Yair . . . this may be of passing interest . . . there was some off topic discussion about cab over designs on another thread, apparently they are not liked in the US? There seems to be a lot of these around on the main drag up the Queensland east coast . . . http://www.kenworth.com.au/latest-n...88a00be705c87032fdf19f/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=20 . . . to my eye they just don't look right with that tucked in at the bottom wussy grille. Cheers.
Scrub Puller Yup that grill looks like it's been sucking lemons, the old grill is a tradition unfortunately some bright eyed bushy tailed designer thought they knew better I drove COE eight wheelers on stock comfort wise they were good and you could see a long way ahead being up so high good on country roads The down side on that big wide high cab was always having branches stuck under the horns and broken mirrors and cab lights as the dispatchers didn't know the roads we were expected to go down. Cheers GMG
We sure don't see as many cab over trucks on the road as in the past . Seems like in the 1970's at least 1/3 or even close to half of the trucks on the road were cab overs . Wonder what the framework in front of the wind shield is for ? The K 200 looks good but not as cool as B.J. Mckay's rig . www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY4L1xQIl0g
Scrub, everyone I know that drove one in the past, never went back to another one after driving a conventional truck for any amount of time. I haven't seen many cab overs on sales either in the last decade or so, the one's I did see went beyond cheap, nobody wanted them at all. Why the attraction over there for them? The smaller mid sized trucks, single axles there are far more of those cab over than semi's in my area anyhow, the delivery guys with boxes on them seem to like them for getting around alley's and tight spots to make their deliveries with, but the vast majority of trucks on the road are not cab over's. One guy once told me, cab overs were the only truck on the road, that would toss you out of your seat, slap your butt at least twice before you landed back down into the seat again and that was considered a smooth road, on rough roads it was far worse. Of all the cab overs I ever rode in or drove, that pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Yair . . . an Aussie trucker will surely chime in but I'm pretty sure their popularity here would be to do with our length regulations. As with most subjects on this board I am just an interested observer. I haven't driven for a living for close on forty years and have never driven a cab over. I was surprised though by a random comment on that other thread about the general dislike of the concept in the US so I thought it might be interesting to maybe start a discussion. td25c .That frame in front of the windscreen is a stone guard . . . . http://www.airplex.co.nz/wa.asp?idWebPage=47324&idDetails=174 pretty common in Australia and New Zealand. Cheers.
yeah scrub every one is trying to get as much freight into 25m and 26m bdouble sets and they still want a bunk to sleep in having a bonnet makes you lose 2 pallet spaces and have less productivity ... its all about $$$ you've probably noticed trailers are getting longer, closer together and the floor is creeping down while the roof is creeping up
Yair . . . The Learner . Gotcha mate, thanks for that. I don't know the current rates but two pallets would be a lot of lost revenue over the lifetime of a truck . . . no wonder they're popular. (big grin) Cheers.
Hey scrub, yeah it seems over this side of the nullabor that those on road run the k200's and other manufacturers cab overs, whilst those heading off road are using the conventials, mainly t908s, c500's and Mack titans and western stars. Don't see very many Coronados or powerstars that's fir sure. On a side note, see all kw's know coming out with Cummins ISX, but trucking companies are pulling these out and putting in mine-spec C-15s and even series 60's. Anything to keep away from egr or ad-blue for the Bush. Have you seen similar over your way?
Gotcha Scrub:thumbsup From a mechanics standpoint one thing I do miss about working on cab over rigs was the ease of getting to components for service work . Rock the cab over and there it all was in front of you . Made in frame engine rebuilds & clutch jobs a lot easier .
Yair . . . fsmech . That sounds pretty radical mate. I am pretty much out of touch with the trucking scene these days, any East Coast Aussies like to comment if it happens over here? Cheers.
Things on the front of the engine were not as easy to get to. But every thing else was. The last one i worked on had a broken AC bracket. It was a freightliner with a 6v92. The cab was up and i noticed the small door under the bunk was not latched good. I ask the owner if their was any thing that could fall out. He said no nothing to fall out. Well i had worked on it and was half way done and had got out from under the cab when i hear some one say something. The next i know i could no longer stand or hear any thing. The fire extinguisher had fallin and hit me in the head.
