So probably within the next year or so I am hoping to purchase a new pickup. I currently own a 2005 Ram 3500 with a Cummins and a 6 speed manual. I am planning to stay in a 1 ton class pickup because I haul 2400lbs of water in a in the bed water tank on a regular basis. My trailer towing is fairly minimal, maybe a couple weekends a month is all. But when I will be pulling, I'll be pulling a 14ft bumper pull dump with my skidsteer in it, or dirt and gravel and what not. Max weight would be about 14000 lbs. So my question is, is there any 6.4L hemi owners on here towing this type of load?? How has it handled it?? Does it pull this type of weight no problem, or is it just too much for a gasser? With the ever increasing costs of owning these newer diesels, $10k added to the price tag, DEF fluid, added maintenance costs, the cost of all the emissions crap when it fails, etc, etc, etc.......I just have no desire to own a diesel pickup anymore, especially since I am not towing long distances all the time. But, I don't want to kill a gas motor by over working it either. Hopefully there are some 6.4L Hemi owners on here that can give me some feedback.
Also, I wasn't sure what topic to form this thread in, so if any moderators feel there is a better category for this to be in, please by all means move it.
We haul our ctl with a old f350 drw with 460 no problem....so newer engine should even be better...old f350 i think has 4.30 gears...fairly slow...but it does job
I am not answering the question you asked, but here is my input: DEF is cheap and my truck, 6.7L powerstroke, uses very little of it, maybe 5 gals. in 10k miles, $20. The federal govt. requires the mfgs. to warranty emissions stuff for 10 yrs./100k miles. Except for fuel filters, what are the increased maintenance costs your are worried about?
Wow you own 6.7 l powerstroke and dont know the maintance cost ? Now i tow close to 36000 lbs gross combined so i need a diesel....but for a crew truck and towing little dump trailer and ss....the gas pot is better... Gas is cheaper than diesel. On a 6.7 oil changes are crazy expensive especially when fuel filters are due 6.7 dually is very heavy affecting payload on the 26000 lbs non cdl limit Once a diesel needs repair...cost are very high.. So if you tow heavy all the time a diesel is way to go.....but if your empty or only at 14000 lbs....gas will be cheaper to run for sure...
I owned an auto repair shop, now closed, but I retained the building and tools. An oil change costs me $30. I think fuel filters are $60 or so, but only required every 20k miles or so. I bought new and only have 33k miles on it. My only costs so far are DEF, oil changes every 6k miles, fuel filters once, cabin air filter once, and a set of tires.
60 dollar fuel filter on a 6.7 powerstroke? Your not changing the same ones we are. And you get 15 litres of diesel oil for 30 bucks....yeah right..i do my own oil changes too...15w40 of any quality is more than 3.00 a gallon...the oil filter is 50 bucks.....second fuel filter is over 200....anyways sounds like you converted your ford with a prius engine. Good luck with your 30 dollar oil changes....cant even get that done with a gas pot..
Hi Ian, I've owned my Cummins for 10 years, so I am very familiar with the costs of owning a diesel. My dad also owns a 2010 6.7 Cummins since new, so I have plenty of diesel ownership experiences to base my thoughts on. With a $10k premium right out of the gate just to roll off the lot, and all the additional expenses of owning a diesel, oil changes, fuel filters, def fluid, fuels additives, fuel that is more expensive, etc,etc......I can buy alot of gasoline with the money saved right off the lot not to mention the ongoing costs. Now yes, I love the added power when I am towing, but i do not tow enough at this point in my life for it to pencil out. Pickups are getting far to expensive as it is, and another 10 grand on the sticker price just doesn't work for me.
By the way, I am not trying to start an argument between people on here, I know die hard diesel guys will never concede that going back to a gas pickup could be a better option for somebody, but like I said, I have owned my diesel long enough, and I know enough other long term diesel owners experiences as well to have a pretty good understanding on the cost of ownership. I just really would like to know others experiences of towing this kind of weight with a gas engine, particularly the 6.4 hemi becasue that is what I am looking to purchase, but other engine experience info is good also.
