The boss and his son went to a "Divorce Settlement Auction" yesterday. Man, that would be a bummer to have to sell your stuff to settle a divorce! Anyhow, I got to work this morning, and it appears they brought this home. :tong Anyone ran one of these? Hmmm, the old girl don't look that bad! Ooo, 4-71 Detroit. Used to belong to the National Park Service. Probably used to maintain gravel roads in the National Park near hear.
Yard art... or is it going to be used
Dwan Hall has an AW, can't recall the model.......that jimmy should keep you awake shame when man and his equipment have to part.......especially since he had diggin machines you would of thought he coulda took care of this matter b4 it came to this...............:beatsme
I don't know what the bosses plan is with this one yet. The old beast runs good! I thought the same thing. Must be an ugly divorce. :Banghead
I never operated that type of grader but...ran one with that type of motor..:Banghead:Banghead
did it come with the earmuffs that were standard equipment with a jimmy lol
Hey Atco! Thats almost the same machine I have. Except I think mine is a bit older. 3-71 not a 4, no powershift, and the shape of the back is a bit different. Hows the powershift work? Does it have more then 2 reverse speeds? Any chance you could snap a picture of the inside? Looks like a little yellow paint and she would clean up pretty nice Looks like you have better tires then I do on mine.
Wish I had seen this post before I went to work this morning, I would have got some more pics! I'll post some more next week Andy1845c. I haven't been in the cab yet, our driver unloaded it, haven't had a chance to check it out yet. Interesting machine though. All wheel drive and steer.
Pacer300 is the same as a Super300 except single rear wheels. That looks like it si about the time Clark bought out AW. Mine is a few years older but has been running just fine. I am learning a lot with it. my 63 has 3 forward and 1 reverse with a transfer case High/Low range. I have posted a few pictures before.
I think I remember yours has a Cummins engine. Right?
No it has a 4/71. When Clark took over I think they started using Cummins. some of the older ones had IH gas motors in them.
Oh well...can't guess correctly always, darnit! :tong Hey Andy1845C, I was pretty busy this week getting things ready for the holiday, but I managed to snap a couple of pics, not sure what to take a pic of...LoL, I know nothing about graders. tranny controls. does this mean it has multi speed reverse? control valves a little leaky. check out the (for real) gutter below valves that directs oil to drip out hole in the floor. pic of front axle differential. rear axle differential and steering tie rod. this one cracked me up. I stood back and looked at the back of the machine. Looks like a cover plate might be missing below the grille. LoL...it looks like it has two red eyes (tail lights) a rectangular mouth (below grille) and a yellow chin (lower plate). :tong
Thats a cool grader ATCOEQUIP.It looks like it drives & steers at the front and rear axil.And a 4-71 detroit,I love it!
yep, it does front and rear steer 25c, as well as front and rear drive. Ain't no grader guy, but I figure you can steer the rear axle and make the machine offset like a grader that pivots in the middle. What the heck is that term grader hands?
I have heard it called "crabbing" I think.Dog tracking seems to apply more to trailers these days although we used to use it when a car had a broken centerbolt on the rear spring like the older Chevy IIs etc.Remember them?.LOL.Ron G
Remember them well RonG. My 69 Z/28 had a habbet of searing off that pin. That crabbing effect gave me the idea of installing a front adjustable 10' V (like a Boss plow) blade on my 300 along with the 13' board would give me about a 20' clear path in the snow. Still working on it.
Best thing your boss can do with that Awful-Western is weld a mailbox on the front and permanently park it where the postman can get to it. I operated these beasts in the sixties and am not fond of the memories.
Thanks for the pictures! The shuttle transmission must be nice. My AW lacks that. I have 2 reverse speeds - really slow and way too fast. How does the steering work? Does the steering wheel connect to a hydralic valve? My grader has more of a T-bar thing for steering. I will post some pictures of mine this weekend. Its older, but alot the same.
LoL...I think we all got a little sideways once or twice back then Ron. Now that you mention it, can't remember for sure, but I think I remember seeing an orbital valve outside the front of the cab. I'll take a look when I go back to work.
On mine the rear steer is controlled by the center valve in the valve bank. far left to right> Circle rotate, left blade lift, blade shift, rear steer, High lift, right blade lift, riper lift. Missing is blade tilt.
Here are a few pictures of my old Austin Western. I am not sure of the model. Its clearly older then the Pacer 300 that Atco posted the shots of. I guess I can't post the pictures. You will have to click on the links below. -Andy
Looks like it's in good shape Andy. Sweet!
