My TD7G Dresser is new to me. The blade angle cylinders have some scuffing from contact with the inside edge of the tracks. I initially assumed that wear at the pivot points under the tractor explained the contact. Checking, I find little wear in those pins and bushings. My only theory lies in specifications. TD7E has the same tread, but 1" thinner track pads. What causes it? How do I control it?
Lift the front of the machine up with the blade, check the track idlers, if they're wallowing about in the track frames that could do it. Have a look back at the finals, any interference there? Are the track chains themselves sloppy? Some of the small Dressers used offset track pads, maybe yours aren't trimmed properly.
At the moment, other stuff is apart. Offset track pads? Does that mean not centered on the chain? I don't seem able to make it happen. The scuffing is old. I wonder if it is debris that has stuck to the track, or were an earlier set of chains looser than these? Now there is an inch of clearance, I haven't played with it to see if articulation causes it, or some side hill situation. I will run it a while to see if the damage is ongoing. There is only so much meat in the cylinder wall. I can't have it be an ongoing thing. I've considered adding a pad to the sides of the push frame to protect the hydraulic cylinders. Thanks Willie
I hope experienced people read this. I discovered a potential solution. My track pads are indeed offset. A difference of 3/8" or 1 CM exists between one side and the other. Changing shoes from left to right will create another 3/4" of clearance. Probably swapping the tracks would work. But It'd mean either reversing the sprocket direction of travel, or left on right sprocket/track. Switching shoes might prove easier, or at least less problematic. I checked the parts book. The shoes listed for use with the TD7G are either 15", 17", or 24" wide. I have 16". Are they from a TD8G?
Yeah, swap the track chains from side to side, no need to mess with the sprockets or anything else as long as the chains are installed going in the correct direction. Shoes could be aftermarket.
I was wrong again. Further measurements were my far sightedness coupled with a weird little tape rule with metric on one side of the tape, SAE on the other. The shoes are indeed symmetrical. It appears to me that no adjustment would prevent this. The track (center to center frame spacing at the rear shaft cross member) is fixed by a notch in the shaft. The front cross member pivots in center, but is fixed in width. The obvious wear to cylinders is old. I'll run it to see if any new wear happens. If it does, I think I'll add blocks to the push frame to protect them from the track. If these shoes are 1" wider than designed, it moves the edge 1/2" closer to the cylinder.
Update: I pulled the pins at the C frame, and dropped the back end. Pins look to be new, I think the moving bushings in the C frame are likely new. The four bushings in the mainframe are pretty bad! The parts manual doesn't offer these. Am I down to finding a machinist? Is there another solution? Willie
Probably didn't come with bushings from the factory, have to repair...
The temptation is to replace the ears on the tractor frame. Then machine work could be done in a shop instead of under a tractor. I have a grease pit, so it's stand up work, but I haven't found anyone able to do it local. The far away people don't seem to return calls.
Don't know how much work it is, but in the parts book I looked at, it seemed like the component those were welded to was removeable? Or am I looking at the wrong thing?
I think it can be done, I think it is a very big job to remove them. One of the far away line boring services called today. Travel & work time he estimated at $1200. If it would solve my problem, I feel it seems reasonable. He did say I'd have to remove track frame from one side first. That part seems like a big deal to me. I haven't studied how big a job that is. He suggested I weld the bore, and clean up with a die grinder. As it won't see a lot of hours, he felt it'd likely solve the problem, If it didn't, no harm done, have it line bored. The expander system is still in the what is it you want stage. The new bushing in the C arm on both sides is 1.769" It is nearly round. I asked for a pin 1.765" They say this is non standard. They would have to turn down a larger piece of stock, heat treat, then grind to dimension. If it turns it into a big ordeal I'll live with 1.75. Thanks for your advice. Willie
I heard from the Expander System, a replacement pin tapered on both ends, it comes with female tapered caps, I think of brass. A long bolt passes through the length of it. Tighten the bolt, it expands the ends to fill the void of a worn hole. The not worn center of pin bushed holes in the C arm (push frame) are 1.770. I figured give them .005" clearance, I asked for 1.765". They came back with this is a non standard diameter. To give me this diameter they need to grind down a larger piece of stock, There is an extra charge of $150 per pin. They offer instead, 1.7717. Probably this means .0067 of die grinding to fit. What do you think? Willie
Willie I had same exact that problem on a TD8E. The shim under the front idler was worn and allowed it to tilt towards the cylinder. It chewed up my cylinder bad!!