I am a die hard diesel fan....for heavy hauling....but gas is the way to go for short trips...light hauls....we have both....and use both on all kinds of jobs...can i use a 600hp twin turbo diesel tandem truck to haul a skid steer?...sure and i have lol...but it was expensive and for no other reason than not having a small truck that day...i can saw braking and hill climbing were not problems that....the 4 miles/gal was though lol....gas engines have improved so much lately....we have an f150 eco boost that hauls like crazy...at its max allowable gross...it tows just as good as a diesel.
I can't comment on how well the big hemi is for towing. But I do know that lots of companies in my area have gone away from the diesels in favor of gas engines, for all of the reasons that you have stated.
Supposedly there is a guy in myrtle beach hauling a bobcat e85 on a goose-neck with a 6.4 hemi, I don't know how true this is it is hear-say. My dad has a 1500 dodge with the 5.7 and it does real good with a 7k trailer, so good it broke the spider gears in the rear end.
An oil filter is $5 . I pay $5.39/gal. for Amalie 15w40 diesel oil. I have a local company come out and fill my 55 gal. drum periodically. I believe Ford OEM was $60 for THE PAIR of fuel filters. Granted, slightly discounted for an auto repair business and USD not CAD.
I have a 2017 Ram 2500 with a 6.4L hemi that I tow a 16' trailer with a 1035gal tank on it that weighs ~14k loaded. My truck has 4:10 gears and has no issue getting the load moving. The motor is working for sure, but it gets it done just fine. Now fuel economy is a different story. I get ~10mpg without the trailer and less than 8 when towing. Sure is fun to drive though.
Oh and the oil change on the Hemi is $125.
Is that paying someone to do it, or do it yourself?
10mpg empty?? Are you pretty heavy footed lol?
I believe on 3/4 and up MDS is not available. So you're feeding all 8 cylinders all the time. Hell my Daytona ram w 5.7 hemi and MDS only bested 15mpg downhill with the wind at my back , and I never towed with it.
I believe they have had the MDS on the 6.4s in the heavy duty for a few years now. I know when the 6.4 first came out they did not have the MDS, but I think it's been on them for 2 or 3 years now.
Learn something new every day
I get a shop to do it. Not particularly. My truck is also a Power Wagon, so it's got the big rubber and it is 2" higher than a standard 2500. Most 6.4L guys on the Ram forums are getting 10-12mpg. Mine has MDS. I find no difference in economy when it runs. I've run tanks of fuel through the truck with the MDS defeated and got the same hand calculated mileage.
Have to watch the year of the hemi, my brother has a 2010 I believe (not sure if it's the 6.4) only had 50k miles on it motor didn't last a few months before replacing cam, that lasted only a few months before the whole thing blew. Replacement was from a newer truck and ok so far. Tows around 15k once in awhile and you know it's there but it gets it done. It's a 3500 CC though, so different then the pickup versions. If you're towing really rarely, it might be ok, but regular towing i'd stick with a diesel. Having say that, it's the only gasser he owns and regrets it 100%. It eats fuel like no tomorrow it costs more to run then the diesels, and the cost of the engine was a lot. As far as extra $10k for a diesel, look at the used prices of trucks, you will get that back at resale, maybe more. 2500/3500 hemis here are worthless no one wants a gas in a heavy pickup. Some companies went to gas because it's cheaper if they abuse them like not warming up, etc. For someone with their own truck it's a lot different.
The common remark about a hemi is {it's got a hole in it}.
So I have a 201 5.7 hemi in a 2500 with 181k on the clock that I have driven since less than 100 miles. For a hauling truck and running around I'm happy with it. For towing, eh, the mileage is pretty awful. I am however considering a new 3500 with a 6.4 and that new 8 speed transmission. The price is one of the biggest factors and the fact that I don't run the truck everyday anymore. It's basically my at home work vehicle since I have a beater for a commuter.
I’ve always wondered why so many people are hung up on the extra purchase price of the diesel when the resale value pretty much zeros that out. Fuel economy from the gas to the diesel can be huge if you make a lot of miles especially comparing a 5.9 Cummins to a gas 6.4 or 5.7.
