down with a TIG gun and may not ever get that chance but the new suitcase welder could handle that! Guy is supposed to call me back but no word two days.
Bucket looking good, not sure if I'd put that much effort into a hobby machine bucket but who am I to talk haha!
Have about a grand in steel and weld supplies, cheap for a GP bucket that will pin on my antique. Spent too much for the donor but found it has newer rails even as the shoes are crap and got a decent trans from it to keep mine working while I work on the one I removed. I will still have the MP if so choose to use it or to go with it if I sell the whole magilla once I am as done with it as figure I can get!
BTW I saw the original post in my email before you edited. The old donor the bucket came off had sat for at least five years, plus had been worked in and around the Lebanon MO area, very aggressive low pH soils there. Yes it is a 'hobby machine' but is all I have and can afford. Still works as I need it to.
I went to make a small change but ended up deleting everything I wrote, pecking away on a "smart" phone... Interesting to see the affects from acidic soil! I'm with yah, everything I own Is old and wore out but does what I want to do, with a little up keep of course. Best thing is it's all paid for!! You think the same as I do, I don't mind putting hours of labour as long as I'm not sinking in to much money that I won't get back out of it (working it or selling) You could sell that bucket for a fair amount once you're done with it!
You bet, all paid up just time and effort now. All I want them to do is outlast ME! May not be too hard given all that is going south right now!
Couldn't stand it, had to do SOMETHING!! Got off my arse and measuring/situating then took my widdle 20#r and drove them into place. Just tack welded for now but are where they will remain. Do not look bad for 955 early series H teeth on a Fat Allis!
Nice to see some more progress taking place.......... Does the welding start tomorrow?
I am supposed to be laying low until AFTER neck surgery next week. Just cannot stand sitting and twiddling with crap not getting something done. I have a haircut first thing in morning then wife goes for the same at 11, she will be out of my hair long enough for me to accomplish some work! Have second passes to make on sidewalls, side braces, get root passes made on teeth then can quit for another short span.
Bucket is looking great! I know it's hard to lay low. Don't over do it! How long are you layed up after surgery? Hopefully mended up for summer. DB
Miles told the me the canned response, would be good to go after three weeks. What he did not say but his associate did was I need to let the bone grow into these before I start side pressuring them. So his take at least eight weeks. By my last work I am thinking at least the 8 maybe ten.
A pipeline or shipyard welder I will never be but will do for my scrapyard welding.
Hi DMiller, the bucket is looking good , wish I could weld that good . I know it's not easy for a hard working man to sit around and look at the stuff that he wants to fix or repair. Give your self a little time , spend a little time with family and friends, make a list of stuff that you want to do, read a good book. rest up. sam.
Well I crossed that magic line in the sand not long ago, over sixty now so do as I can while I can! I do not weld so hot, do not look too close as has spots where I slipped from the stance I had or fumbled the rod a bit. Is well stuck together but will have comments on quality!! My lack of available positions anymore pretty well limit my all position welds!
Progress looks good DM..........just follow the recommendations from the others & DO NOT over do it once you are back on track! It can wait for you! I am sure those welds will hold ok.
Last of the day, time for a beer. Smile is now semi permanent, root passes on all six completed above. Will need second pass, set the corner bits then flip the big hunk of stuff for the backside finish.
If that don't cut dirt none will! Also gives more 'handles' for the lift/roll chains.
Your work looks great to me! Best wishes for the surgery! DB
Thanks DB, I know quality welds and these aint quite there but the are good for me. I am probably going to leave the big bugger sit for now, weather is changing to colder and that side of the shop is not heated where I use the door for ventilation and smoke exit. Will most likely be sitting just as it is in three or four weeks. Thanks for the wishes.
Most new moms jump out of bed far too soon to attend to others than the new baby. Pretend, for the time alloted by your MD, that you are a new mom, at least for the time you are supposed to be on "bed rest," as they said in the army! It's hard to do, but you owe it to others to recover to 100%! Neill
Thanks for the worry guys. I take it pretty easy as I do this, not straining or lifting just steady burning rods other than the thumping with the BFH to get the teeth set. I want at least a semi-finished product BEFORE I get the knife. IF FOR ANY reason for my own peace of mind should anything happen(Heaven forbid) the wife will have less problem getting the stuff gone.
Had a good weekend, with three days to go I got the last of the side pieces on and currently the bucket is flipped for the last of the underside work where it will stay for a while. Not sure I care for my Pad Eye side plates they may get removed after all the rest of the work is done. Did pick up three 1/2" hook weld-ons to install across the top edge, the one still on is coming off.
Looks like it is coming along there DM. What are the extended side plates with the holes in them for........just pulling/lifting points that may be handy to have? I made a custom center lift point on the 941 bucket to save a cable from wrapping around the sharp bend on the spill plate. It is definitely not a standard Caterpillar component, but it works!
Thought of using them as I do 'Pad Eyes' as we use at work for odd dimensioned materials for clevis sets, have one welded to the back of the bucket now as a lift eye. Most likely will not remain after get the bucket work done and ready for paint then will trim off level with welds. Makes a good lifting access point for chains for now and steadied up the bucket when inverted for the last bottom work.
You all can be mad, start yelling any time, could not stand it and the Doc said was OK, just not to bang my head around!! AND NOT to lift it for at least three more weeks. Final pass welds on floor plate done, pin boss heels on but not complete, have a finish pass for bottoms and weld bottom of teeth mounts then flip it over later, just wanted bottom closer to done!
