I just broke a 10' long, 1/2" hydraulic hose that the PO substituted for the original 1/2" metal tube (#2 below) going to my multi-purpose bucket. There is another metal tube that this hose parallels still intact that I could use for a pattern. I would like to go back to the metal tube as it's in a vulnerable area crossing from inside the loader arm onto the cross member, through the bucket linkage. Do custom hydraulic hose shops also make metal tube hydraulic lines?
If the lines are not available from JD could you route new hoses inside of a conduit to protect them? later pointrow
A good hose shop should be able to bend new line to that pattern and fit needed ends. One thing you may encounter though is sometimes factory lines have some real tight bends that hose shop tubing bender can't match. Also, #2 and #4 are slightly different lengths of the same bend configuration, be sure and measure as close as you can what the replacement line lengths should be.
Thanks guys. Pointro- If I have to go with hose I may try the conduit. Willie- thanks for the heads up, too bad they couldn't have made them the same since they are next to each other. The local Deere dealer has said they custom make hoses, maybe they could make the metal line and possibly know the exact length/angles. How does the metal line compare to hose in cost?
In my exsperiance the hose would be cheeper.
You may want to consider switching to hardline for just some of the length(mainly the straighter part- simple bends) The last time I had some lines made then I bent them myself they were a lot cheaper than their flexible counterpart.
What is the actual measured size of the OD of the tube? I bought a Rigid brand tubing bender in the 1/2" size and it put quality bends in some 4130 .058 tubing I needed. I paid $40 used for it. Rigid also makes 5/8 and 3/4 sizes, but getting much bigger a Pro Tools or JD squared type bender would work better. I have many years of experience bending tubing in this size and could give plenty of free advice if you want. As far as the ends, just TIG weld them on (or have it done) some fitting with the proper ends may be necessary with a lathe, you would want the tube to go into the id of the threaded end and fillet weld, not just a butt weld. I fixed a couple of hard lines like this on a John Deere 310E backhoe about 9 years ago, and they are still in service. The size on that tube was .058 wall. I would think you would get adequate strength from .058 hot rolled electric weld tube, but if you want to bump up the strength, use DOM (drawn over mandrel) tube or 4130.
The sharpness of the bends is the critical issue. Real sharp and precise bends will require a bending machine and dies. Gradual bends though are pretty easy. I used to buy seamless hydraulic tubing of different sizes from a place here in Seattle. It came in twenty foot lengths and I would weld whatever adapters on the ends that I needed. I would install them on the boom or stick and then make the long bends gradually using an old hammer handle. We did this all the time for installing plumbing for thumbs and even log processors on excavators or logging shovels. You do have to keep in mind that hydraulic tubing is measured on its outside diameter while hose is measured on its inside diameter. A half inch tube, #8 size, will have a smaller inside diameter than a half inch, #8 sized, hose. If you are running some distance you will have to consider using a larger size tube and then adapting the end fittings back down to the #8 size. You will also have to keep in mind that it is the wall thickness that determines the amount of pressure the tube can safely handle. A system running at 5,000 PSI will require a different wall thickness which will make that #8 size tube a lot smaller on the inside diameter than a tube sized to handle 2,000 PSI. Tubing will generally take many more thousands of hours of pressure cycles without the problems associated with hoses. Heat doesn't affect it but it is probably just as susceptible to damage as a hose is. It is generally a lot cheaper to install.
It's 5/8" OD. I will first check with the custom hose fabricators for tubing and give Deere a call too. Depending on the $, I may look at getting the materials and having someone weld them up. It looks like the tubing online is around $10/foot without shipping or ends. Here's some pictures of the current tube>
5/8 's hardline should be around 1.75 a foot for the 2800 psi rated stuff local... not sure about how hard it is to find where you are at though.
Found the site below @ $1.44/ft before shipping, maybe local won't be too pricey. It doesn't state the PSI rating but according to leisureexpress this should be a slight upgrade. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=15520&step=4&showunits=inches&id=283&top_cat=0
Yeah, I've heard of them before from the machining crowd, that price doesn't seem too overly bad for less than 20's this place has the flare-less fittings but only sells tubing by the 20 foot http://www.hydraulicstore.com onlinemetals is .058 wall while hydraulicstore is .065 wall rated at 2860 psi, I can't remember what 310's run for pressure but it will probably suffice as it is only about 10 percent thinner and they do use a 4:1 ratio for burst.
Well I checked on both metal line and hose. Only found two places for complete metal lines. One won't have anyone available to quote or fabricate until thursday the other gave me a ball-park of $170. So I am guessing the other shop would be close and it doesn't sound like they have to worry about much competition. I decided to just use hose and adapters from TSC for about $46. I bought some conduit radius 90 degree bends, in plastic and metal to try as a sleeve or maybe a splint. I also got some wide zip ties to help restrain the hose better. If nothing else, I will tie it tightly to the parallel metal line with the zip ties and use hose clamps to hold the metal line to the cross member. I like the ideas offered about fabricating a steel line and would like to tackle that and get the machine back to the OE. However, I need something pretty quick, I can't weld and cost/delay makes the hose my best choice right now. Thanks for the detailed information guys. That's what I like about HEF, it's like having lots of dad's, grandad's, uncle's and friends to help.:thumbsup Atleast that's the way it was before the internet.
Another thought on this is just use plain old 1/2 or 3/8 pipe as in plumbers pipe with the tapered threads on the end, just put the bends in the pipe if only 15 or 20 degrees or use elbows or 45's as necessary. It would be more of a hack fix but it would be effective and cost effective and given the machine it is going on it would fit right in. (not bashing at all, I have an even older JD410 that looks pretty much like it
When you talk about dads and granddads you must have been referring to the real old guys like Willie!
fftopic He for sure was among 'em. But it's great how everyone has offered their help unselfishly. I hope to help someone sooner or later. Willie has offered his insight and follow-up on every problem I have posted on HEF and I just wonder how he finds the time and energy to participate in HEF and do his real job.:notworthy I don't know his age, but I'll try to keep in Willie's good graces and consider him 'like an uncle or friend'. Yeah friend that's it.:wink2
Think Great-great grandpa
Around here they CAN make the metal pipes but REALLY try to talk you out of it. Much more trouble for them. I paid $37 for this replacement, and from Case it's $63. But I almost wish now I had bought the real part. It was hard for me to get this one strapped into place correctly while the metal one used a saddle clamp. They talk about these hoses being 5000psi or whatever they are; for SURE rated higher than the metal pipes. They cut this hose and had the thing assembled in less than 2 minutes. Stick the fittings in the press and push the button twice. Finding the fittings takes longer than pressing them on. With the metal someone has to determine what length to cut the pipe, bend the pipe and then preparing and installing the ends. This was up on my bucket and the level indicator had punched a hole in the line.