It seems that prices a guy can charge per hour for his machine not only varies a huge amount by what area of the country but, at least in my area, it seems to vary from year to year and even season to season! My main questions really revolve around 4 different machines. I seem to be able to keep other machines as busy as I want. Any input is appreciated! First machine - um, this one's a truck; how much for a single axle dump with a 6 1/2 yard dump bed. Amount per hour? 11,000 lb track loader with 7' 4n1 bucket (Tak 150) How much per hour? It seems I am hired as much to use it as mini-dozer in landscape as much as anything. Amount per hour? 11,000 lb mini excavator with 24" bucket (Tak 145) Obviously has to be hauled to job like previous machine. How much per hour? 19,000 lb midi-excavator with 36" bucket (Tak 175) Have 18", 24", 30" and 36" buckets. Oh yeah, all excavators have hydraulic thumbs. How much per hour? I know this is like the never ending question, but I'll be doggone if it doesn't seem to change every year. I want to stay competitive but I would like to make money too! All requested $/hour would be for machine and operator. Long ago I quit 'renting' any of my equipment for obvious reasons. Thanks in advance!!
This kind of thread isn't productive. There are more lurkers than active members here. IMO, any discussion of prices should be conducted privately amongst members via PM or email. Your competition is reading this thread and is going to undercut you by 10%, no matter what the number is. In the past, there have been threads like this where the customers found the prices (HEF is well referenced for google searches) that members posted and then went back and tried to haggle their fixed bid contracts.
I have a different idea on pricing, I feel if a competitor is lurking, say a cutthroat competitor, if reasonable pricing is disclosed he may see / realize he is working for nothing and get his pricing in line with others. This also seems to help put prices at proper levels for all in the area. Jmo
Thanks for the input. I take no insult from input of any sort. To be honest, it's all good info for me. I'm probably the under-priced guy. My issue really isn't getting the work, but trying to make sure I don't set prices too high for being an admitted perfectionist. I'm turning too much away. I don't want to rip anyone off, but I want to strike a fair balance between my quality work and competitive price.
Well of you feel you are plenty busy and have all the work you want or need. Time for a price increase go up just a little when you get about 70 to 80 percent of what you bid you are almost right on price. I find that of you get every job you bid you are too cheap. Why work your equipment 20 to 30% of the time for free? If you could work 3 weeks out of a month and make the same thing you are now for 4 weeks your just giving your time,knowledge, and equipment away 1 week a month. Just my 2 cents. Hope you find it helpful and best of luck in your quest
Location location, couldn't agree more. Some places have an abundance of heavy machinery, while others, not so much. In my area, it seems every other person has their own personal excavator. Even so, we have lots of guys plying the trade...and while I am at it, type of material one is playing with...at least where I am from (BC - rock). One guy won't rent his machines until he sees what the machines are being used for...if shot rock, bedrock etc., forget it. I've rented machines, hired operators with machines, and I own one...in your weight classes, I'd expect to be charged $800-$1100 per day including move time (for operator and machine). Renting a machine to operate is about half, but one usually needs to arrange moving and fill the tank, which can add several hundred to bill. For a week, one usually pays half the daily rate. Not sure why the fuss about discussing numbers, as several renters list their prices online. I don't like folks playing in the shadows...From a customer perspective, a few years ago, I found it helpful to find prices online. It gave me a baseline of sorts, so when I hired some guy, I didn't get sticker shock, and I knew what I was getting into (i.e. not wasting the guys time). Plus, operators have their prices and they are not negotiable for the most part, unless it is a weeks worth of work. You give them X amount, they will give you X amount of work...give them less, and they will give you less...lol If customers are lurking, it pays to have a good relationship with your excavator operator. Word gets around if you play games. Also, I've been the recipient of free fill because of good referrals.