You caused me to go to the parts book. The section showing front idler shows no shims. A different section shows two different shaped pieces to fill gaps in the frame channel & idler mount. I will go out & study. I think I'm missing some pieces! Thank you. Willie
It was a long time ago. Now you have me thinking they were under the rail. Let us know how it turns out.
Winmill had some parts, better still they are very generous with information. Reggie Lussier is a storehouse of information. At the front of the track frame are 8 strips of steel welded parallel with the track frame. The casting that carries the front idler axle rides on these. Protecting the big stuff from wear, is a series of blocks, and shims. Mine has a lot of slop. Some parts I've bought, others I will build up with weld, and grind. This may limit the track wander. Maybe it is possible to restrict track movement enough to save the angle cylinders, and declare a victory.
Now I know! It isn't dark so early now. I got it out to grade the driveway. Damn these things are fun! I ran it up on a little lump of driveway stone, one front idler was sort of neutral in weight. I stood on the top of the idler, and shifting weight from side to side there is an alarming amount of motion in the front 1/5 of track! Not enough to hit the cylinders, but too close. The other side is a bit worse, but I couldn't get just the right amount of weight off it, I didn't witness the extreme of motion. It appears there are two castings for each idler, They ride between two rails holding themselves in place. It appears either the rails are too far apart, or the "axle" isn't wide enough. In any event there is too much air, not enough iron. I think I'll have to remove the track, or at least the shoes to address the wear.
This looks tricky. The book says I need to shim laterally to maintain placement on the center of each track rail. The adjuster fork, and front idler axle maintain a specific width, I have to shim and use thrust blocks to control this at center. From below, bolts hold wear bars, and shims to maintain correct clearance holding the axle support down on the inboard sides of each track frame. Can I get to these pieces on the engine side of front idler without removing tracks, or at least pads? The master pin must be removed with a special press machine says the manual. Others say heat, and drive it out with hammer and drift. Who's right? It is a lost cause if it does require a special press device.
Willie It was a long time ago but I think we had to bust the track. Not a fun job but doable with heat. We took a steel bar and welded a short and long pin to it. Heat the link and beat the daylights out of it. One guy holds the bar the other hits the pin. Start with the shorter pin for more umpf to break it free Make sure you find the master pin. They come out easier than just any pin. I'm sure others do it differently.
Yair . . . oarwhat is right, don't be concerned about using heat, get it all set up at a convenient place on the sprocket and heat it cherry red. If the worst comes to the worst on larger tractors the pin can be cut between the links but on a little rig I would probably blow a slot in boss of the link, bump it out and on reassembly and fill it up with weld. Cheers.
Please forgive me, I'm ignorant. Aren't chains, and shoes for that matter heat treated? I'm a big fan of a rosebud tip. If God had anything more useful, he kept it in Heaven. I just wish dry ice were as convenient to use. If I ever get all the other issues under control in this machine, I want to cork the grousers. Damaging them with heat is a concern. I know from years of use that manganese steel suffers no harm from welding heat. I've used grouser stock for everything but grousers 45 years. Is it manganese steel the shoes are made from?
