I look at youtube and such and everybody pulling one of these has an air ride tractor. I'm wondering if anyone uses a spring ride tractor for pulling one of these? Be interested in knowing how the detachment of the neck is done without the air suspension. I don't see it as a problem to engineer around it myself with my spring ride Mack tractor, but wondering about other's ideas. I know spring ride is considered cruel and unusual punishment these days but I still like it for a truck that sets more than operates. Thanks,
Depends on ground bearing and non ground bearing and if tractor is built with after frame fifthwheel ramps. I used a Hyster 35 ton ground bearing type with cylinder to raise/lift neck front of trailer and Hyster non ground bearing that would tilt the front deck and solid/fixed neck that required frame ramps. In most cases after frame ramps are good to have in case of uneven ground.
Hi TS, no hydraulics involved at all with the trailer type I'm referencing. Strictly mechanical operation. The one I'm looking at possibly is a TrailKing MG80 series. Typically you support the neck with a timber across the rear frame rails of the tractor when detached but the suspension must drop to make this work. Thanks,
Correct.
Maybe make a plate with a couple small air bags instead of timber to raise and lower the neck when detached to give some adjustment for hooking up
A local uses a 12 ton air jack.
A place i worked at did . That has been several years ago . The truck didnt have any thing like frame ramps. I know we used wood blocks under the trailer alot. It can be done and wouldnt be that bad if some thought was put to it.
It can be done, but that extra 3-4" you gain by dumping the air ride has to be made up somewhere. Full-length ramps will almost certainly be necessary, might want to consider trimming the end of the frame rails to get more ramp angle. Holding up the neck is not the issue, getting back under a load is the real problem.
Great all are on the same page with this. I was hoping a couple of hydraulic cylinders pushing up from the rear of the tractor didn't sound too far fetched to support the neck when detached. I need to drop my 5th wheel and tail roller down to the more standard 48" height from the current 52", (or do away with roller) and no problems rebuilding to current needs. I don't have a wet kit installed, but don't mind incorporating one. Two hydraulic cylinders placed to the inside of the rear impact guard on the truck stroking up pushing a section of channel against the trailer neck for support sounds as if it would work.
Does the trailer you're looking at have rollers?
Yes, it does in the front that roll up the ramps.
You really don't have a issue.
Thanks. Didn't want to reinvent the wheel. Think I have everything needed on hand already except possibly cylinders to repurpose. Just have never seen this done myself so went looking on youtube before asking here.
You mean one of these? Seems like a lot of work. But I mean you use what you have I guess I realize he is using a jeep, but it was the only example I could think of
A friend owns this home/shop built-there were two built alike. Notice the Hydraulic cylinder vertical, it has a plate that covers to frame to raise/lower the neck for rehook. He only has rigs with walking beam so this works well for him. *
Every mechanical detach I've been around when loading/ unloading has been a pain in the ass. Of course I'm just there usually loading or unloading them, and occasionally hooking the crane onto the trailer to help them get hooked back up. I guess it would be fine if you were only ever on flat dry pavement. But good luck if its soft, muddy or slick. Heaven forbid you get high centered on a train track or a hump in the pavement on a off cambered corner intersection. A guy who used to haul my RT, would regularly get hung up where my driveway meets the county road. Its no fun to kick in the pumps and go raise the neck, but at least I have pumps, and can go raise the neck.
I pulled one of these, a Hyster, loved it, moved pavers with it also. *
Sure seems practical and fitting the need. If this trailer didn't have a deck over the neck something like that would work well and extremely simple in construction. That impact guard on the back of my tractor is very stout constructed of 2.50" square 1/4" wall tubing and welded solid. I'm thinking to weld mounts to the inside of this thing on the lower horizontal bar to pin cylinder bases to and supporting weldments at the top for the cylinders holding them at a slight forward angle. These pushing against a section of 8" pipe to bear against the neck beams would provide for the natural "roll" needed as the neck was lifted or dropped; although very minor in angularity change.
If you're willing to put a wet kit on the truck, why not just get a hydraulic neck? I've never been around a mechanical trailer so I don't know what they can do.
I would like to find a folder that was not absolutely worn out. I really liked mine at the time and when I went into the military sold it but kept the tractor. Trailer was nice but only seven years old at that time. Mine was mechanical and the reason for the winch which I want to retain. A folder is not ruled out if I can find one in good condition but have not yet. Not looking to general freight, only my own stuff. Mechanical detach trailers are great for parking lot to parking lot delivery. I know they can be a pain in construction sites but that really is not my focus.
I thought he was talking about a fixed mechanical neck, not a folding neck. Like one of these with the rollers on the neck. I know they are lighter, and they run a bunch of them out in California. Just seems like every time we get one, the driver can't get back under it, or lined up right. And you aren't getting it up off a set of tracks.
I am trying to keep the weight down is the only consideration. Would strongly prefer to have the NGB type trailer but the weight is a factor with my truck set up the way it is.
I thought I pointed it out several posts back, I just posted the folding because the ease of use.
The Trail King trailer is a fixed mechanical neck. Like your photo but with a deck over the neck. It has the rollers that ride the rails or guides up to the 5th wheel. If the neck was tall enough a hydraulic power pack could be buried in the neck and a cylinder much like a NGB neck support could be incorporated. I've not measured so not sure about this scenario.
Yep, I'm always lifting the deck to get over humps. It's usually out in the woods, but I have crossed tracks on the pavement that made me nervous and I run with it on the highest setting.
Just watched that video and it shows where a winch would have been handy to pull the neck up onto the 5th wheel. Frost is always a bitch and even if would have gotten connected, he may not have been able to pull the weight as easy as the tractor was spinning the tires out. You never know in a video. I would not have tried that many times myself, but I wasn't there so not my place to critique.