Yair . . . melli I too thought joispoi was being a little precious. Apart from a few members here who may have their own internal network most folks are anonymous . . . any discussion about rates is irrelevant in the real world situation. I for one would be interested to know hourly rates of various machines in different places in the US . . . if you discount the highs and lows quoted it may well be a reasonable average Another Aussie poster ( Plant Fitter ) has expressed interest in a thread about how the US numbers concerning machinery cost v's hourly rate it equate to our numbers in Australia. Of course at the end of the column should be the owners calculated costs to finance, fuel and maintain the machinery . . . no point in matching the competition if it's going to send you broke. As mentioned, quite a few outfits post rates on the internet and it would be interesting if this thread could grow. Cheers
Equipment cost (both current and replacement) + operating cost + overhead + profit = rate A quick way to tell if you competition is undercharging for their equipment is to compare their rates with the rate you calculate. There will always be bottom feeders who are out there charging pennies to operate their iron and there seems to be a never ending supply. I do combo of hard bid work and negotiated, very rarely do I perform straight by the hour work. Typical jobs range from 1-3 months in one place. I get about 20-25% of the jobs I bid, which tells me I am on the higher end of my competition but I make money when I turn the key. The competition I go up against on hard bid jobs is tight with some bidding jobs very cheap, which is fine with me - let them have it. Hard bid jobs are calculated by the CY, LF, SY, etc. Storm sewer is the easiest to estimate and dirt per CY is estimated per project depending on site conditions, import/export, distance, spec's, etc. I have a flat unit rate for fine grading building pads, parking lots and grassed/landscape areas. Hourly rates - CTL - $85 per hour D5G - $95 per hour 953C - $125 per hour 321 - $135 per hour
Yair . . . thanks CM1995 . Just some general information like that is very interesting . . . of particular interest would be the variation across regions. It will be educational if this thread develops. Thanks again and Cheers.
Thanks again to all. My main reason, I suppose, for asking is that I don't think I've changed rates in 6-8 years. Clearly equipment and fuel costs have skyrocketed in that time. For wear/tear on a machine along with maintenance costs, insurance etc., I was just starting to think I'd just about rather let some of my equipment sit rather than run it for the prices I've charged. Example; I'd only been getting $95 an hour for a 10 ton excavator with me operating it. Like most guys here on their own equipment, I can make it sing without hurting anything but while I was operating I started thinking "what is my time (me) worth" and what is the time for my equipment worth. Since I've been running all sorts of equipment since I was barely a teen, and always had to prove I could operate as well as the seasoned guys, I began wondering why I bothered even owning some of my equipment. One guy seemed offended that I wouldn't run my 100 hp JD tractor with an 8' brush cutter on it for $50 an hour. Granted, that sort of 'operating' doesn't require much skill, but I have almost a hundred grand of my money running through unknown areas and if I rip a tire off or run a limb through my radiator, it's not a $10 patch job like on an automobile tire. When I quit doing any mowing jobs, I could get $40/hr all day every day for a 30 hp diesel front mount Grasshopper with a 72" deck on it. Maybe I'm getting old and penny pinching, but I just can't justify the equipment expense and my operating time at prices I started with that long ago. I've bid 'time and materials' since it seems I'm always asked to do more when I'm on site. I suppose I'll have to move my prices up or just sell off all but what I personally need and semi-retire. Thanks again.
Precious? :cool2 I'm not sure what you're saying there, but if it's a complement then I accept.:drinkup I'm not going to drag the thread out of the dust or name names, but there was a member a while back that experienced real world hardship because of the information that he shared here. I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm just bringing up a little bit of history. There's no playing in the shadows here....aside from the 1,300 + guests who are currently viewing HEF to the 57 contributing members. Here's the current statistic: Currently Active Users There are currently 1368 users online. 57 members and 1311 guests Maybe for some (or perhaps most) it's not a big deal to publish your prices on the net. A healthy discussion amongst professionals is a good thing. I would be interested in seeing this thread in a "members only" area.
