I have a few questions about snow removal contracts for what I would call large commercial properties. Looking for some insight from managment level on the contractor side of things. I don’t really want to make a long drawn out thread over this so much so if anyone has any interest in sending me a PM I would appreciate it!
What's snow? Sorry couldn't resist.
I know what snow is, and I move a bit of it in season, what are the questions?
Nah--you got to have at least 6 pages.
Probably how this will go. Three pages of how everybody’s skid loader works in the snow, a couple posts from the old boys about when they were pushing snow with a TD7, and one person totally lost in the shuffle with the info I’m looking for!
You do know this is a forum right? That's how this works.
The other option being paid consulting . . .
bumping with some pics of my old man’s d7g, by which he swears not a cleaner one exists in the states
I think that's debatable. Tracks look new but a little loose and what's with the seat? As far as snow removal, are you just clearing or hauling it away. If hauling it away, by yourself or hiring trucks? From what I've experienced a lot of larger commercial businesses prefer a set rate per month because it's easier to budget for. Same goes for lawn mowing and landscaping in the summer. Often the same company has a year round contract at so much per month. Depending on average snow fall in your area I think a lot of contractors figure out how many hours 1 cleaning would take and base the monthly charge on 2 1/2-3 clearings. Some month's may be more and some less so it usually averages out. You need to set a min. it has to snow for you to come out. You certainly don't want to go everytime it snows less than an inch. Hauling could be an extra cost if you run out of room to pile the snow. Maybe every 2nd or 3rd clearing and it needs to be hauled. Hauling everytime is fairly costly but sometimes there's no other option.
Actually, quite the opposite. The only contracts I want require clean blacktop at all times possible.
Milk that cow.
Well how large, strip mall or a mega-mall with 80 acres to clean? Straight blades work well under a couple acres per truck, above that the equipment list gets out of control in a hurry. Though I have seen a contract that required a 15+ ton loader and snow pusher to be 'available on site' for the entire season. The job was handled with a small fleet of pickups and a backhoe. The customer paid handsomely for the loader to be staged all season despite that it didn't have a running engine. Seems a common use for broken quarry equipment for the winter.
chemicals can sure be your friend there!
trifolding 30' snow pushers on loaders seems to be the goto here.
That only works if you get paid for everytime you clear the snow. On a monthly contract it would be annoying having to clear even the slightest sciff of snow for days in a row. There has to be a minimum amount of snow what ever it is. Sidewalks are a different animal.
I use a rubber tired Skid steer, and was cleaning about the size of 5-7 football fields. Was using a modified bucket that could push 3-4 bucket fulls of capacity at a time on long pushes. It depends on the type of area you will be cleaning. My 332G has enough weight to push a fair amount per push with studs on rear tires, depends on the type of surface you will be cleaning. The one I was doing was all smooth dirt parking lots. Did 250 hours per winter for 2 winters and was burning 7 liters of fuel per hour. Track powered units were slower moving, have too much vibration on frozen surfaces, plus cost $25 per hour wear on the under-carriage. They do not push great on ice pack. All depends on specifics of job. The modified bucket I used halfed the time for the big lots and cost me $250 of parts to build. If I find the picture again that I posted here before I will repost. Simon C
Here it is in action. Simon C
2 Pieces of square tubing used as a receiver welded to the bucket, with a piece of 2 inch tubing with conveyor belt bolted to the tubing that I can install in less than 5 minutes. Vertical bolt through the bar and receiver holds it on. Not complicated if done correctly. Pushes a huge volume of snow with no payments for $18000 angle blade. If you don't like the job you can unweld the bucket adapter in short order. This is the only way I would do it. Bend a cylinder on a plow and out $500 or more dollars and waiting for parts. Bend 2 inch tubing and buy another. Its your choice. simon C
Thank you @Simon C It wasn't too long before a real snow mover came along
It's a gamble. By the storm, poor winter, no money, big winter big money. Contract poor winter good money, big winter, lose shirt. 2 inches of snow, by the storm, I'm ok don't need to be plowed, contract half inch where are you I need to be plowed. Most of the big businesses, like the malls want a contract. Not sure about your area, but here, the contractor accepts liability for slips and falls, so the small guy is pretty much out of the picture as the can't afford the insurance.
