i have an excavator with two valve blocks each fed off a seperate line #10 #9 the blocks tee into the same return. I am looking at adding a high flow hammer circuit. The unit is all pilot controlled. there is one un used port on a spool section #14 is actuly tied between blocks to have one function get extra flow from two spools at once. so the valve section has only one populated output. my initial plan was to take oil from the block inlets right off the pump. that way the pressure would match all other ports on block. but when valve is not active it has a return to tank port . so when ever its off it would dump pressure into the return. its a hyd valve block from a saw control on a feller buncher with adjustable relief. I cant figure out how to take fluid when on without dumping flow when off. unless i can use the un occupied port on block and its able to be activated by yet another solenoid... looking for ideas..
Are you able to give any other information such as the excavator model and serial number and if possible the name and model of the breaker/hammer you are wanting to set up. Kind regards
it's an import jisan.. but the excavator is an old terex schaeff the gpm requirements are all in order but looking at the valve I chose I think I should be ok with the relief setting it has preventing the loss of system pressure when deactivated.
Cant see from the diagram that well but if you have a load sensing pump supply system that the saw control valve is going to tee off from then your valve should do the job. I would think that you can set the saw control relief valve 30 bar above the pumps pressure compensator or to the same relief setting of the main control valve that is in parallel with the saw control supply. You would just need an additional relief valve between the saw control and the jisan which may require a setting of around 150 bar for the breaker, but thats an estimated guess.
there appears to be a relief drain and a check valve drain. do these ports need to have low return pressure on them? i cant use the valve inline? directly at the head of my system?
you can tap off the pressure line providing your machines system is load sensing. The valves "T" port is full pump flow to tank on relief operation. The "DR" port is only for draining a small load sense signal to tank. The block should work with your load sensing pump providing that maximum flow rate and pressure that the saw block was initially designed for is meets the specifications of the system you are going to add the block too . You may run into issue if you need to do any combined operations. Due to load and pressure variations where all the flow may either go to the saw block function or all the flow goes to the machines hydraulic valve bank system.
Thanks that makes sense my system is pilot controled simple and I assume the swash plate will respond to pressure drops with adjustment automatically I appreciate your help. I am a good technician but with minimal experience on hydraulic design. your info is helpful i have an un used port on the work section look 4 sections back on the righ thand block. i was also considering getting flow from there. however it already has a pilot line on both sides of the spool. so i cant be sure it will stay flowing since one side is used it may have interruptions in fliow when the spool actuates. but i am not sure how it operates its also possible ist an intentional constant pressure source for aux functions. in my original diagram i circled it in blue . and the other side of spool is hooked into the other block to help with the highest volume cylinder on the machine. so its possible the port is just open all the time based on the spool design . just not sure. these machines had factory options for winches and hammers etc. so i assume they would build in a couple connections.
you may need a detailed hydraulic schematic to get a better idea of how the the valve banks integrate into each other. If you see your machine listed in one of the 2 pages then let me know which one you need and I can send you the diagrams I have for that model. Kind regards
sadly i am one generation previous... hs40 i think the hml 30 is similar hydraulics . i also found additional valve sections can be added voac hv05 valve is the moisioun tison hyd valves.
i have a couple places to attach thinking if i can attach to the puresrised main open center gallery i can minimise problems
If your machine has those types of valve banks installed then you have options for obtaining an aux pump supply. You can install a power beyond plug into any one of the 2 banks and use this to supply to an auxiliary control valve providing that one pumps flow is adequate to run your auxiliary function. The tank port from that bank would then be shifted to another T port as mentioned in your pdf. Unfortunately you wouldn't be able to use the Tigercat control block as that is for load sensing pumps and the HV05 in your pdf is for fixed or variable displacement pumps. I have attached the HML 31 hydraulic circuits but I'm not sure how close this diagram is in comparison to your machine set up. I had a look around for an HS40 hydraulic diagram but wasn't able to find anything unfortunately. Kind regards
You have been amazing and super helpful I was thinking of disabling the sense port on the Tigercat valve. and simplifying its operation as I dont need it to operate that way. The valve banks have independant drains tied together. and there is a backpressure rating for the drain. i intend on using one of the blocked ports on the end of the valve that is ysysaly used for adding on sections.