Not to sound like a broken record but, to me, it's all good. I understand where you are coming from and take no personal insult. I'm 100% positive I've said things and done things I should not have. If this is one, just let me know. I wear big boy pants (um, and getting bigger unfortunately as time goes on) and am not bothered. I'm just a simple ditch digger trying to make an honest living and now am simply trying to tap into the vast database of knowledge here to see if I could get some direction. If you know of a better route for me to achieve those ends, I promise I'll take no offense. If I asked in the wrong place, I apologize and, obviously, the moderators can move the thread. I'm just really at a loss as to re-learning how to price jobs. Running equipment; check. Maintaining equipment, check. Even fixing 'most' equipment, check. Being a genius on how to bid jobs properly using my equipment, no check.
Yair . . . I reckon you have stated your case very well Allgood and if you haven't changed rates in six or eight years you do need to have a serious look at your costs and where your operation is headed. However as mentioned I believe rates should be established by a realistic evaluation of your running costs rather than a comparison to other operations. After running on the low side it will probably be difficult to lift rates with existing customers and you will need to point out that the new rate is an overdue correction. As an owner operator you should not see your equipment as a means to provide yourself with "a job" . . . it should be much more than that, as you say, you are the are the one taking the risk with wrecking a tyre or a radiator. However as an owner operator the odds of that happening are less because its your skin in the game and, generally speaking the operating costs will be lower in your style of operation than if you were larger and paying help. I still don't see joispoi's point. Apart from folks who are kind enough to post pictures of their signwritten equipment and operation most posting here is anonymous . . . I'm sure if I wanted to I could track (say) Colorado Digger down from the name of his business and quite possibly a polite phone call to his office posing as a prospective customer would get me an hourly rate . . . maybe not, he may not divulge that information. However for the most part I believe it is nonsense to be precious about rates . . . that's how you make your living and you need to get it out there. A feller down the road has a brand new Ford backhoe and I yelled out to him the other day . . . he was putting on the forks . . . "what's the hourly rate on that thing?" "Hundred and thirty two an hour." Its as simple as that. Cheers.
Apart from cost of living variables around the country, and the cost of skilled operators in a particular region, the climate makes a huge difference. Also, it would be interesting to compare variables like property taxes, and Federeal excise taxes with folks like Scrub who live in another country. Here we charge a fair amount more than what CM shared, but he has nearly a 12 month year in which to make money. Where I live we have sometimes as little as a seven month season with which to move dirt due to winter in the mountains. Colorado Digger has been kind enough to share many photos, often working in the snow. Some jobs can handle a fair bit of weather, and some reach the point of diminishing return very quickly when dealing with snow, and especially frost. I'm sure Grandpa knows exactly when to call it for the winter in regard to dirt work. The rental rates from dealers are also higher where I live than in California for example, despite the higher cost of living there, due to the fact that our rental companies have to sit on a huge inventory through the winter, and then often are nearly at 100% of equipment rented in the summer. I set our rates using the criteria that CM mentioned. Knowing ones overhead is the hardest to pin down from year to year as the amount of work and the length of winter can make a substantial difference in overhead. Fixed costs such as insurance, equipment payments, etc. go on regardless the weather. While I don't know what others pay for unemployment insurance, I suspect that the rate is higher in Northern states as winter layoff is the norm rather than the exception. We do a fair amount of it, but I would rather not work by the hour because I feel that what we accomplish per hour is a fair amount more than the average contractor, which puts us into the apples to oranges type of scenario when comparing a less productive contractor to a more productive contractor. For this reason we rely on references and word of mouth, which allows us to charge a bit more per hour than some others. One last comment, good competition is good for the industry. Your competitors that know what their costs are, and what likely pitfalls can be encountered in projects despite the best foresight, will bid accordingly. Those that work too cheap hurt everyone, until they go out of business. Starting a business has such a learning curve in this aspect as it is hard to know what all your costs are going to be. CM also mentioned repair and replacement. For every hour on a machine, if something hasn't been put away for replacement then one essentially starts all over at trade in time, which means that you have basically just bought yourself a job, and not a very good one at that. I am still and constantly trying to live by the lessons that I am learning, though I doubt I will live long enough to learn what I should have learned long ago (slow learner)! This is an interesting thread, thanks for starting it Algood
Yair . . . Good point about the seasons Oxbow . Quite frankly us folks in more equitable climates really have it made. I can't imagine having to work in conditions shown by Colorado Digger and others. This is an interesting thread and hope that others can offer further insights. Cheers.
