Hello all, Looking for advice from 'experienced' hands here. I'm gathering parts for a one and a half ton build. I'm building a truck that I hope will have range. I need it to be able to haul equipment when necessary but I also want to do 70mph on the interstate comfortably. Here's the question : should I consider using an auxiliary transmission (e.g. a Brownie box) or go straight to a 13 speed? I have seat time in a 13 speed and have an idea of how one would perform in the application I have in mind, I have no experience with the auxiliary transmission/Brownie box. What advice can you all share on the Brownies? Thanks! o.
What motor? Rear end ratio? If you used an auxiliary what trans would be in front of it? What are you hauling? Honestly a gear vendors overdrive might be a good choice. A 13 over would need air if you don’t have it, might have to swap bellhousings etc depending on the motor. Auxiliaries are also their own challenge between required mounts and getting driveline angles right. The old brownies are getting harder to find not to mention parts for them are getting scarce. Anything bigger would be overkill and take a fair amount of HP to run. A 13 would take a few extra HP to turn as well.
Well to be polite--your trying to do what everyone wants and stay away from a CDL, correct. 1.5 ton with a bunch of gears that will crawl, pull a 35' goose neck and still do 70 to the grocery store, loaded. This has been done/tried before---but sounds as though you have already started so work away. It takes torque in a wide band and allot of it to achieve that goal. *
This is a 2013 F-650 Ford medium duty. It has a V-10 gasoline engine and six speed automatic transmission. I cut this truck down from a 26' "Budget" rental van and installed the flatbed and gooseneck hitch to make it usable to the dealership. That 8070 Allis-Chalmers tractor on the gooseneck trailer is ballasted in all six tires; it is heavy. I hauled this tractor almost 330 miles one way. I think that tractor was pushing 27,000# the way it was set up and the truck really had no problems handing it. Here is a link: TractorData.com Allis Chalmers 8070 tractor dimensions information www.tractordata.com The truck will run through 80mph with ease too. Not sure you are going to use a 1-1/2 ton truck harder than this but these photos are not the first get go, nor the last since the photos were snapped. I've had 8970 New Holland tractors on with duals front and rear too picked up and delivered the same way though not near that distance.
I would stick with what the factory engineers designed. JMO
Second that. Unless you have lots of time and money, you probably cannot beat a building with over 1000 automotive engineers designing. But, if this is a hobby project, I don't thing adding a brownie is feasible with the length of the driveline. But, what do I know.
I have a good DT360. Currently paired with a 5 Speed (no overdrive) hence looking into options. Hauling is pretty limited to my equipment, none of which is going to scare anyone on this site. When working it will be pulling digging equipment. Right now that's a mini excavator and a tractor (can fit both on my 26 ft trailer), in the future I might put a bigger tractor or a skid steer on there. Weight-wise it's not going to scare anyone on this page (probably never anything over 25k lbs including the trailer weight). Needing air is not a problem. Driveline angles might be. o.
I appreciate your direct approach. Yes, it is a bit of a unicorn project, no issue acknowledging that. Sometimes it is easier to go and buy whatever you need off the shelf and be done with it. This is a project / build so the target and purpose is a little different. The engine I want to use has a decent power band and I know it can handle the loads I will be putting behind it. In the setup I've used before the limiting factor was the lack of overdrive so I'm addressing that in the newer configuration. o.
Looks like a good build, very nice! I definitely will not be using the truck harder than that, holy crap those are some loads. o.
building something divorced like that can be a great can of worms unless that is what you do. Driveline angles and dynamic resonance and mounting fabrication, get it wrong and it is plagued with troubles. The guys that do this right are few and far between. When you get done, a brownie makes a heck of a racket in the best of conditions.
Thanks - I understand this is not the cheapest / most efficient road but I've been building cars and trucks for the last 30 years, not going to just turn that off. This is a project build, there will be compromises no doubt but I think I can get it done and come up with something that will work for me. I have the 'buy stock' voice in my thoughts here and there but I have yet to find the truck that meets my needs/purposes in stock guise. o.
I'm aware of the challenges of drive angles, have no experience with Brownies so I appreciate you passing that along. All the info I've been able to find on them is via YouTube and forum posts, neither of which is like being in the truck and feeling it personally. o.
A good chassis all around is either a 4700, or 4900 series International. Easy to get into and out of with good visibility and road manners. If it were me and I had a known good DT-360 engine I'd go with a single over, or direct nine speed small Fuller transmission myself. The 13 speeds are nice but not needed and really no advantage to gain with your application. A 3.55, or 3.73 ratio rear and a single over, or direct drive transmission will carry you through your desired parameters.
Most times it's not going you need to worry about, it's stopping.
Nice rig, Oifla. Looks like She gets er’ done. If you do put two boxes in her, make sure to go with tall sticks with sparkly plastic handles.
Either of those chassis have adequate braking capacity for the task(s) presented in my opinion. I've owned and operated both series much heavier than the proposals, but with the DT-466 engine. However my driving style is not of an aggressive stance usually. Another transmission that is nice is an RTL0-14610 series which is commonly referred to as a "Super 10". These are smooth and quiet to operate with good gear spacing. Finding the series with an SAE #2 bell will be easy as they were common.