Thats nice looking Austin western grader Andy1845c and I also like the new paint on the cable blade cat.I always liked austin western equipment.I think they were some of the first equipment companys to build hydrauilc cranes and they also built a nice hydraulic wrecker bed that the U.S. military used for many years.Cool stuff!
Thanks guys! Shes old, maybe even late 40's old, but still working. Needs a little more TLC though. I graded the neighbors driveway and township road yesterday and one of the tire casings split and the tube poked out..... DOH! The Cat is a D-8 15A I repainted it this summer.
You have the D-8 looking like it came off the showroom floor Andy.Hey ATCOEQUIP,Have you got to run the pacer 300 yet?Thats a neet grader .Ahead of it's time with the all wheel drive & steering on both axils,pretty cool.
I remember collecting some AW literature, from the '60's or early '70's (I think), and it had stories about the snow plowing abilities of their machines. Once upon a time, all of these machines were the newest and best available from the various manufacturers. Some of them had interesting answers to the blading and snow removal problems of their day. If you have never had the chance to operate one of these older machines, from any of the many manufacturers of the past, you will never really understand how good we all have it now. I still enjoy jumping into or onto an old piece of equipment. Thinking back to the old days, when people just like us, climbed on in the morning, ate dirt all day, and crawled off at night, knowing that the next day would bring more of the same. To those of you who are lucky enough to latch on to one of these old machines, I envy you. smoothoperator...buy clean fuel...keep it clean.
Andy, Looks like a late 50's Super 100. the rounded radiator cover is what makes me think it is from the late 50's and the high lift cylinder. Mine is a 63 and has the same cab but the grill is not as round and the high lift cylinder is of the newer design. You have hydraulic steering with the "T" handle which was also from the late 50's or real early 60's. The same basic design with all wheel steer and all wheel drove has been around sense mid 40's. This grader design was way ahead of it's time in the 40's. That sure is a nice big back window you have there.
They've kept me pretty busy with other machines, haven't had a chance to play with the A-W. Hope to in the next few weeks. Sweet cable Cat ya got there Andy.
This is an old thread, but I want to add a pic of my old Austin Western Here. 4-71 Detroit Diesel powered Austin Western Grader, (believe it is an early 60's Super 300) working on grading the area around our 'Ground Source Heat Pump' wells and water lines. Woo-Hoo! A project coming together! BTW, the rear steering on the Super is essential for getting this thing turned.
Old thread yes, but da-yum, that's a nice pic, and a sharp looking A-W you got there Brian!
Thanks! I drove the blade around our property, grading a bit on the fields and on a trail. My cousin and I did an in-frame engine rebuild last winter - in the cold! It is running good, but the rack adjustment is not quite right yet. Ready for winter snow plowing. That Detroit 2-Stroke sound is quite a sound! Also, Steering and Stopping this thing is a real experience. And Thank you for the help with the driveline on my truck! This dirt project was underway when I broke it. We had snow yesterday, so all projects r finishing up just in time.
Snow, jeeez, that's a dirty word around these parts, leafs are just now turning 'round here. I hate to see summer come to an end. BTW, it has become my mission in life to see to it those old Detroit's continue to live, I have no idea why, but they are picky about the oil. Don't use multigrade oil such as 15W/40. I reckon I have a desire to advise owners of these engines to use the right oil because I have burned many a gallon of diesel fuel running those things, unique sound indeed. :yup
Why no 15/40?
The oil issue for Jimmys:beatsme: The Ash and Zinc content in the oil is extremely important for the Jimmy 2-stroke...Less than 1% ash, 0.07% Zinc. Straight weight, 30, 40 or 50. From the 471 DD manual: There are obsolete classifications mentioned. CC turned into CD, which turned into CD-II which became CF-2 and CF-2 is being discontinued from API: CD-II Introduced in 1987. For two-stroke-cycle engines. CF-2 Introduced in 1994. For severe duty, two-strokecycle engines. Can be used in place of CD-II oils. I looked around and found Walmart Universal Motor oil, met all the requirements, was CF-2, was available. A popular oil for the DD 2 stroke was DELO100. The oil has to be low ash, less than 0.85%. That is from the manual and guys like Willie59 who know.