I've got a '15 2500 Power Wagon w/ a 6.4. The only thing that stops it is gas stations. I can keep it in the high 15s on the highway, but stop & go takes it down to 14 and change. Towing anything significant will drive it down to 10-12ish.
When I buy it will be new as I want the 8 speed trans, and used truck pricing is flat stupid. I do not tow all the time, just occasionally. I do not care about resale value as this will most likely be my last pickup until i retire or awfully close to it no more miles than i put on my trucks. I am perfectly fine with 15ish highway and 10ish towing as that is about all my 5.9 Cummins gets. Best I have ever seen from it, empty, highway, hand calculated is 16.75mpg. I have tried tuners, I have tried exhaust, has always been well maintained, recent injectors, it gets no better. As I have said in my past posts, I have owned my 5.9 Cummins for 10 years, I am well aware of the costs of owning a diesel not to mention the added cost up front. I want to know what guys towing experiences are with the 6.4 hemi. Thanks.
You guys arguing maintanence costs, take a look at your locations. You are comparing Canadian to US costs for items. We (Canadians) have a significantly higher parts and oil cost vs our U.S. counterparts for the exact same product.
Well I have been on and off the fence regarding buying a new truck for the last couple years, and I have been back and forth between gas and diesel. I am finally off the fence. Ordered a 2021 crew cab 3500 Laramie with the 6.4 Hemi on Saturday. With the added 12k up front, plus the issues Ram/Cummins is experiencing with the CP4 high pressure fuel pump grenading and wiping out the whole fuel system in the process (injectors and all), I just couldn't pull the trigger on another diesel. Max I pull is 14k a few times a year (and typically not very far), the rest of my towing is around 7k and less. Should be here in 2 to 5 months.
I think you will be blissfully happy with that gasser. If I were buying new it would be a hemi, for what heavy towing I might do I bought a pre-DEF 6.7 CC with the six speed manual. We rented a 2018 1500 with the small hemi and 8 speed auto for a road trip last summer, what an amazing truck! Drove like a dream, comfortbale, crazy power when you needed it, and after putting about 2,000 miles on it all over Oregon, Idaho, and Montana, we still clocked an overall MPG just a shade above 20! Mind you we weren't towing, but western terrain and 80mph highway speeds once we left Oregon made her work hard for her oats. Enjoy!
Thank you! I hope I am blissfully happy lol, this is my first ever brand new vehicle and probably my last truck as I have a company vehicle I drive during the week, unless something with that changes I won't put enough miles on the new truck over the next 19 years to wear it out.
The hemi isn't bad if you don't need a diesel, just hope nothing changes and you keep it forever, you will not be happy with the resale value if you decide to sell in say 3-5 years. 2500/3500 hemis used are worth nothing. And considering a laramie hemi is about the same price as a slt Cummins that would always be worth like $10k more used, it would hurt.
I have a supercharged HEMI in my Hellcat but I don't think that will help you!
Well the company I work my day job for had all diesel pickups in the past now only f450 and up are diesel. The guys all want diesels but in 4 or 5 years times the trucks get 200000 or so miles on them (the ones on the front line) by that time they are totally trashed not worth it for a diesel IMHO. The 6.2 Ford powered f350 i drive normally weighs 10000 ish had 15000 ish hooked to it and it drug it up the Pennsylvania mountains and got the job done if it where doing it daily it would die but on occasion it is fine. Just the truck out and about runs plenty good enough get 10.2mpg and its Normally held on the floor with a lead foot. I've personally owned a 7.3 f250 a 6.7 f350 and not a 3.5 ecoboost f150 and I will say the f150 is my favor it does great donuts in the fields and forest tows great and will get 18 or 19 mpg the 7.3 got 15 and the 6.7 got 13.2 didn't matter up hill down hill or towing the hill. And once the trailer gets over 5 ton I just take a real truck
One CP4 pump failure outside of warranty and you have just negated the resale differences, and hurts even worse when I don't have 10 to 15 grand in my wallet to fix it when it goes down.