Looking good there DM......just don't overdo it!
Teeth are all 'glued' down now, filled the old carriage bolt holes some in the edge and have cleaned it up some with weld thru primer on bottom and overlay of rattle can Cat Cream Yellow. Awaiting release from Doc to flip this chunk, probably 3-5 weeks out. Lower back is kicking my lower extremities, his take was the level of arthritis as they found last August along with constant irritating use(I know) and the disc(s) is(are) mad. I am doing core stretch exercises with walking and believe or not Yoga trying to calm it back down. If does not the next step is fusing the lower one or two Lumbar discs. Not the best prognosis but not a death knell either. Tried the Tramadol again as cannot take anti-inflammatory meds for another four months, they had ZERO effect as I thought would from last use try and I am NOT going on Oxy anything, not going down that bad road.
And I know it 'aint purdy' or perfect but it is forty years+ old and been rebuilt by at least two(including me) at least this time closer to right.
Looking good DMiller ! Keep up the good work .
Lookin' good! Gotta feel good to get back to work. Easy does it, though...
Neighbor did me a favor, came up with his tractor and flipped the bucket on its bottom. Welding is done, need to paint rust converter on mold board but paint is also almost done. Again not the prettiest hog in the wallow but will do the work!! Now awaiting when I can run the crawler and mount it up.
Looks good! Bet you cant wait to get her on the machine & try it out.......... Did you brush paint or spray the bucket? What would you say............perhaps a 35% weight reduction from the multipurpose bucket? If I remember correctly, weren't the 7's rated at 2 yds.?
Should be just over two yards heaped by my calcs. Floor is 34" deep, the back just at 48" to top of overspill lip. The bucket should cut at least a third off the MP weight. BTW did take my 210 and fed wire around in the pin bosses, got them significantly tighter but still some loose. MP measures 27" from cutting edge to rear cutting edge and less than 40" overall height. Used rattle cans to spray the bucket, have intentions once get right final repairs done, the replacement rails on and the cage from the donor remanned so it will work better then will use mix paint and paint the entire machine with replacement decals. May end up in the future as a antique show display tractor, AFTER I get done working it. Never did get a shop to sand blast or bead blast the bucket, did find one near to Union MO but they have a three month lead appointment schedule. And YES, I really want to set it to dirt!!
Bucket looks fantastic. Gotta feel good getting out in the shop and puttering. I bought a Texas Blastet- pretty basic sand blasting pot- to clean up some parts. Had a small a small shed to blast in. Looking forward to seeing it mounted back up to the machine. DB
Probably the one aspect of me is a little OC about repairs. I see the shoddy kind of slap together stuff that so many put out as overhauled or reman'd, mostly paint job overhauls and just makes me mad. This old bucket had been so scabbed together as to make it pretty well worthless as a excavation device more like just a dirt pile mover. And yea I did not rebuild the entire bucket just those aspects that needed a lot of TLC. The old Allis has not seen so much attention before I obtained it. This was the donor when I first received it, much of this old machine will reside within the runner.
Y'all can laugh all you want, this was the next step in progress, new bucket hoses with a 'Surprise!' one fitting #12 3/4" JIC Male on the bucket, knew that one as had to re-weld the fitting a few times to stop a leak at an OLD weld, so get to replacing lines and hanging QC fittings for bucket removal with options for accessories on the front and TADA the other damn fitting is #14 7/8" JIC to which NO ONE has a purchasable 7/8"to 1" npt #14 fitting go 12to 16, GREAT. Next step cabbage out the old line fitting, find a 1" npt on a existing fitting and build my own. Lines are on, fittings do not leak(yet) , and Quick Connects are set up to connect the lines together as do not care on bucket.
Next you will have to build or modify a quick attach system for it. Pulling and lining up pins get tiring in a hurry.
I am swapping to a GP due to weight issues, I hardly think a QA system would not be excess weight out front! Will be keeping the MP and it as in the photos shows, needs work while is off and me using the GP. Moved 25-5 ton dump truck loads(five yard) two years ago from down along the highway for better visibility to the drive, actually need to do at least as much again due to the high speed derelicts running a narrow two lane secondary road at flight speeds. Also need he spoil as over cover addition for our ground source system, could stand a one to two foot over cover add while our septic field needs a tad bit for leveling off and the new yard could stand something that will grow grass for the wife to stay busy!
We had this quick attach mounted on our 580 SM Case a few years back & it is really slick. We switch back & forth from GP bucket to forks, to snow pusher, to pindle hitch etc. in a snap. Now I really have you thinking!!
To do that for mine I would probably use the hooks on the QA and pins on the bucket. Slick Idea on the hydraulic pin at bottom does it have a forward stop to keep for having to eyeball the alignment? Saw as I would consider on a 963 in Kansas City last year.
Found the tractor I had looked at on a piece of ad paper that is almost faded away, stand corrected, had the hooks on the bucket just as yours. Call it a Fusion adaptor. A little more than I want to try to build!!
Yes, it deadheads against a stop when you curl the bucket back to run the hyd pins out. Once you get used to it, it becomes 2nd nature to change attachments quickly.
Here is a couple of pics of a home made boom assembly we fabricated for the 580 as well.
I LIKE it!!