When I was test driving this thing I noticed a lot of motion of the front idler supports in relation to the track frame. It was moving up and down maybe 5/8". I don't have an explanation why I didn't put it together that this much vertical motion could translate into horizontal motion. I'm still amazed! Why the idlers hang from the track frame when on a level concrete floor is still a mystery. It seems the front of the tractor should sit on the idlers. Komatsu offers wear bars to adjust the slop. 4 are 1"x 1/2" x 7"?. 4 are different dimension, but they have 4 wear edges to flip. All are tweaked by shims. Dozens of shims at 4 something each together with bars at 50something each didn't make sense, so I cut new wear bars from 3/4" stock. With minor grinding to fit they work perfectly. If everything worked it'd be a simple, if not quick job. remove two track shoes, remove rock guards, remove 20 bolts holding wear bars in place, replace, and reassemble. Except for Murphy's law! Track bolts spin freely in an impact socket. No problem, I'll burn the heads off. Been meaning to repair the hose ends on the acetylene torch. It got left on one day, I'm out of oxygen. Got another tank, bit my torch cart is a wrestling match, I'll wait until there's help. I grabbed a 1" nut, beat it on the 3/4" bolt head, and welded it fast. Impact wrench now works fine. Good technique, till I run out of 1" nuts. Then I build up 6 corners of each head with weld pounding the impact socket while red. 14 track bolts in 1-1/2 hours. The 1 that spun the square nut, and the wrench wouldn't fit, and I welded junk nuts to it to stop spinning took extra time. The rock guards were not coming off! 3/4" breaker bar with 3' cheater wouldn't budge any of the bolts. they are soaking in Aero Kroil. Next week they will loosen. Meanwhile the wear bar bolts will come if I can come up with the right combination of socket, extension, ratchet, universal, light, and mirror. I'm now half way, with the knowledge to do the rest. If this doesn't cure the track hitting the cylinders problem, I'll disappoint Obama, and shoot myself. Willie
Yair . . . Willie B Dunno about the steel mate but before the days of SALT I cut and welded dozens (maybe hundreds) of track links . . . even back then there was a notion that heating links some how did then harm. I certainly saw no evidence of it. Sounds like you are on the right track with making your own wear strips and, as a slight aside . . . Cat idlers could once be assembled in two positions, high for agricultural work and scooping (scraping) and low if fitted with a blade. The machine was much more nimble with them in the high position and a direct drive D6 set up that way became a thing alive. With your tight rock guard bolts and roller bolts try heating the heads as hot as you can get them with a concentrated flame . . . I found a large welding tip worked the best, get them white and almost melting and let them cool out overnight. Cheers.
Thanks for the information, it clears up a concern. I'm always unsure about using heat on unknown steel. A couple rock guard bolts were loose a few weeks ago. My son tried with penetrating oil to work them back and forth. One he loosened, and replaced, the other broke. They have no nuts, they thread into the heavy track frame. I tried a technique I've always used; weld a washer over the broken stud, then a nut to the washer. Usually the heat tries to expand the red hot broken stud. As it has no place to expand, it crushes the stud, then when it cools, it shrinks a tiny bit. Most bolts come out with one or two tries this way. Despite many tries this hasn't yielded. In VT, road salt is incredibly corrosive. As is cow manure. If a machine is trucked on a tag along in winter, or used to stockpile salt, silage, or manure, bolts are really tough. An impact wrench will help by rattling the rust out, here it won't fit.
Stuck/broken track roller hardware is a real pain. Best best is usually to crib the machine up and loosen the track all the way to allow yourself more room to work. Drilling them out while you lay on your back is tough, sometimes we torch them out carefully then chase the threads. Or just blow a hole in them and enlarge the hole with a carbide burr in a die grinder.
Yair . . . I know I'm like a stuck record but I will mention it again . . . measure the bolt length and cut the new bolts off so they are not projecting through the threaded block. Incidentally, the endcap and roller shaft can be welded to the track frame as a temporary fix . . . rough? Hell yes but you need two tractors to pull scrub and you can't have two tractors down while you stuff around drilling out roller bolts that's, a job for next service. Cheers.
10-4. I never thought of welding. I had a clearing project I wanted to do while the ground was frozen. I have a couple acres where a storm took down dozens of pine trees several years back. Except for VT having asbestos forests, it'd be a huge fire hazard. I hoped I could shave the somewhat rotted stumps, flush. I can burn without permit until April first. After that it gets complicated with permits. This the warmest winter I've ever seen. Unless the trend reverses, late February is too late for that to happen. Ground froze 7' deep last year. This year it thaws often, I doubt it will freeze more than a foot. Thanks. Willie
I don't think these are movable up or down. It's sitting over the grease pit on boards. Level, and flat the weight is on the rollers, but the front idler is touching the floor. With the sliding hardware worn, the front idler would just move up 5/8". Tightening the gap, it'll carry some weight.
Right side is done. It was about an inch on right, Now clearance is down to 5/8". Wasn't the clearance supposed to increase?
Both sides done and reassembled. I'll wait for daylight to get it out, and check out clearances. Inside the track frame are a total of 4 wear bars. I made new wear bars from 3/4" thick stock. I had to grind a bit for them to fit. Two outboard I bought new 5/8" thick, and had to shim with lots of shims. One has 8 .030" thick shims behind it. I can't swear to it now, but it can't help but make a difference. These things are not easy to get to! If anybody else needs to do this, I've figured out how to do it. Willie
Yes it seems much better. At rest it's even closer to scrubbing, but space remains constant under work conditions. Both sides near 3/4". Too close for comfort I know. Reggie at Winmill says he feels I'll have to cut the shoes. Another half inch would be nice.