I am looking for a single axle under 26k lb dump truck. Alot of trucks listed have allison automatics in them. I have always had 5 speed manuals w/ 2 speed rears. How are the autos in soft ground? Do they have the torque to pull or do they want to bog down and slip with a load on soft ground? I am looking for a newer truck in the $30k range. These small trucks r hard to find that have have not been used for plowing and salting. I dont want a salt truck, been there done that.
Depends on which automatic. Ive seen 653 allisons totally pretzel drivelines when manually pulled down in to first gear. They are normally a second gear start and the first gear reduction is pretty low. 643s on the other hand dont have the extra low first gear.
I have heard they are amazing. but I only have had a chevy 2500 and 4500 with absolutely no problems and tow great too.
Thanks for the response. We would also be towing a trailer w/ a Case 580L short distances. Can you downshift to get some engine braking w/ the Allison?
the larger allisons will down shift and jake brake
How can you tell which Allison a truck has? Does the International 4300 w/ the DT466 have the 653? Can you tell by the vin?
The 653 is an older transmission model. A 4300 will have either a 2000 or 3000 series trans. I have had a few 4000 series in dumps and hook lifts and they worked awesome. For off-road work, I would pick an Allison over anything else. No drive line slippage and can ease around on rough ground. I had a '07 Granite, 400 hp with 4000 Allison, that was a great truck.
The build tag on the door post of my 1988 Ford snow plow truck lists mine as a 653 Allison. Try looking there for the model. My Allison has had no issues until now. A life of snow plowing for the state and for the last 10 years plowing snow and pulling a 20 ton equipment trailer hauling skidders and such. This winter it started leaking tranny fluid right thru the casting. It is rotted out from salt corrosion near the tail shaft. I need to start looking for a 653.
I guess my comment about 653 Allisons does kind of date me. Same company at the time ran a bunch of Internationals with 8V-92s equipped with HT 754s with retarders and Jake brakes. Those were pretty effective at bringing things to a stop. And we are talking about 120- 130,000lbs on private roads.
Ive never seen a jake brake on a truck under 26k regardless of transmission. Do they exist?
Only if you have an engine capable of being fitted with a true Jacobs engine brake. I have a friend with a new Duramax Chevy that swears the exhaust brake is a Jake brake. Oh well.
Thanks everybody for the info and responses. It is nice to get info from a guy that has been in the seat as opposed to from a sales guy that is trying to get you to buy the truck!!
There should be a serial number/model plate on the side of the transmission. Also, you can pull the vin number and it should tell you what transmission CAME with the truck. Stay away from the 1000 or 2000 allison's/ They are for 26k and under IIRC. Lots of C&C trucks with the 2000 series allisons. If your doing any towing, the 3000 series should be a minimum with the newer trucks (Not sure of the years). Also, I think the MT 600's didn't lock up or have an overdrive. Someone please double check that for me. My transmission came with a single overdrive and I paid the allison guys at JAt's in Johnstown to unlock the second O/D for me! I looked for a long time to find my 2001 internatianl 4700 with a dt530E and a MD3060 ally. If you can't find the model number, you can look at the allison website and it will tell you which transmission you have.
They will Jake or exhaust brake the same as a manual at higher speeds (above 15-20 mph say) but when you get down slow enough that the torque convertor unlocks then it is not as great. This depends entirely on the vehicle and whether a 4, 5, 6 or 7 speed and how it is optioned, you just need to try it out and see how it works for you and some can be changed a bit. I think they are wonderful in soft and especially slippery ground like greasy mud or snow. But if it is an AT5xx or a MT6xx I would think twice because they are so old, the modern ones, 1000, 2000, MD3000, etc are much bigger and better. I think that in most applications they are a money saver all around except maybe long haul, but others will disagree. And the exception is if you happen to get the one that nukes taking out the entire guts, which can happen, then it is a very expensive repair or junkyard unit.