Ill bite on this, mini exs in my area are from 105-150 hr but some add in fuel. I know I do. Ctl are 50-110hr some plus fuel. The cheap guys are fly by nite tryin to make a extra buck screwin others around. Dump trucks 100hr Midi ex 135-180hr plus fuel I personally charge 105 but im at 120 cause of fuel sure charge. Fuel is 1.40 L right now. And I charge 3-4 hour min depending on travel distance
Link Belt 290 excavator $285.00 / hr Komatsu PC200 excavator $200.00 Komatsu 75UU excavator $125.00 Komatsu 75UU excavator e-tenda hoe $130.00 John Deere 310E 4X4 extenda hoe- $95.00 John Deere 27D mini ex- $95.00 Bobcat 320 mini ex- $85.00 Komatsu PC200 w/ breaker or ripper $325.00 Cat 953C loader - $140.00 Bobcat 864G compact tract loader $95.00 Bobcat864G w/ breaker $175.00 Case 1845C skidloader $80.00 Mack 3650 gallon sewage vac truck $250.00 plus dump fees Freightliner FLD120 dump truck $125.00 Envirosight sewer camera - $200.00 minimum & 90.00 per hour after first hour Cameljet trailer mounted hydro-jetter 40gal/min @2500PSI- $750.00 minimum & 200.00 per hour after first hour Case 560 trencher/backhoe combo- $125.00 John Deere 450 dozer with hydraulic Midwestern sideboom & tail end winch $ 140.00 Labor- 1 manhour (non union or non prevailing wage) $45.00 , after first 40 hrs all additional time is 1.5 overtime rate Labor- prevailing wage -1 manhour $55.00, operator $60.00
2 men talking in the street and a phone call to the office are very simple and straight forward. But, that's not at all what I was talking about. Anybody who calls me on the phone gets my rate over the phone if they want it. If nothing else, it saves me the time from going out to jobs where people can't afford me. If I publish my rate on a public forum or anywhere else, many prospective customers wouldn't bother to call for an estimate because they saw an ad from a competitor that charges $3 less but makes it up on material mark up and equipment delivery etc. Call it precious, call it a business decision or anything else you want. But I'm 100% more likely to get a job from someone who calls than someone who doesn't.
You run your business your way...I have no beef with that. It is none of my business. When I talk of shadows, I am offering my opinion from a customer viewpoint. When someone posts their numbers I am more apt to call them in the first place than one who doesn't. When someone doesn't list their prices, it begs the question, for me anyways, why not? Are they looking to score off me. Call me jaded, but unfortunately, I've witnessed firsthand bs like that. In a tight market, one might get the competition undercutting you, but that is capitalism for you...money goes where it is efficient (supposedly). However, if I see two places with similar prices, I go with the one that has a track record, and good word of mouth. More often than not, I get odd jobs from neighbors of the place where I am. They are cautious around heavy machinery, so it takes a bit, but I see them chatting with homeowner about what I am doing, how much etc...then they work up the nerve to approach me...lol OT - one area that really rankles me is lumber stores...I know prices fluctuate, but with today's computerized world, it isn't all that hard to list up-to-date prices online. I spend hours calling all the stores in my hood to put together a price list...or am forced to send emails to all and wait days to get a quote back.