True dat! The resale thing doesn't pencil, if you only get back what you paid up front it's still a loss. You probably paid interest on it for the life of a loan, and then it was tied up until you cashed it out, which is a zero sum game. No, if you need or want the diesel, then get it, but if it's not a necessity (or in my case pure devotion) then I believe you're money ahead to get the gasser.
Exactly, no vehicle is an investment. They are all an expense, period.
It's hard to blame the truck when people are abusing the hell out of them. That is the reason many companies went to gas pickups because they are cheaper, and will take being abused better in many ways then a diesel. For someone who looks after the truck and tows/hauls a decent amount, the diesel is far better. JMO but if someone told me they were "normally held on the floor with a lead foot" when driving my truck, they'd be looking for a new job. That equipment provides for your paycheck, you should be looking after it. Too many people forget that.
They are few and far between. Some will have the problem sure. You also need to remember what % of owners are online posting about issues, and how many of the people with problems helped caused them. But some gas engines will only make 100k-120k before replacement. Unless you are incredibly unlucky or don't look after it the diesel will last at least 250k before needing much if anything and that's still very low compared to how long most of them go. Even with a $10k repair, that diesel will be a lower operating cost when you factor in purchase, interest, maintenance, fuel, and resale compared to a hemi if you are towing/hauling regularly. Heck empty the diesel will get way better mileage.
You're looking at it wrong. Let's say that diesel is $80k new, hemi is $70k. When you go to sell them in a few years that diesel will be worth $50k and that gas will be worth maybe $30k. As long as the diesel resale value is above $20k it will fetch far more then the extra amount it cost new. No one wants a used 2500/3500 gas truck. You cannot give them away. A used few year old diesel? Most dealers can't keep them on the lot and if in good shape command a massive premium.
Remember suladas, I have owned a diesel for 12 years now, my dad has owned one for 11. I am not diesel ignorant or inexperienced. I have an 05 5.9 6 SPD manual. Best hand calculated mileage empty ever in the 12 years I've owned it is 16.75mpg. My dad has a 2010 6.7 cummins 6spd auto, est he's seen out of his empty is around 17. I don't know if we get **** fuel in Montana or what, but we never see anywhere close to the mileages people claim to get out of these cummins. So no, they won't get way better mileage empty. As far as longevity, a gas is no different than a diesel in that alot depends on how it is taken care of and driven. My dad ran a 2002 Chevy with a 6.0 for his job to over 300000 miles on the original engine. My grandfather had a pilot car service in the 90's and ran Dodge Dakotas with 318's to over 400000 miles on original engines before getting.new ones. As far as the rarity of the CP4 pump failures.....umm ford and gm have been having problems with them for years and now cummins gets the bright idea to start using them. The dealer I ordered my truck from (in a small town of about 20k people) has already had 2 CP4 failures through their shop. You are obviously a diesel fan and that's fine, but they aren't the be all end all for everyone. And I am not uneducated in the way of the diesel.
And by the way suladas. My 5.9 need a $3400.00 injector replacement at 137k miles, and I meticulously maintain my vehicle's. Stanadyne in every tank of fuel, and fuel filter every 10k miles. So your idea of 250k without needing much is a farse in my experience. I won't even go into the costs of replacing all the emissions bull**** on these modern diesels when it plugs up outta warranty. The EPA has killed the efficiency and the formerly typically trouble free longevity of the diesel in my opinion.