Not really popular here either I drove a few of 'em in the '70s and '80s. Long wheelbase + air ride helped some. Extremely dangerous bobtailing in rain or snow. Last big company I drove for phased them out for various reasons, according to the safety guy. Harder to get into and out of, rough ride, lots of team drivers complained of being severely bounced around in the bunk. In Canada, longer length laws allowed longer tractors and the cabover faded into history. Still see the odd one around but very few and far between.:my2c ,
That sounds painful Old Doug . Yes before rocking the cab up had to make sure everything was stowed securely or removed from the bunk . A lot of the cab overs I worked around also had the 90 degree tilt feature . That was handy for major work or getting to the front of the engine . I never totally trusted the hydraulic valve when taking the cab all the way over and used a safety chain & lever hoist tied to the rear cab mounts and a cross member on the truck frame to catch it & let it down easy . I thought I had everything out of the bunk on a customers Ford CL 9000 and while jacking the cab up a loaded .357 fell out from under the mattress That was real cute . Thinking back we worked on alot cab overs through the 1990's . Just don't see very many today . We rebuilt the engine in my buddy's 1967 Ford 600 series cab over last year . It had the 361 gas engine . Done it in frame , even got to bore one hole .030 over as a snap ring had broke in the piston boss letting the wrist pin wear into the cylinder wall. The cab over design made that job handy .
I will add this... Years ago I saw a mechanic launch a TV set through the windshield of a cabover Peterbilt. Oooops.
Can anyone shed any light on the trucks that have two sets of steer axles on them? I see them advertised and always wondered what the purpose was, especially on a semi tractor, can you possible get enough weight on two steers or what's the reason? Just curious, only ever saw one in person, and the driver didn't know when I asked him, he was just told to get in and drive it, hadn't driven it enough to have a real opinion when I talked to him, just different was his only statement, he never elaborated any more than that. If you guys over seas, have such long trailers, or doubles, what's the issue with a longer tractor then? You said that a trucks nose takes up the place of two pallets, are you restricted on tractor length, or overall length or what, could you please explain in more detail what a class 8 is, scrub mentioned and how this all fits together in your equation of lengths. Also on road trains, those are so long, how do those differ from the other specifications where your running cab overs instead? As they say educate us.
That's a good question Randy88 . In my area back in the late 1990's Swift had a small fleet of twin steer Freightliner cab over tractors . They were still somewhat short wheelbase but had a double bunk sleeper . Must have been experimenting ? Not sure what the advantage was . Wish I had a picture of one .Looked similar to this model www.pintrest.com/pin/320600067194002413/ They were nice looking rigs . www.swifttrans.com
Yair . . . here you go fellers, dated 2007 but it may help. The summary is pretty straight forward and puts things into perspective (I think). http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Reports/AllowabGrossMasTwinSteerRISJun08.pdf Please understand I have no skin in this game, that is to say, I post with no real knowledge or authority, just a general interest. These Northern Territory specs. may be slightly different to some of the States but they are easier to read. http://www.transport.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/19599/ibv13.pdf http://www.meters-to-feet.com/ . . . the converter might be handy. (big grin) Cheers
Yeah Scrub . You know one advantage I often think of about twin steer vs. single is in the event of a failure of some kind . Say tire blows or wheel bearing ? On a twin you lose 25% steering and on single it's 50% . Chances are with the twin steer you could still avoid an accident or at least limp the rig in to a safe spot for repair . Just stupid things a feller thinks about when moving a twin steer Grove crane to the next job .