Hi very good reading, here in New Zealand we have a big spread In pricing too. For me Cat d3c hystat 115$ nzd Cat 311cu 115$ Cat 305ccr 105$ Cat 216 105$ 4x2 dump truck 4m3 105$ 6x4 dump truck 6.5m3 115$ All with drivers and fuel. ( approx 1.35$ per liter) Work all year but gets a bit wet in winter .
With the few prices posted here, it's pretty clear to me that I'm working in the wrong part of the world. These are not my prices, but the advertised local prices: You can hire a late model JCB 3CX with a set of 3 quick attach buckets, fuel and operator (lever puller) for 350 euros per day from one of the bigger hire outfits. A 5 ton excavator with 3 buckets, fuel and operator (lever puller) is about 450 euros per day here. A 26 ton dump truck gets 560 euros a day. How much would that help your business if you posted your rates next to these numbers? :Banghead
Yair . . . Interesting joispoi . Can you tell us what country you are in? The conversion rate this morning is I euro=1.37 US dollars so how does the daily rate thing work? that is to say what is considered a normal day . . . eight, ten or twelve hours? Of course this is another whole can of worms. How are the hours charged? I will not pay $150.00 an hour for an excavator idling while the operator is on the phone or greasing or ducking into town to get a burger. Generally speaking I pay for working hours only . . . exactly the same as my customers do when I am working hourly rate. That is to say . . . they get a page from a proper printed log book detailing what the machine was doing, start and stop times and the total for the day. Cheers.
Right now, I'm in France. Last time I exchanged dollars it was at 1.27 usd = 1 euro.....I don't think it was that long ago. A liter of diesel costs about 1.30 euros per liter. A McDonalds meal costs around 6-8 euros. The day rate is for an 8 hour day, whether the machine is parked while the operator rolls cigarettes or digging 8 hours straight. A "normal day" would be 8-5 with an hour for lunch with no scheduled breaks in between.
Sorry if this looks bad. I'm replying with my phone. About 6 days of heavy rain ALL day is about enough for me, thank you. Anyway, I have a few minutes to reply between doing maintenance and generally complaining. I can't see the previous order of the equipment I listed, but here are some prices I sent out today. The only difference is that I'm reasonably well known for being an extremely accurate operator as well as an extremely efficient operator who can fly when conditions are right. If you want an average "lever puller" with 30 years of experience of milking the clock for average work, I suggest calling the local labor hall. No insult to union guys, but I was "learned" the union way for almost 10 years. The guys who could really operate left and started their own business. Anyway, here is what I can stay busy charging: 5 ton track loader with 4n1 bucket = $85/hr 5 1/2 ton mini excavator = $100/hr 10 ton excavator =$125/hr Single axle dump w/6 1/2 yd bed = $85/hr I do charge from the time I leave my shop until I get back. I do NOT charge for any breaks, fueling time or greasing time. I figure I'm being paid to work. If it's really, really nasty, I generally negotiate upfront about an hour or two per machine (depending on how nasty) for clean up time. On those nasty jobs, possibly because I address the issue upfront, I've really never had an issue getting the money because I show up with nice clean, working, equipment when I start the job. Doing my math it seems that fuel cost is getting me a bit. Not to brag, but I get about half my jobs from word of mouth based on my speed and accuracy on my machines. I welcome comments. I think I've proven I don't upset easy.
Yair . . . its all good Allgood . One question. I would have thought the operating costs of a five ton track loader would be much higher than for a five and a half ton excavator yet you charge it out at less . . . is there a huge difference in finance costs or is it just an application issue? Cheers.
VERY good question! You and I both know my costs are more for what is basically a 100hp track loader. First, and obviously, I burn two or three times the fuel. Then you KNOW the wear and tear expense for a tracked machine that is always running around is going to cost me more. In another thread I've already commented that with only 700 hours on the machine that I'm not at all happy with the cuts and chunks missing out of the tracks. Since it's only been on clean dirt, I don't see any excuses for the tracks falling apart. I bet there is over 90% of the tread depth left, but either track could snap anytime due to the damage they have. When they go, there goes at least $3500! That's besides all the other quick wearing undercarriage. The problem is that it appears as if every other guy outside the city has some sort of skid steer and they work them for next to nothing. That is the piece I think I'm underpriced the most on!