looking at diagram I could hook to the p2 port? but i think position 18 would make backpressure
Sorry I'm not sure of the diagram your referring too. If you get a time, upload the highlighted area that your suggesting. Kind regards
so i have two independant valves and 2 return to tank hoses with a dual pump now. each valve receives flow from one pump. i see the configuration with available connections of ml for line 3 in picture or gl open center line. right now my valves are independent . its possible they operate at different relief pressures. i am not sure how the cartridge in the tiger cat will work if the tank return side has system pressure on it. also if it returns to tank when not operating it will be dumping pressure to tank at all times thus destroying system pressure. will this be mitigated by connecting to the valve banks return to tank rather than a seperate line? if there is no flow to tank when off and if the accessory I want to run has a higher but nearly equal relief pressure. then the solution is simple connect to the main inlet before regulator the tiger cat valve wont flow over its relief if the other valve is relieving pressure. so when off it should not lower the system pressure.??? if both valves have a relief setting higher than my accessory. i don't know how to prevent the accessory's setting to return fluid back to tank before the relief in the existing valve is reached. thus bleeding off needed pressure so i was going to try and connect to the open center or the main line i should recieve regulated pressure the only way i see to solve this would be to either have an upstream solenoid block flow to valve or connect to the un used work section b port i have. that way the valve recieves no flow when off. or last add an auxillary section on to my bank but the only ones i can find are pilot operated so i still need to actuate the spool and if that can connect to the valve i have why cant the one i have from tiger cat
Thank you for the diagrams. I will try and get some circuit examples posted in the next couple of days to help with the setup you need. Kind regards
is there a way I can compensate you for the help looks like main blocks are set at 250 bar individual circuit relief varrys. section 4 of one of the blocks had a different center plug and an in used port as seen in these diagrams.
Hello Sir My apologies for the late reply and thankyou kindly for the offer, I'm always happy to help and supply information free of charge as I think sharing the knowledge is a good way of helping people from all walks of life. I have looked at how to incorporate your Tigercat valve into you current control valve for your hammer attachment. I have attached a circuit example and another valve bank cross section diagram for you to review and consider. Here is how the system would work and potential issues. A power beyond fitting would be installed into one of your two valve banks. This fitting will supply oil to the tiger cat valve and to your hammer. Standby operation When the hammer is not in use the T-Cat valves solenoid SV1 will always be powered on. This will allow the oil flow to return to Tank when none of the functions are in operation. The T-cat valves pilot to open check will set the back pressure on the pump when sitting in the standby state. To ensure no oil pressure is seen at the hammer, the check valve CV1 must be installed and its spring rating must be at least 30 psi higher than the Tcats PC1 pilot to open pressure. Hammer operation The power supply to SV1 is interrupted by a switch from the cab. this can be a joystick or foot pedal switch. When doing so the oil flow will be directed to the hammer via check valve CV1. The maximum hammer relief pressure will be set by the tiger cats relief RV1 when in operation and the relief valve setting should be at least 350 psi or more , below the main relief of the HV5. Combined operations Unfortunately there is now way to regulate the flow between functions when doing combined operation and the flow will go to the least line of resistance. As the hammer draws its flow from the Power beyond connection it will slow down when used in combined operations. Typically the hammer is loaded against the rock and then the hammer is activated so for this attachment it may not be a problem. Any function on the HV05 that is used while the hammer is activated will relieve at the main relief setting of the HV05. Any pressure in the hammer circuit will relive at the lower pressure set by the Tcats main relief RV1. Considerations 1) A power beyond fitting may be required for the HV05 valve bank in order for this circuit to work and an additional check valve (CV1) with a high enough hold back spring rating 2) If the power supply to SV1 is lost during normal standby operation then the main pump supply will go to full relief pressure of RV1 at the T cat valve and could overheat the hydraulic system. Note: the SV1 Cartridge may be able to be directly swapped out with a" Normally open" cartridge spool type that would prevent this from occurring. The SV1 coil would then not need to be powered all the time when the hammer is not in use. 3) Cannot do multiple operations 4) Only suited for single 1 way flow operation. There are many other combinations that can be applied but these would require additional control valves which will bring up the price of getting the attachment connected however it may offer more flexibility and control with integration to your existing system. I hope this may be of some help. Kind regards .
thanks i am working it over. i do have one empty work section on the block on the b side wondering if i can steal flow there. but without removing the spool and seeing how its built i dont think thats an option.
Ideal if you could use that spare function but it would probably need a pilot signal as well. I did see your post on the claystone your trying to break through, looks tough and abrasive, I'm no operator so i don't have any experience with that sort of stuff but I wondered if a ripper attachment would help break out some of the hard pack?