we may have long trailers ... but there is a limit on which trailers can be used where. victoria has extremely strict rules towards road trains only a 100 miles of road or so in which they can be used as scrub has shown rigids cannot exceed 41 feet in length semi's are limited to 62 feet where maximum trailer length is 48 feet b doubles fall into 3 categories 62 feet including 2 trailers and truck/tractor 82 feet including 2 trailers and truck/tractor 85 feet " " semi trailers typically have 41', 44'6", 45", 48' length and b double have typically have a 44'6" "B" trailer and a either a 24' or a 28' lead or "A" trailer so to complete maximum length on a 85' b double you have 72.5' leaves you 12.5' for cab and trailer gaps thats only a small chip in the rules
Another thing to note when talking about the difference between Australia and America is that we dont have any bridge laws here in Australia. On a normal configaration we are allowed 6.5t on the steer 16t on a bogie set (drive axles etc) 24t on tri's This is regardless of trailer length and prime mover wheel base. So as The Learner mentioned if you want to run max volume of a 19 metre (62 feet) single trailer unit this means you can only use a 48 ft trailer, if a cab over is used in this combination that means the driver gets a bigger sleeper compared to using a short bonnet conventional. Same goes when using a b double if you want to maximise trailer volume within the restricted length you can get longer trailers buy using a cab over. When people complain about the ride of a cab over has anyone in the states driven a modern cabover? I agree that the older 80's and older trucks were pretty bad think 4 spring or torsion bar suspension, little or no cab suspension and poor designed spring seats were pretty bad. But the modern trucks with air bag drive, air suspended cabs and well designed air seats arn't that bad. After all you are driving a truck and not a pick up. On a side not Australia does have mass management rules which allow more gross weight if certain conditions are met, air bag suspension all round, front under run protection, abs on the truck and pay the required fee to the government just to name a few.
here's an axle mass chart with common vehicle combinations for victoria in metric http://hitchbros.com.au/Mass_Limits.pdf
Biggav, I've never seen a modern cab over anywhere in my area at all, never seen one on the interstate in all the traveling I've done, nothing on any dealer lots anywhere to even go look at, in fact I've never even seen any literature except for what scrub put up here. From what I get out of the whole concept of them, there is no reason or advantage for a cab over here in the states, trailers are limited to lengths and we can get permits for being over lengths for about anything. As for being better now they are newer, again keeping in mind I've never been in a modern one, so I guess you could say, my ideas area about the same as most on the topic, but have you ridden in or driven a modern conventional with a long wheelbase double bunk sleeper condo, with air ride chassis, cab and seats? So just looking at them, my first impression is, who wants a cab over? So can anybody tell my just how rough the ride on a twin steer tractor with two axles, I could understand the twin steers on a crane, or cement truck or something similar where they had a long frame they could get enough weight transfer to the front and wheel base to gain ride on, but on a tractor?
Are these the Mass Management weights? Because where I am, for a normal truck, you are allowed: Single steer - 6 tonne Single drive or trailer axle - 9 tonne Tandem drive or trailer axles - 16.5 tonne per set Triple trailer axles - 20 tonne per set
Randy88, I havn't driven anything with a super long wheel base, what do some people some people run like 270", when I was in the US and worked for a custom cutter he had 2 379 pete extended hoods and 1 t600 that were fairly average wheel base compared to every other truck. They were pretty good but its still driving a truck. The trucks I drive mostly now if I do go driving are 4800 western stars, short bonnet and short wheel base. Plant Fitter Looks like I made a balls up when writing those weight down. Better stop drinking so many tins and looking on HEF.
Every person ive talked to who drove them hated them. Rough ride, long complicated shifter and clutch linkage that gave little to no feel, hard to get into, harder to judge distances and alignment sitting so close to the front. When I worked on trucks I HATED to see one of them sitting in the lot. Everything you needed to do it seemed like the cab was in the way, even though it looks like it was up out of the way, it was a constant nuisance. Try putting a radiator, fan hub, fan in a cabover, not fun. Glad to see them go away, hopefully to never ever return.
Taking a different tack, cabovers are the only way to go in Europe because of length limits. An artic is limited to 16.5m or 54ft maximum length, so with a 40ft flat deck length you don't have much to play with regarding the tractor. Load limits are 44 tonnes on 6 axles or 38 tonnes on 5 axles. The latest generation of models from companies like Volvo, Scania, or Merc are a pleasure to drive and give a far better view than looking over a couple of yards of hood IMHO.