I had a contract where they wanted no snow residue for a solid 3 week period for something, I asked if salt was okay and they said sure, about 4.5 tons later and 60 gallons of mag infused beer juice they ended up with a whole month of clear parking lot despite intermittent flurries. their parking lot was white but not from snow!
We have had those years, last year was really light, made enough to cover expenses easily but no gravy. I have friends that charge by the season, the year we had back to back 2+ foot deep storms over and over again they were really hurting as their equipment was getting thrashed for free. I did great as I charge by the foot (or 24 hours)
Did a lot of cars get drunk during that time period?
I can neither confirm nor deny! it was an early version of a less nasty accelerator it did smell a little like beer when it was warm, later versions didn't have that.
Oh, I thought you meant Beet Juice. I was told that will melt ice, but not as affective as salt. I have not tried it, though I know some farmers are using it for ballast in their tires as it does not corrode the rim.
as a side note, hopefully next week I'll be pumping the calcium out of my tractor tires, washing them out and refilling with the beet juice. This stuff was some really decent leftover stuff from the beer industry, must be similar to the beet juice and they add a shake of mag chloride and it really worked well especially as a pre-treat before those nasty heavy wet snowstorms, kept a slushy interface. I just changed up to plow early before the customers stomp it all down.
Must be a pretty fancy angle blade for $18,000.
Look up Metal Pless Angle Blades. Best out there. Can really speed things up, but most customers will only pay a certain amount, and if you do it fast, still same pay. It would of taken 7-10 years to get my moneys worth on one they quoted me. Was at beginning of covid, and too much uncertainty so I made my own set up. It was actually $18500 quote. Cutting edges last very long but very expensive. What I modified worked very well. Simon C
I can't imagine they sell many at that price. I have a 1/4 mile+ driveway and it takes forever to clear with just a snow bucket. It's almost criminal how much faster the grader is.
They were selling from Quebec to the States a lot. If you look them up you will see extremely well built, but as I said, need a lot to justify. Seen some You tube videos from States of some who bought. Yes graders are very fast but dont back up well in a windy driveway 1/2 mile long. Want about $300 per hour around here for one, worth it for some jobs, too big for others. Too hard around tight buildings. Each in their place. Simon C
I guess for area's that get a lot of snow they'd be worth the cost. Some people have adopted truck plows to skid steers. I just happen to have a grader but generally you need big area's like mall parking lots for a grader.
Not really, on seasonal contracts we bid them at estimated rates for zero tolerance. In other words, you charge for it. I don't want too many seasonal contracts though, they are good safety stop for a light winter, but I want most to be per push. Also, I don't want anything to do with contracts with 2" or 3" triggers. Once the snow gets packed down into ice it is far harder to keep the lot clean, and a lot harder to push, sliding and spinning on ice. My ideal weather is 1/2" every day or two . . .
You have to be careful you don't have too many contracts for the equipment you have if you're clearing every 2nd day.
Place I used to work, the snow removal contractor had a huge Michigan with either a V8 or V12 detroit, The pusher looked to be 30 feet wide and would do a row in very short order, that scream would make the building quiver.
This brand is common around here. Home Pro-Tech Sno Pusher is North America s leader in containment and multi-use plows. Thousands of snow and ice removal contractors have used our products to clear commercial properties. Pro-Tech offers more than 65 models and a multitude of custom options. snopusher.com
I plowed with this for the last 6 years. It's a Metal Pless blade that is 22 feet wide fully open. 10 foot center with 2 6 foot wings on a 950 K loader. Cut my route time in half compared to the 14 foot Balderson blade that came with the loader.
Exact same design that I had quoted to me by Metal Pless for my 10000 lb skid steer. You can definitely plow wide with that size of loader. They make the best plow in my opinion from all the research I done. Wont be a piece of junk in 10 years and rebuildable also. Congratulations Simon C
City here has one for an 821E. Not sure what brand. It's a 12 footer plus the side doors. It was almost $30,000. He can shove a lot of snow. I don't know what it is about a Case, but it seems to have unreal traction. 18 is not a bad price. I think a new Fisher V is almost ten grand