Your help has been invaluable and truly appreciated. Its rare to find such a knowledgeable and kind person on the internet. I have found that using your suggestion of finding a normally closed pilot operated cartridge for the tigercat valve is possible and will simplify my install. . The cartridge cost For the sun valve was quite high. but I was able to source this expansion section for about 100usd. given its compatibility being 100% with my system it seems to be the simpler and more robust option for a simple on off valve function. I just need to find or machine the power beyond adaptor for the hvo5 port. are there ballance considerations for the actuator spools? do i need to supply fluid to the opposite side of spool so that it will return to center? this is another area i am not sure of how to control the operation. I see some functions are already connected with a tee and i assume its to actuate multiple sections on the different banks. I hate to ask but i am on a shoe string budjet and the sun cartridge and the check valve were ballooning the costs. need a progressive control spool and i have two complete valve sections off a spare machine one section contained a spool for a motor control and i can transfer that spool into the body if it is needed. i am assuming I could just plumb in pilot pressure off the pilot supply and switch that with a small simple solenoid valve? Any tips on how to plumb the pilot circuit to control this spool
Its no problem at all and I'm always happy to help where I can. If you have a control valve slice with a motor spool that you can add to one of the two valve banks then this will be much better in terms of progressive control for a single or double acting attachment. The Hv05 is spring centered to its neutral(off) position. To operate the spool function requires a proportional pilot pressure to one of the end caps while the opposite end cap pressure must be drained to tank. When in neutral both endcaps must not have any pilot pressure that is higher than your systems hydraulic tank pressure. Unfortunately cost may still be an issue because you would need to plumb up a pilot remote control valve to operate the spare hv05 valve slice or spool. This remote pilot can be a proportional solenoid control type or a mechanical lever type control. You can also get a on/off solenoid type but it will not allow for progression. Proportional solenoid set ups are still the most expensive and they usually require an electrical amplifier/Driver module to control the solenoids and a proportional joystick control switch or slide. Manual pedal or lever type hydraulic remote pilot controls can also be expensive but you could possibly find one out of a wrecked machine On/off solenoid control valves such as a Cetop 3 unit with port block would probably be the cheapest out of the 3 options but not by much. Another option is to use some 4 way manual ball valves and divert from a piloted function that would not be in use when you have to use your attachment but you would have to manually switch these 2 valves over every time. The last option I can think off is that you can use a 6way solenoid or manually operated diverter valve. It can divert from a function you would not use to the attachment and requires the least amount of plumbing but can also be expensive in cost as they go up in size to accommodate for different flow rate specifications. let me know if you need any drawings for a specific pilot set up you would want to run with. Kind regards
see above changes.
ok great i actually have a spare machine and 3 spare foot pedals which are like the hydraulic remote. and i have a pedal bank on the machine which may currently have a single un used pedal position. now that i looked harder and changed languages..... edit... i am an idiot... these machines often had winches on them and the middle pedal name is bonus function? what i dont understand is how both blocks have something to do with them . and the pilot line is teed into the telescope pilot line. this is the section of the block that does not have an a and a b function.. i was so concerned with getting a 22gpm function high flow valve i dident even think about my existing auxillary functions. i believe i have lines and a connected pedal for a un needed spool.... are there any better diagrams i need to show you for you to explain how this functions.. you have inspired me to help others where i have experience and i am assisting another party right now with their powershift. your kindness is contagious...
in one picture you can see the capped port hex plug in one diagram the bonus section is listed on two blocks my machine has tilt bucket and telescope on other pedals so i am iclined to believe i only have one free section. if i have two free sections i might want to combine them together to maximise flow from both pumps.
Thank you for the diagrams, they are a big help in piecing together the set up and a picture of the valve banks helps confirm what you have installed to what is on the diagrams. I'm taking a bit of a guess here but from what I can see from your pictures it looks like the machine may use the telescope function for an auxiliary function as well. This function would also be 2 pump flow for one direction only as the telescope function pilot line has a T connection (you circled in yellow on your diagram) which activates 2 spools, the "Telescopic" spool and the "addition"/spare spool (Zusatz). You may have or should hopefully have a 3 way ball valve somewhere on the machine that tees into the " A " hose line that goes to the telescope cylinder. When you switch this valve over you have a one-way tandem pump flow to an auxiliary line connection and you cancel the telescopic operation. The telescopic "A" side on the valve bank has a port relief of 160 bar shown on your diagram so this would be the maximum working pressure for the attachment for one way flow. (my assumption based on pictures) Going by the hose diagram it looks like the tee fitting in the pilot line connection has a check/metering valve (item 69) which is the "x" shown in the diagram inside the yellow circle you outlined. This check valve would allow the pilot hose on the spare spool to drain to tank when not in use and it may also meter in the pilot pressure so that the pump flow from the spare function is applied in a controlled way that brings in a combined 2 pump flow more progressively. The check/metering valve can be omitted and you may just have a tee connection on the pilot hose. If you need any diagrams drawn up to help clarify my guess work above, let me know and I can draw up how I think your current system would work. Hopefully if I'm right then you may have the majority of what you need already fitted to your machine, i.e spare spool with 2 pump flow, pilot control valve/pedal and a 3 way valve for changing between telescopic and aux one way supply. Glad to hear you are also helping out people with technical issues and sharing your knowledge which is priceless. Nice one.