Don't get me started on CTL undercarriages!:soapbox Busted another track on a T250 last week, that totals 7 (IIRC) tracks busted in the last 3 years. At $1200 a piece that adds up quickly. I am rethinking even having a CTL as the cost to operate compared to what it makes per hour is very high compared to a larger metal track dozer or loader.:cool2 In the past I have ran CTL's until the tracks worn down to nothing and replaced them due to no traction. The current problem is busting belts with more than 50% of the tread left. For me it's getting very costly to run a CTL and I haven't even rebuilt the metal part of the undercarriage yet.
Mini Ex 75.00-85.00/HR depending on work load. CTL 75.00-85.00/HR depending on work load. Midi Ex 85-95/HR "" Padfoot BW124 55-65/HR "" Tandem/Tri Axle Dump I job cost at 75.00 but I will only run for my own jobs, I don't hire out at that price, if I have a lot to do I let someone else wear their truck out for that rate, while I burn 10% of the fuel, and less that 10% maintenance cost with a mini for the same rate.:idontgetit 700H 100.00-110.00/HR ZX200LC 155.00-165.00/HR 410G 85.00/HR Mayco C30HD Concrete Pump- 850.00 per day Laborer 25.00/HR I feel like this kind of became a 2 part thread, split between operational transparency, and hourly rates. My opinion on transparency is this: I like to explain to my customers right up front that their project can work 2 ways if they want me to build it, we can share the risk, and I will do it by the hour which puts a pretty low ceiling on my up side (my ability to make a high margin), or we can agree that I assume all of the risk, which they in turn will have to pay for, and I in turn will have the opportunity to do no more than an adequate job, in the cheapest manner possible, and make a large gross margin, as compensation for the risk I assume. The choice is theirs, and the stress for me is a different kind depending on which path they choose, but I always make clear that they can expect me to leave with more money than I showed up with, and that they should expect no less. If a potential client cannot understand and accept that my professional mission is to build interesting stuff, and make as large of a pile of money (but be fair) as possible in the process, they don't need to become an actual client. I don't care if my competition undercuts me, that's their business, but I don't play this game to beat people (anymore), I play this game for the frog skins.
I agree Acivil. I always price a hard bid job higher than what it will take to do it as I am assuming the risk of the customer to complete the job. Risk is a valuable commodity that has monetary value - it's the basis of the insurance industry. If a customer wants a hard bid for a job then they are placating the risk onto me to complete the job for a set price - unforeseen circumstances not with standing and should be spelling out in the contract. I don't need the practice, I am in it to make a buck and provide my services for a reasonable exchange of money. We're real close in rates. I charge $90 an hour for a 420D IT and $90 for a CS533E compactor. Labor is charged at $30, increased from $25 just a few months ago. Don't have a concrete pump so no comment.:tong
Acivil, I agree with you completely, my hourly rates are minimums that I use in bidding a job and also use when asked what the hourly rates are for a certain piece of equipment in my fleet. I make a lot more money (most of the time) when I take all the risk to get the job done for a set amount no matter how long it takes. The customer is not alarmed when he sees my guys taking a break or something similar; time is not an issue to them at that point.
I explain that for a firm price I will take my estimate and add at least 25% be cause I have no xray vision and am out to make some money they generally go for hourly. Any time I have given a firm price they try to add a few extras in lol.
Looking at those prices you be lucky to keep operating
Hmearth, what are your rates?
