http://www.whptv.com/news/local/sto...n-trench-collapse/vmqgUFQafE-fpFKEoMkshQ.cspx
Terrible. I never understand why someone would jump into a 10' deep trench without a trench box or shoring. A trench that deep and narrow looks too much like a grave.
In Nova Scotia there has been some trench collapses invilving deaths. But appairently thes guys have not learned.
In pic 2 why is he under the bucket?....then look at the the material excavated it looks to be less than a metre from the edge of the trench.Is that second machine there to batter the sides?
very well battered back trench, totally free of collapse
I'd like to know where these guys get their hi vis and hard hats, it looks likethese guys think they will replace shoring. If there is no risk why shore the pipe work? It amazes me how people think they are safe dressed up like a teletubby. The worst thing is we all pay for this stupidity through hi insurance premiums and rediculous red tape to make it safe for people who should not be there in the first place.
I'm trying to figure out just what's wrong with anything in those pictures. Can someone tell me? Or are we just going to get a bunch of armchair quarterbacks?
all the pics look to be showing safety awareness apart from the guy kneeling beneath the excavator bucket
The guy on his knees is actually not under the bucket. The slops are suppose to be on a 45 degree angle and these are about 70. The photo of the trench box has the cutting edges under minded and are about to shear the remaining bank off.
There's nothing really unsafe with any of these pics IMHO.Just maybe a little laziness[read that cheapness] not widening the trench enough for a better box fit.
If you are in a traffic area, reflective vests are required. If you have overhead work a hard hat is required. These are OSHA standards. 1923.651
Several items that I see. 1. Only mininum number of employees in the trench.....(too many guys standing around in trench) YES this is a OSHA reg. 2. No heavy equipment operating or other excessive vibration source with men in the trench. The excavator needs moved out of harms way. 3. With the excavator there running, there are harzards being introduced. CO kills. Where is the air handler and air monitor? Where is the trench/hole watcher? 4. No barricades or stop logs for the machines. 5. Trench looks longer that 25' so you need two ladders or two means of egress. 6. Poor boxing. improperly postioned and not backfilled on the sides 7. Spoils improper placed. Should have spoils on the otherside so for rain water is channeled away from the trench. 8. Improper sloping. I would call this C soil for it looks pretty loose. 1-1/2-1 or a 34 degree slope. 9. And lastly, this is an assumption, no CP invovlement here.
Is the second machine there to place the bedding material?
That would be my assumption. Not sure how you get bedding in the trench without using a machine (that vibrates). Although I don't see a bedding box.
I have no problem with personal protective equipment being used by trained personell, but it really gets to me when academics and rubber neckers turn up on a work site, meandering about in hard hats and hivis thinking they are safe and can pretty much do what they like. no amount of hi vis, or hardest hat, best H&S plan is worth a dam when you step out in front of a loaded dump truck, because you didnt know a loaded 50 ton dumper has right of way and needs a lot more stopping distance than a prius. average joe has no perseption of what you cannot see from inside an excavator cab, hi vis, hard or not if he gets in the swept path of the counterweight or the wrong side of the boom theres going to a problem. An idiot isnt any smarter if you can see him, and they are certainly worse off if wearing earmuffs and unable hear you or approaching equipment. Corperate safety programs are usually run by university graduates from health and legal industries, they have learned to formulate forms, audits, reviews, and god only knows what else to cover managements and their butts in the name of safety. these things do not make our work places safe. allowing only trained personell who are there to perform their specific tasks onto a work site is the best start.
Just pull the men out of the trench while laying the bedding.
We have students working as interns with our safety people. A LOT of the safety people that I work with are CSP's. Extensive schooling and even more CEU's to keep up with thier credentials. I am in maintenace and I attend at least one class a month on saftety. These are anywhere from a 1 day class to 5 day classes. We also have also have CP's in trenching, fall protection, confine space and they are to STAY on site while those activities are in progress. Safety does work if it is a top down agenda.
The top pictures look like PVC sanitary sewer and the other pics are reinforced concrete pipe. (storm drain) I don't know how one does that kind of pipe work without a pipelayer in the trench.