Okay I see ware you are getting your information. Do you have any idea how old that report/study is? Just asking because I have been using delo 400 sense the 60's and have never had to rebuild a motor of any kind due to wear. I am not trying to prove anything here just wondering if changing to delo 100 would show me any noticeable improvement. I mean I expect to wear out before that old 4/71 does. The only motor I have that does not use delo 400 15/40 is in my Shelby and to stock another to get 5 or 10 years past my death, would it be worth it? By the way if I get up your way in the spring do you mind me looking you up and checking out your AW?
Pretty much all of the old timers, you and me, we just aren't there yet , just kidding, I qualify for old timerhood, I just don't know or remember much, where am I, oh, right, the old timers say: Only straight wt CF-2 in the 2-stroke diesels . Premature engine failure may result, or at the least ridicule for using the 'wrong oil'! The DD Manual states multi-grade oils should only be used as a last resort. Perhaps Oil technology has advanced, but the statement that multi-grades do not compare, and shortened engine life by fleet owner reports cause me to look for a good straight wt...There was a ferry line that did a semi-scientific study re low sulfur fuel and low ash oil. They found the low ash straight wts to be best, as I recall... The issue with the right oil in severe duty 2-strokes is the deposits that occur with too high of an ash content and additives to the oil in some multi-grades. The following site has some info that has an old timer's advice where he found Delo 400 to be out of Spec. http://www.tejascoach.com/tips.html In our frozen parts of the world, you might like the part about carrying bleach: You can use the bleach to pour around the tires and make a short trail in the ice and snow to get traction if it gets too slippery to untrack the vehicle So, would I get a st wt? yep. Just so my Widow can sell my stuff without some jerk telling her I used the wrong oil in my rigs. Otherwise, it might destroy her whole concept of me as a man where at least she thought I was handy. Come on by! What do you run in the Shelby? What kind of Shelby? LIke a MK?
My wife wanted me to install 6 brass handles on mine. Sounds like she already has plans for it after I am gone.
If you click the link provided by Brian above, you'll find a lot of info about 2 stroke Detroit engines, Tejas Coach has extensive experience with them. The biggest problem with using multi-grade oil in a Detroit is the friction modifiers in the multi grade is not compatible with the piston/liner arrangement of the old Detroits. Over the life of the engine, it will lead to failure before it would using SAE 40, you'll also notice increased oil consumption when using multi grade oil.
Looks like next time I change oil I should consider maybe Delo 30 for the winter. Mine does smoke a bit but I just thought that was the way it was along with the leaking on a jimmy. I do have most of the leaks fixed now only 3 or 4 or 5 or maybe 6 yet to go. broke an axle a few weeks ago but was able to find parts as needed just took about 3 weeks to get them all.
Detroit Diesel 4-71: 4 cylinders, 71 leaks u mean Delo 100 30wt, rt? All st wt CF-2 API are getting hard to get. I opted for 30wt based on the DD Manual, bought 30 wt as it was available, made by Penzoil, they confirmed it had low ash, it was sold by Walmart, but I might have gone with 40 wt if I could have found it as I buy the argument that once the engine is warmed up and running at temp, 40 wt is good no matter the ambient temp. Auxiliary heat to start a DD is a pre-requirement in booger freezing weather.
The original post was about a pacer...I thought I would add a couple o pics of a Super head to head with a Pacer (I think the original post was of a Super, even though the govmnt said it was a Pacer.) Here is a Super : Here is a Pacer :
One would think that SAE30 would be an acceptable grade for cold climates, logically so. But once the engine/oil gets up to operating temp, SAE40 is much better for these engines. The best case in cold climates would be using SAE40 and a silicone pad heater on oil pan to keep oil warm.
I do have a water cerculating heater on this Super 300 but only have had to use it a few times. Normaly I would not run the grader when the temp is below 25 degrees as there is no need to here. Mine has come a long way sense I got her and still has a long way to go.
I must say sir, that is a fine looking grader. Coolant heaters typically work well on engines that have a water jacket around pistons/liners. But on a Detroit, most of the coolant is in the head, very little heat transfers to the sump oil. A silicone pad heater on the oil pan helps a lot on these engines to keep oil at a good cold temp viscosity.
True on all counts!
Here is some work from a few weeks ago. First was to straiten the side shift ram to stop the largest oil leqaqk I had. Then I got after the circle turn motor leak. both fixed I went to work grading a local trailer park and broke an axle. That one took 3 weeks just to locat the parts and have them shiped here. Did I mention a lake formed around the grader well it was waiting for parts.
The lake and a full blade working the park.