Sigh.. Just like comparing wages from different areas and different countries, comparing rates is the same. It's like asking, how much does a car cost? :cool2
Quite a spread in rates across this land. The labor portion of the rate is probably one of the biggest differences in the cost. I suspect in the cheaper parts of the country an operator costs his employer maybe $15 per hour, and in the higher priced areas it may be over $85 per hr. That difference is just the beginning, as the areas labor rate influences the cost of repairs, fuel, parts, and other operating costs. The machine may cost close to the same from one place to another, but it is still influenced by the local labor rate, as the dealer has to pay more or less depending on the local rates, so their mark up will change accordingly. Even fuel and oils will vary, both from the local labor and the local tax codes. With that said, one of the biggest factors in operating cost is the hours of use. Ownership costs continue at the same rate per year whether you work the machine 500 hours or 3,000 hours. I do not mean depreciation, as that goes along with the hours of use, but the fixed costs of ownership items. These are just some of the differences on the cost side, then there are the local competitive reasons for rates. If there is little competition compared to the work available, it may be easy to get a good rate. In a saturated market, even with a lot of work available it is difficult to get a rate much higher than the lowest cost offered. Some of us can afford to hold out for their requested rate, and some of us get in positions where they have to take work at nearly any price to keep turning dollars. Too many in that position will spoil the market for the rest. Sometimes the journey from one side of that equation is self inflicted, and sometimes you get drug along for the ride due to things outside of your control, and this can be in either direction.
Reference the comments on the CTL's and costs associated with them. I think when your doing bidded work that requires a lot of work that relates to a CTL's strengths you can come out very well, at least I do. So well in fact that that I am making twice the hourly rate (when you do the math) compared to what I bid. The fact at least here is that the machines are capable of an incredible amount of productivity. Since there are not many CTL's in this area, I can bid as if the CTL does not exist, utilize the CTL and make excellent money. However when your working by the hour many advantages are lost. The excellent productivity works against you, I run at $95 an hour, the productivity of the machine is worth more than that, but getting more than that is difficult. The profit margin is a lot tighter, tighter than I would like it to be when I do work by the hour as a result I try not to work the CTL hourly and utilize the wheeled machine unless it simply is the only answer to do the job. My numbers are very close to Acivil's except the labor which I am at $45.
Hrly rate is a hard topic to talk about I find it highly personal but I will say I have a Deere 329d, 6 ton ECX and a old CH mack and trouble couping with the work in front of me with the rates I see you boy talk about I go fishing saying that the competition in Australia is different I talk to guys who do work for nothing and struggle to scratch it up it depends on if you know what you are doing or not, most of the time the people payyou need to be told what they want or how to do it. In the USA I'm guessing you boys have a lot of guys running around under cutting and taking short cuts I feel for you honest guys. End of the day doesn't matter how much you make as long as your lease payments are made money in the pocket (and a happy wife)
True Jerry. Also fuel varies quite a bit as well. I ordered 500 gals of off-road for $3.42 per gallon - delivered, couple of weeks ago. Last on-road I bought at a station was $3.69/gallon. Also local/state tax differences - income, sales, property, etc vary quite a bit, everyone seems to forget that one.
CTL 120/hr Tandem dump 110/hr Delivery: 100/hr Man hours: 35/hr I don't charge extra for any attachments accept the mulcher which is 170/hr. If there are lots of rocks in the ground and the customer wants me to stir the chips in the ground, then they get to pay for damaged teeth. A lot of guys in this area charge in the 85/hr range, but there are lots of hidden costs they don't say. For example. They charge a day rate for each implement they bring($250/day). They charge for the truck and trailer separately and for every hour it sits on the job regardless of it being used or not. Locally it is common to charge a rate per hole augered instead of by the hour. Three years ago there was very little competition, but that has changed. I have seen at least 4 new Skid steer companies start up in the last year alone. Some have really undercut. One guy advertised at 65/hour for a 70hp CTL. If I had to hire a proficient operator, it would cost me a min of 25-30/hour or I wouldn't be able to find one due to the elevated wages from the Oil industry in Alberta. I raised my prices this year a little due to the increase in fuel costs. Companies that work in the Oil industry are normally higher in price than those of us that don't. It is an interesting market to say the least.