That's not very good mileage, my 13 3500 would get 18 mixed city/highway, 20 mpg easy on a full highway trip. The 10-12 is not great years for mileage, adding urea helped mileage a lot in 13. Or the emissions falling off. My family all runs Dodge diesels, we currently have 8 of them between us, as old as 94 as new as 2016 so I will say my experience with their durability is not based on one or even a few good trucks, I have owned about 10 myself and only 1 had engine issues but it was due to injector wiring that dealer refused to fix and eventually destroyed entire engine. One of them is my dads 04.5, has nearly 300k miles on it, purchased at 120k miles, hasn't touched the engine and the truck is abused and maintenance is non existent. The only engine issue with any of the trucks has been on 2 of the 13+ turbo actuators failing around 100k miles, and half of the trucks have over 200k miles on them. The 94 is the only one that has ever had the engine open, but when you're over a million miles, it's expected. Just one suggestion, get rid of Stanadyne. Run good clean diesel and that's it. Unless the fuel is gelled, don't touch it. I do recall 05's having some injector line and injector issues, but it's a pretty isolated issue. Between all the diesels my family has owned never had any fuel pump failures, and we're talking more then 50 trucks over the years. I'm not trying to say you made a bad decision, just trying to provide information on the diesels that is realistic. So many people think they cost thousands and thousands to maintain and always have repairs and it's not the case. Many of the one's having engine issue at low mileage is due to people screwing with them.
I maybe exaggerating a bit on the hold it to the floor bit I run it no different then my own and take just as good of care of it as my own but the group as a whole beats the shot out of them.
I am not at all trying to say Cummins are bad trucks, both ours overall have been good trucks. But, the cost of ownership for my personal situation does not pencil out. If I owned my own dirt business and pulled that skidsteer around every day, no doubt I would have gone diesel. Yes, that is not very good mileage at all. And it is what they have gotten every since we purchased, it's not like they got better mileage at one point and all the sudden it went down hill. Mine was purchased used, my dad has had his since new. Mine didn't even change at all when it got new injectors. I have tried tuners, exhaust, etc on mine. It gets no better for some reason. I just don't pull heavy enough often enough. My intent of this thread not to get in pissing matches with diesel owners. I was hoping to hear the experiences of Hemi owners. I appreciate the info you have shared based on your experiences, but my personal experience with the diesels we have owned just doesn't match up. I do not expect the Hemi to pull my skidsteer and dump trailer around nearly as well as my Cummins, but I think it will serve me just fine the other 98% of the time.
Here are my thoughts thoughts for what it's worth. Up front I'm a Ford guy as I gave upon GM years ago. In 2008 I needed a dually to occasionally pull my 32' GN with my Case 580, haul hay, pull a cattle trailer, ect. Not a daily driver. I didn't want to deal with the Ford Diesel fiasco of the day. My search ended with the purchase of a very slightly used 2006 Dodge 3500 DRW 5.9 6 speed that was pristine at 12k miles. This vehicle has always been exceptionally maintained. Fuel tank always kept full when sitting. This truck is driven about 7k miles per year and other than common rail and a catalytic converter has no emissions BS. Fast forward to 2017 this thing began throwing codes, all on the fuel system. As a former Dodge and Cat technician in a previous life prior to getting fed-up and going back to college I am very aware of the mechanics of the fuel system. Rather than getting raped by the stealership I took it to a certified Dodge/ Cummins technician that moonlights. We, at great detail tested the fuel system utilizing scan tools, checking flows.... Over the course of 2 years every component of the fuel system other than the fuel lines failed factory tests and have been replaced with new OEM parts with exception to Bosh reman injectors. I have spent over 6k on the fuel system alone. So, the question is did I make the right decision with my choice on this truck? At 100k I changed all hoses,belts. water pump fan clutch, installed a single mass Valair HD flywheel clutch pressure plate and throw out bearing . This summer the A/C went out requiring a complete rebuild at 3k. The hydroboost just went out and now now needs a rack and pinion unit. So again, did I make the right decision? I'm certainly not impressed with this Chrysler product as I feel they inferior based on my experience at the dealer in the late 70's. I know Ford has resurrected their big block motor to offer as an alternative to diesel. I'm quite sure it will be thirsty despite FI. How's about a old fashion two speed axle when you need to get dirty for the new gassers? Now at 60 I can see myself winding down a bit especially after nearly being taken out by COVID. While a new truck might be nice I have no desire to spend 75k plus an a new one.
There's two of the new 7.3 gassers in the fleet now both from my knowledge are getting 12 to 13 averages with fairly heavy usages
The old carbureted big blocks usually got 7 or 8 loaded or empty, lol. New ones are not too bad.