The wifes uncle does equipmet auctions and we sold an older gentlemans place as he was retiring at 90. He had and old open AW, no cab in the pictures I saw. This guy had one heck of a machine shop set up to keep his aw going. I was told he built every thing he needed. Kind of sad, you don't find folks with that kind of dedication very often any more. Mr. Hall, that is a very nice looking machine you have.
I did my apprenticeship with Aveling-Barford in the UK starting in 1970. Barford were licensed to manufacture Austin-Western graders in UK and for export to UK territories world-wide - lots of them found their way to Africa & Australia. The "standard" steering at that time was what we called the "Tiller Bar" (T handle), Orbitrol was an extra-cost option. The two different types of steering were pretty much a 50/50 split in new machines going out the factory IIRC. I also remember that every machine got taken to an old airfield about 10 miles away from the plant for testing after assembly and before final paint. To get there required driving down a very heavily-trafficked 4-lane major highway, to do it in a Super 500 with tiller bar steering was "interesting" to say the least......
Aww, I remember operating an old girl like that years ago. She was a horse!!
Hi Nige; untold Aveling Austins 99Hs and later all the Avelling Barford variants 4x4, 6x4, 6x6 all made it down to new zealand. And many are still going. Even got a rough old MG4 myself, doesnt do alot but is handy when i need it. Used it alot one winter towing loaded logging trucks out of a slippery uphill climb.
Merv, The 99H and the contemporary 6x6 version were the ones with the solid frame. The MG variants had a hollow frame and were much lighter. The last ones I came across were in Zambia at the end of the 80's - SG 6x6 units with Detroit 6-71 power and an Allison tranny. I have never come across a grader before or since the good old Ambling b*****d for sheer pushing/pulling power. Even the latest generation of 6x6 machines with hydraulic drive to the front axle as opposed to A-B's drive shaft and diff still don't come close IMO.
coming up on 50 years old next year and pushing dirt around caterpillarmech, Thanks for the comment.
Cheers Nige; well that explains why the old 99H would eat a MGH. Knew the 99 had a bigger heavier engine [leyland 600 vs a 401] but never twigged about frames being heavier. Yes you get the frame offset with the rear pushing the toe and front pulling the heel a old super MG will eat a 130G. Although the man in the seat will earn his pay for the day !! Is another contractor in the area with a 6V71 powered Super 500 that Im told will eat most other graders cutting clay for mounding farmers paddocks. Alot of the later avelings had allison transmissions, mines just the old 6spd manuel. pic of mine towing a logger up hill, got another but it won,t load, pity.
My one claim to fame at A-B was that during a summer shutdown (1971 or 72 maybe) I worked on the water press in the Plate Shop that was used to bend the frame rails for the graders. A bunch of millwrights had to rebuild the pump for it which involved scraping in new white metal bearings for the crankshaft. As the apprentice that got to be my job (under supervision of course). That press was a sight to see. Even though the frames for the SGs were heated in a furnace to make them easier to bend they used to make the old press creak .........!! The MG frame rails were simply a piece of channel with a plate welded on the 4th side to make a closed box. That's how you can tell the difference between solid & box section - look for the weld along the length of the rail. Back in the day an SG would grade the ass off a Cat 16G, I still think it would even now against the latest and greatest 16M TBH.
willie59, I'd love to have that machine! Where I am, in the Sierra mountains, our county ran a fleet of Austin Western and Clark four wheel graders for snow removal. (Starting ten years ago, they've been replaced by Cat 143L graders; there is only one Clark left now...) I've never run one, so what follows is second hand info from my friends who are County operators: The old timers say that the AW/Clarks 'punch above their weight' when plowing snow. They'll really push a bull plow of snow, up hill too, especially well compared to the heavier Cats. Watching the old time AW graders plow snow, they looked well balanced. Their front axle's conventional mechanical drive and differential looks like it put the power down to the ground. The hydraulic front wheel drive (front axle assist in tractor speak) of the Cat 6x6 graders slips and jerks as the Cats make turns plowing on the snow pack. The young guys say (as a joke) that the one Clark that's still in the fleet is there only 'cause the supers can't drive the new machines. The old desk guys can still go out in big storms to show the young guys how to do it. The first of the Cats came with Balderson hydraulic bull plows. Evidently what works in the dirt doesn't work in snow. Those'll plow up asphalt and base really well, but that's not the objective of snow plowing... now most of the Cats have the old bat-wing, chain lift, bull plows fitted to them. On the AW/Clarks the bat-wing plows looked flimsy and rinky dink when the graders roaded around, but they looked awesome plowing snow. They would really heave and cast the snow. I remember many times seeing an AW or Clark doing 20-25mph on a county road, really crabbed into it, hogging 6-8 feet width, 4 foot tall, of wind-rowed snow and casting it 20 feet off of the road. With the accompanying sound of the 4-71. (side note) The best sounds were the Idaho Norland rotary plows, powered by 12v-71's! The new machines have mufffled tier whatever itzzts power... I plow a few private roads with a loader mount blade. I'd love to use that AW Pacer you have for a plow!