CTL $100 304 CCR $105 312B L $125 CX210 $160 concrete work $185 3 yd loader $125 Cat Challenger and 18 yd pan $240 Man labor $50 Mobilization 0-10 mi $50 10-20 $75 over 20 $4/mi
You are the first I've seen to price your machine to its true value
Hmearth how much does a new Deere 329D cost or a new Cat 303.5ECR in your neck of the woods? What is your price per liter for diesel fuel?
I just priced out a brand new Bobcat E63 with a few common attachments and a couple of Buckets. With my good customer discount the total came to 101K plus GST. Fuel here is running around 1.30/litre which is approx. 4.95/gallon for diesel. Just as a comparison.
I don't know what an E63 costs new but I just had my dealer price a new E45 with hyd. thumb no cab or A/C for $56K plus tax which is high. Cat priced a new 304E with cab and a/c, QC, hyd. thumb, 3 buckets with a new trailer and other stuff for $59.7K plus tax. Deduct $3400 if you don't want the trailer. Bought 400 gallons of off-road for $3.42 per gallon delivered two weeks ago. I passed a station yesterday that had on road fuel for $3.59 a gallon.
Wow, that would help. CM1995. Things vary in price in Canada even province to province, but not as much as Canada to the US. Between duty and the exchange rate, it makes a difference.
Exactly, purchase and operating costs vary widely in different regions and even more so from country to country.
CM1995, I have been following the elevated cost you have with your tracked skid steer. I went over to SC last week and got to experience my first job in sand. It was a real pain in the rear! I dug a few holes to bury some debris and 5' down it was still sand. The dust was terrible too. I put my wheeled skid on the belly pans 4 times. Each time I was able to get it out by pushing out with the bucket. The sand really ate my HP up. I was wishing for another 25 horses in my case. I am actually surprised how the new machines weights are going up but HP and torque are not. They need to drop a 100 hp motor in a 7000 lb machine. Any way I run my skid hard, and I am only on my second set of tires! Turning on concrete takes the most out of them. The only problem I have is flats. I have never bothered to get foam. I just have a good map gas torch and I heat my plug hole cleaner up almost red hot then stick it into the nail holes and then put in a large safety seal plug with the plug tool. I am into about $100.00 in plugs so far. I have had 3 tires that needed patches were double plugs would not hold and I have stuck one piece of steel through the side wall and ruined a tire. Looking at my cost compared to yours, I do not see how the tracked machine is even worth it. I have put that on the back burner. Is there something I am missing? Guys, Take this to heart. It cost at least $400.00 to go rent and use a machine. That should be a min. charge. There are a few guys around here that are running small exs and skids for $50.00 an hour. I would never consider it. Their equipment, trucks, and trailers eventually turn to crap and they can not afford nice new things. Set high goals and go for daily rates. $1000.00 a day is a good goal. IF you put 2 machines on a job even with one operator such as a dump and a skid go to $1250 or $1500 a day. The work is there.
I agree there will always be some *** hole who will say he can do it for a case of beer, but then they call us to clean up the mess and whine that they have to pay, when it could have been done right for less if they didn't try to go cheap. I will not pay you to play, I have enough work I can do for free to not waste my time to bid against some guy who bought a skid steer for $1000 at an auction.
Track loaders are whole different animal when it comes to working in soft terrain or doing dirt work. They put way more power to the ground than a skid steer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvrbRacTEQw&list=UUcXJ1qTZJPMkKXRYULvaT0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TkoPN9uglM&list=UUcXJ1qTZJPMkKXRYULvaT0w
Georgia Iron it just depends on your type of work you do with the skid. A CTL is going to cost more to purchase and operate but will do more, as has been discussed. Now on the T250 I put new rear idlers and a track on back in June, both new rear idlers are showing the beginning signs of scalloping. The sprockets are not worn unevenly, the machine has just broke a 1K hours. I haven't found the culprit yet but the solution this time may be to get rid of it.