I think for what you're trying to do, you will probably be able to manage with a mechanical. The main benefits of one are no hydraulic requirement, lighter weight, and generally a longer well. They have absolutely no place off of concrete or asphalt. As for folding necks, they have a place. Just not for everyone.
Thanks. The folder I had was nice for the application. Mechanical in operation, it was very easy to use and really did not see any on highway use loaded. I was working coal mines then and grabbing a dead dozer was pretty easy with that trailer, and the winch to pull the tractor on. Didn't have to have help most times which was good as union and management were always at odds. A nice warm shop beat the snot out of a tent, or cold hole in the ground during winter. The trailer however was heavy and the reason it wasn't kept after I was forced out. The truck I have personal connection to so wasn't going to be sold off. I just have my 15 ton Allis dozer, 8.25yd Buffalo scraper bowl, skid steer, and a couple of other smaller things and wanting to fit needs. I'd like to keep my old drop deck for rubber tired things but really don't like equipment on steel tracks very high in the air. A medium sized excavator is in the future also so looking to encompass that need. I really don't foresee being off pavement or firm areas much at all but things could change quickly if I start doing things for others.
Sent a couple of emails off to this trailer's current owner who is retiring June 30, and Trail King as wanting to ascertain basic weight of this trailer with the included options it was sold new with. I do have the serial number of the trailer. This information can then be compared to a hydraulic RGN. I don't really need the long lower deck and actually see it as more of a detriment given the overall length and manipulating concerns around tight spaces. I think an open neck, and a 20' lower well deck would work for me if the rear tandems were covered. I would probably want to take both my dozer and the skid steer to a job on the same load as example. Maybe the shorter trailer, but heavier construction will balance and keep me within target for weight which is of course tied to licensing.
So you're looking for a unicorn haha
Probably. "Status Quo" has never really fit me well.
You have a winch. Just weld an eye on the front of the trailer and winch the neck up and on to your fifth wheel. There is slack in a mechanical neck so you won't be picking that much weight until the rollers of the trailer clear your tail roller. No need to reinvent the wheel here. As mentioned, if you are going to add a wet kit then just get a hydraulic RGN, or get one with a pony motor on it and save yourself money and headaches.
I started pulling a mechanical neck in 78 with this Pete on Hendrickson RTE440. Stuck a 4' 4x4 on the truck ramp to support the neck. These trailers were the thing to have in CA, AZ,NV as they were light enough to permit a D8H. The key to these is the ramp to the 5th wheel, too short and its too steep. Too long and not enough swing clearance. Long, wide neck works best. By 87 I was using an air ride Pete and if the ramps were built right, you could pull the neck off and it would rest on the ramps. I could have the neck off in 3 minutes. I pulled Murrays and you just had to pick a flat spot when off in the dirt.. Cozads were a bit easier if you had to break it down in rough places. But then, everything loaded over the back except pavers, compactors, narrow rollers and little forklifts etc. A couple pics.
I will add, I never pulled a hydraulic detachable until 2013, it was only a 35 ton Trailking but it suuuure easy.
I used a old Hyster 35 ton ground bearing, was not a bad trailer, never found it really hard to attach neck, everyone has it's good and bad.
I have a 74 50 ton 3 axle Loadking Easyfold with on board power unit that needs a good home If any interest. Haven't used it in 25 years. Tom
Well looky here. HEF bringing buyers and sellers together.
That's a good trailer.
There you go, hyd. neck and self contained power. Doesn't look rusty, which is great for a illinois trailer.
Thanks for posting the photos. Gets me a better picture of what I'm after. This Trail King trailer comes in a bit heavier than I thought at 23,961# as shipped from the manufacturer on 12/09/19 per the original manifest. This includes the rear "flip" also as they shipped together. I did think being all mechanical it would be lighter. Most of the Talbert's I've been around are a little over 22-23K in weight so not a lot of difference, but I don't think that would include any extra axles. Not an "apples to apples" comparison, but relatively close enough to derive from. I'm thinking I'd like to have the trailer weight no more than 20K as the dozer weighs roughly 32K fully fueled, the truck just over 21,460 with one tank full. With a 20K trailer, I'm already over the 73,280 registration wanted to purchase. Basically I'd need a full 80K registration to carry anything additional to the dozer and possibly permits other than wide load when doing so for the skid steer as example. Having those numbers and knowing what my truck, and dozer weigh, it's easy to see the truck needs to go on a diet. I don't need all that winch rigging any longer and the winch could be remounted much lighter. I figure I could probably lose almost a 3/4 ton by removal of additional steel hung onto that tractor and possibly more by the time the 5th wheel elevation is reduced, and tail roller height also reduced, or removed. As simple example, that tail roller is 3/8" wall and filled with concrete before being welded closed. The original roller was "collapsing" from the weight of my old trailer and the cable riding it. The 5th wheel pedestal is mounted to 4X4X.500" wall square tube and the riser ramps are cut from 5/8" plate. Back when that truck was put together I never really operated loaded on the roadways so weight wasn't a concern; durability was however. We should talk. PM me a number to call tomorrow. Just happen to have enough white oak to plank that trailer already. Thanks,
I understand they were the innovator in the design. Seen, but never pulled one myself. I think the engine is under the deck at the rear near the ramp up to the rear area.
I know of one locally has been in the business since new in 77. He has no reason to get rid of it-still does what's needed. I know it has moved allot of combines, wheel and crawler tractors. Engine is in back.
Local farmer here has two. One a tandem, the other a tri axle and both are used often. Both on walking beams and I looked at bushing the tandem. Been let go far too long and needing more than just bushings.....
Getting late now and tired. Going to follow up on this folder tomorrow morning. Not too far off a path I've beaten many times over the years.