I hate 10 speeds with a passion. The pattern hurts my brain after learning on an 18 and running those patterns for years (18, 13, 8ll, 9, etc). Even 5&4 makes or Mack 12 speed make more sense to me
I have a couple of the Mack 12, and 10 speeds and like them very well. Basically the five reverse speeds are nice. Also have Fuller 13 speeds and like them also. Only have a single Fuller nine speed and it's older but very smooth in power application behind a 6V-92TA engine. (Better stop talking about that one before TS starts drooling). The Super 10 is great if maintained and doesn't have that knee slamming position on the upshift for sixth gear. Not rowing the shifter has it's advantages but they do take some getting used to without doubt. Same with the Mack 10, and 12 speed TRD-107X series.
Two speed rearend might fit the need if one can even be found.
Then you need the correct transmission to take advantage of that design. Like a "root cellar" in the yard, or "ice box" in the house to store and keep food fresh, this is all old technology that still works but not much desire for any longer. An automatic transmission installed behind that engine would make it more pleasant to drive and work just as hard when needed.
Is it that big of a deal to have a truck license in the USA? When I turned 16 I wrote a test, got my permit, 3 months later I took a road test, and could drive a car. When I turned 18, I wrote another test, and got my permit. 2 days later, I took a road test, and I got my Class one license with an air brake endorsement. Every 2 years I had to pay money and get a new card, and every 6 I had to get a new medical. Since I turned 45 I have to do the medical every 4, and once I am 60, it will be a medical every time I renew. The medical is like 50 bucks, can I see, can I hear, just asks, no testing. Am I diabetic, have I had a heart attack, do I have all my limbs, and am I on any meds that could compromise my ability to drive?
Cuttin, the issue of a CDL or no CDL has nothing to do with my wanting to build this truck this way. Getting a CDL is not a big deal here (Indiana) and if I didn't have farm plates on our big dump truck, I'd get one without issue. But I don't work that truck commercially (mostly sits around except for actual farm and homestead maintenance) and nothing else that I drive / pull requires it. o.
I may have missed it, but what is the actual truck model/chassis that you are trying to build? There is a big difference in trying to fit this stuff in a pickup (F450-550) and a class 6 medium duty. And is all this to get under CDL?
Not only your post . I have read other posts where people want to avoid CDL. Thought it was a big deal.
The license, insurance, scale house, HOS, getting violated without lube by the DOT for a burned out clearance light, etc are the real headache
A class 1 in my area of BC is about $13,000. (140 hour MELT course)—Mandatory entry-level Training.
Really? I got my class one 33 years ago. Wrote my permit, $15.00 on a Monday. They were booked up, so I had to wait till Wednesday to do my road test, and $25.00 later, I was good to go. Oh and my medical back then was $35.00
It was similar here in BC 40 yrs ago except I had to take an 16 hr air brake coarse for about ($75?). I was on the path then there was a job change and I never did get the time off to do the road test.
Farm plates or commercial plates both equally require a CDL on a rig requiring one and you could get one at one time with either plates cause I did it with farm plates. Now it's mandatory 60 to 160 hours depends on which class CDL you get.
I got my class b, straight trucks, in 06-07 for $35-45, now to get my a to do combination I need 40 hours class time and the cheapest offered us around $2000 for that. I'm sure that class time is no better than just reading the book. Around here if you don't get in a wreck for farm use you probably can get by with no CDL
Kansas used to have a non-commercial class A for farmers and others who didn't need to cross state lines. No idea if it still exists after pete bu**plug screwed up the cdl regs trying to eliminate trucks.
I doubt it. I'm pretty sure they still have farm permits for kids though
Yes, really pricey now. We only haul our own machines a few times a year so with an air brake endorsement we use a single axle 1999 international 9200 to haul our small equipment (heaviest is a Deere 50d). We hire out lowbedding for the big stuff. Trailer must scale less than 4600kg and electric brakes.
CDL's Again----**** the bed, the only thing you needed to know to get a CDL when I got mine was remember the words to this song and ten bucks got you a license. *
I loved doing the CDL test so much I went and did it twice.
Got my Class "D" license on my 18th b'day long before the CDL program came to be. Was grandfathered into it and have always kept it, needed or not. Medical has also been kept current through the years. I have been told there is no waiver for the classroom instruction portion of the current training requirements to gain CDL, but a fully licensed CDL holder can do the driving instruction and sign off on this portion. Nothing official I've read but this is what I have been told.
Can't even recall what I drove when I got my truck driving licence at age 20, it must have been a borrowed roadworthy truck! - but it sure wasn't my old R190 and ancient WW2 Trailmobile trailer - because the Trailmobile had no brakes, and I couldn't even find any parts to fix them. So I ran it like that for about 7 years, before I could afford a new trailer. Driving around loaded with a Cat D6 or D7 behind you, and no trailer brakes, sure teaches you how to drive carefully! Luckily it was all low-population rural country, so no real traffic to speak of. But I had 2 years truck driving experience without a truck licence, before I could get "legal", because the age restriction for a truck licence was 20 back then. Now you can get one here at age 18. I can recall old-timers telling me how they'd be hauling wheat in the farm truck in the 30's and 40's, at age 14, and the local policeman would stop them in town, and say, "How old are you, son? Do you have a truck driving licence?" "I'm 14, Sir, and no, I don't have licence of any kind!" "Well, you can't keep driving around without a licence! Come on up to the police station, and I'll write one out for you!"