Monday morning Quarterbacks always have the answer, maybe not the smartest one, but they have the answer. I'm sure one will be forthcoming.
Ok, I am going to assume that you are talking about me..............So I'll bite the bait. I am not a conformist. I am not anybodys boy at work. I dont apease just to be in with the guys. I am not always liked and that is okay with me. With my crew, it is done right and it is done safe, I dont care how many years you done this or that. I know right from wrong. This isnt rockect science by the way. There are some people that are "know it all" because they claim to have laid 1000 of miles of pipe or operated this or that machine all of thier lives, drove millions of miles and done it all. Yet, on the same token they dont know what the proper slope or step should be, cant do soil testing, dont have CP's on site, cant do a proper pre-trip, cant read a load chart, or say it takes too long to cut the ground out more. Sure there are some difficult jobs on having the room to slope or step properly, but this one in the picture sure doesnt look like one of those scenes. Look at the photo's. There are so many things wrong here. The second picture has two excavators that arent even running and are pretty dang close to the edge. WHY not park them futher back. The first photo with the machine close to the edge looks to me dumping the bedding. Why have all those men in the hole when this is going on? I dont see any slings, chains on any concrete pipe? So I am going to assume they are not using the machine to lay the piping. You can lay bedding without men in the hole with a machine (Yes I have done it). Climb out the hole, lay the bedding move the machine and re-enter the hole. Use shovels and compactors to set the bedding. If the pipping is too heavy to handle, and men has to be in the hole, BOX the trench properly, SLOPE the trench properly, STEP the trench properly. Please tell me you dont find any safety concerns in these photo's and you perform trench work.
looks like a good ditch to me, fmd, you need to get out a little and see what a class c ditch really looks like
Look at the photo's. There are so many things wrong here. The second picture has two excavators that arent even running and are pretty dang close to the edge. WHY not park them futher back. The first photo with the machine close to the edge looks to me dumping the bedding. Why have all those men in the hole when this is going on? I dont see any slings, chains on any concrete pipe? So I am going to assume they are not using the machine to lay the piping. You can lay bedding without men in the hole with a machine (Yes I have done it). Climb out the hole, lay the bedding move the machine and re-enter the hole. Use shovels and compactors to set the bedding. If the pipping is too heavy to handle, and men has to be in the hole, BOX the trench properly, SLOPE the trench properly, STEP the trench properly. First of all, it's a still photo. We can't tell if they are running or not. I would assume they are and probably stopped for a minute for the photo. You don't see any slings on any of the pipe because it's already set and bedded in all the photos. If you assume that the crew laid RCP or a piece of sewer pipe without using machines because you don't see a sling proves you're pretty green when it comes to construction. It is next to impossible to lay a piece of concrete pipe without a machine and no one in their right mind would try it. And if they were dumb enough to try it, their company wouldn't make it through 1 job and be out of business. I cut a 2' piece of 12" RCP two weeks ago and put it in the back of my pickup and it took 3 of us to pick it up. I would guess that 2' piece alone weighed close to 200 pounds and those pipes come in 8' sections so do the math. Secondly, you can lay bedding without someone in the hole. However, most times it is necessary to have someone spot the excavator operator on where to place the bedding because the operator sitting parallel to the trench cannot see the pipe sometimes because of the angle of his cab and the depth of the pipe. Yes, you can have the pipelayer step out of the trench and do this, or have him walk back up the run of pipe that is already bedded and guide the operator. My guys guide the hoe operator from the trench but never in harms way in the operators work area. The slope of the trench does appear to be a little steep. I would ask the operator to lay it back a little bit more but all in all, I would feel comfortable working in that area and laying pipe. The spoil pile is where it should be in relation to the edge of the trench. That is not class C soil. If you look close, you can see the sheen on the edge of trench from the excavator bucket as he pulled the slope down and then shaped it with the side of his bucket. Anyone that has done this very much can tell why it looks that way and if the side of the trench is hard or not. I perform trench work and that trench doesn't look as unsafe as you assume.
Austin, I agree with all your comments