Yeah, I kinda wish the boss would have kept that rig, but a buyer snatched it up, oh well. Welcome to HEF Jim D. :drinkup
willie59, Thanks for the welcome! When ever I get to where I can post pictures, I'll post a picture of our County's only one left Clark grader.
Please do, we love pics of old iron that's still plugging away.
I just started taking pictures now; I wish I'd done so many years ago! Our County scraped out the last Sno-Go rotary plow (blower) last year. Great machine from the '50's (?). Climax Blue Streak gas engine to power the blower. Maybe a Dodge or Studebaker truck cab chassis. I never thought to take a picture of it. This year I asked the Super where it is, as it wasn't in the yard. 'Gone. Busted gear case.' I've watched it run for twenty years, and I don't even have one picture of it now...
Dwan: Did you manage to stop the leak on the fitting that leads to your slide? My questions are on the picture. What happened was I was getting the hang of plowing snow with my old Pacer, had the back end crabbed out...the yoke was already broken...I had the turntable locked, but the ram just gave out, spewing oil and now I am torn down with it. All should be OK, but I want to know if putting the new 'O-rings' in the feed to the slide stopped that leak. That is a major leak on this machine too. Did the slide ram stay straight?? Mine is bent too, this would be a good time to fix it, rt? Also, My yoke is broken on that cast piece (on the pic), as the pin had slid down with only half the yoke fastened and it gave out. It had been welded before and did not work as the pin slid down (again). Maybe I can get the yoke pinned back together, considering welding it may not work.
I just broke the same yoke that you broke. Not knowing what happened I kept pulling the lever(s). As a result I bent both rams in the circle. Hope to have it up again in a month or so. I plan on adding an extra gusset or 2 around that yoke. By the way, that is the FINEST A-W I have seen. About $30K and 30K hours and mine could look like that!!
Yes it stopped the leak in the side shift if I park it with the ram retracted. But it will still drip about a cup a day if I store it with the ram extended. As far as welding the yoak, I did not have any luck getting it to hold so I just had to give up and buy a used one, then had to replace the seals as the new one leaked. All is better now. Next is to repack one of the lift rams as it leaks about a tablespoon a day
I am in Anchorage this weekend till maybe Tuesday the 16th. Give me a call 907 723 2503.
If mine leaked that much I would be overjoyed :drinkup
I think Dwan is a lucky guy, or just knows his stuff! Dwan, Thanks for coming over to my place and looking at my machine, pointing out zerks and features I didn't know it had, giving me hope that I can get my grader in shape approaching your rig!:notworthy
I know this thread is old but maybe I can revive for a question. Are these axles a military surplus. Where could a person find a axle shaft and a hub insert that connects the axle to the wheel hub.
I’m looking to buy this machine but it has this problem. Are parts available.
Austin Western is the US version of Aveling Barford graders, British built. The main difference was the engines, AB's used Leyland and I'm sure the rest of the mechanicals are the same. A lot of County Councils had them with the 99H ( 4WD, all wheel steer)being the most popular, so if you blokes are looking for parts look for them Downunder - Australia and New Zealand. I operated a Super 500 for a little while in the early 70's and it was a pig of a thing but in saying that nothing else could match it on earthworks jobs.
A So your telling me we imported axles to build a grader in the late 60s from Britain. That’s weird.
No. If it's made under licence then it's the same wherever it's made.
you can read about there history in text. Kinda a interesting read on the back and fourth with Britain and USA.
Back in the day International Harvester, Caterpillar had whole manufacturing plants in Britain as well not like today having components made all around the world then getting a machine with a sticker on it " Proudly Made in the USA".
I went and looked at it today. It’s a pretty tight machine for its age for sure. I think I’ll find the parts I’m after. There’s a lot of parts machines around. I like the simplicity of the components on the machine. Not a lot of specialty stuff on it. Hydraulic system is all common looking.
That might be a tall order to find a part like that. It's likely unique to your machine, but I couldn't say for sure. You might find one! My neighbor can make anything on his CNC lathe. He's the one I head to when I need something custom